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seedlings
I've been partly out of commission since yesterday when I installed ubuntu.

Remember back in '82 wen 640x480 was the bomb? Well, it sucks now. I can't get my inbred (onboard) nvidia geforce4 ghetto emachine out of 1982 mode.

Anyway... back to the ubuntu forums...

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
dBndbit
Chad, very interesting that you should have a problem like that.

First let me admit I really, really do not like Microsoft, their business practices and/or their programming philosophies. And I really, really want Linux to be a successful alternative to Windows.

But the silly problem you found with the screen resolution is exactly why I've never fully switched to Linux. I've tried six different distributions over the last decade+, and they all were "unfinished". They contained "simple" hurdles in their installation or use that were brick walls to a casual user. And I unfortunately had frequent bad experiences when seeking help. There are so many great things about Linux, yet it is frustrating.

Even so, I did order an ubuntu disk. If it works without hurdles I'll send them a contribution for a job well done. ...still hoping for some competition to Microsoft's customer domination.
Jim
11 years old... forever!
ReeferDoor.com
>home-built roasters and fair trade
Koffee Kosmo
Chad
Another option is Freespire it is another linux OS but looks and runs like Windows

Take a look
http://wiki.frees..._Freespire

KK
Edited by Koffee Kosmo on 01/19/2009 5:18 AM
I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
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Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
seedlings
Jim, ubuntu ran just fine from the disc. We went here and there without any trouble, so that's why I decided to make the switch. First thing you have to do is use their partitioning "wizard". Well, it's automatically supposed to leave a Windows partition. That didn't work for me, and after multiple tries, I moved all my important stuff to the second (of three) partitions on my harddrive, then wiped out the first partition with XP. After a couple of hours, I figured out how ubuntu wanted it's partition and "swap area" to work, and finally it "loaded".

I found a "fix" for the monitor problem, which was typing a whole bunch of different commands from a couple of related threads. I can't say what the problem was. One guy on the ubuntu forums said that I must have loaded a very old driver.

Anyway, I got up to 1024x768, and it seemed to be working, so I selected the next option higher. Bad idea. My monitor immediately blanked out, telling me the signal was OUT OF RANGE. So, I waited, thinking that ubuntu would revert back if I didn't push enter or anything. Nope.

I spent about 5 hours yesterday on it. My gradeschool solution was to hold down Ctrl and then smash all the keys as I waved my hand over the keyboard. I eventually hit one that brought the screen back! I did the smashing wave a couple of more times and found that holding Ctrl and the "+" sign increased the screen, and Ctrl and "-" decreased it. The + and - signs were on the number keypad, not the ones by "Backspace".

After all that, my wife went to a few of her sites that provide coupons and things like that. Of course their "you can only print one" software is exclusive to Windows. Go figure. Tonight XP returns (with a wink and a prayer).

Ubuntu didn't even really look like it did when running from the CD. Once loaded, I found that the windows no longer had a "x" to close in the upper-right, and I couldn't resize windows. They were either maximized or minimized. Sometimes a window would open and the "file edit view..." buttons would be empty of words. Kinda reminded me of how Windows runs.

If I were the programmer type, this would probably be an awesome system, but when every website uses a bunch of flash players, and most plugins aren't available for linnux (according to AdobeFlash website), I can't see how a lot of people use this.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
seedlings
Edward, I have an eMachine D3024. In your free time, look this over and see if you think it should work with PCLinuxOS - click on the specifications to see the el-cheap-o innards. I have replaced the power supply and hard drive already, though.

http://emachines....odel=D3024

Florida sounds great to me!

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
dBndbit
Edward,
A sack of beans for help making Linux work? Open-source bartering? Maybe there's not as much difference between Linux and Microsoft as I thought.
:P
Jim
11 years old... forever!
ReeferDoor.com
>home-built roasters and fair trade
opus
Chad, here is another for you to try: http://www.thinkgos.com/

I've used it. A good part of it is web-based.

My best suggestion [puts on fire suit] buy a Mac and be done.
seedlings
"Had" ubuntu working. Edward, the coupon printing worked exactly one time. I couldn't get Wine operating properly either, all the words on every Wine screen were jumbled and unreadable. I uninstlalled/reinstalled Wine and the "coupon printer' several times with no success.

After making all the ubuntuforum angry (very serious, that crowd), I tried to go back to XP last night. Something went wrong and the install kept bombing out... I may have lost the only thing I desparately wanted to keep, all the family pictures since Digital cameras were invented. I'd moved them all to the second of 3 partitions...

In my very humble and woefully inexperienced opinion, if there are ANY websites/services you CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT who do not support Linux, it may be a headache to you. Granted, those sites are hooked on microsoft because they can store info on your computer, sometimes maliciously. I suspect they like that, and Linux poses a threat? I dunno.

My wife is off today and is using ubuntu running off the CD only, just so she can use the internet.

I have the greatest respect for you Uber-computer folks! (Just don't lose your sense of humor, though)

CHAD

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
dBndbit
Just to add to the saga, I sent off for the free CD. It arrived in just under 4 weeks, not bad. However, the CD had one error and the load failed. After cleaning with the kit (bought for all the Blockbuster and Netflix DVDs that don't work) I did get one good load. But it wasn't recognizing my password for modifications. Further cleaning didn't get me any more good loads even after I used the ultimate cleaning fluid - pepperoni grease from the morning pizza. It has the perfect index of refraction.

So I did the long download {699MB} from the Ubuntu website and made my own 8.10 loader CD. It worked just fine.

However, I can't figure out how to mount the floppy drive. It never shows up on any directory and the disk mount utility refuses to load on any panels. The drive was functioning under the previous software. The network card in my test machine has a Linux driver on a floppy. If I can't load it I can't get on the web. Maybe I can get some online help from the Ubuntu support forum (using this Win laptop). For some reason it would irk me to have to dig out and hook-up my (even older) machine just to transfer the floppy driver files to a CD.
Edited by dBndbit on 02/15/2009 8:22 PM
Jim
11 years old... forever!
ReeferDoor.com
>home-built roasters and fair trade
Koffee Kosmo
You can go to the Bios (Re boot and make a change) if the mode or modes required are available... in this order

1: Check your bios for start with usb drive as #1 setting ect

2: XP or Vista ? What SP ?

3: How much RAM... There is a known bug and hot fix if you have more than 2 gig mem

KK
I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
https://forum.hom...ad_id=1142

https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
bvwelch
I'd be happy to try and help you-- several things to try, I'll list a few here but feel free to send me PM.

The floppy should be automatically mounted, and an ICON appear on your desktop.

How about a USB thumbdrive?

Very surprised that the ethernet card isn't already supported.

If none of the above is helpful, maybe these steps will be useful.

bring up a 'terminal' from the accessories menu.

type 'mount'
this should list everything that is already mounted.
type 'cd /media'
then type 'ls'

you should see the floppy listed there, probably already mounted but if not, you could try:

mount /dev/fd0 /media/floppy

Other commands that may be helpful:

cat /proc/devices

dmesg

or dmesg | grep -i floppy

also

dmesg |grep -i eth
Edited by bvwelch on 02/15/2009 8:40 PM
dBndbit
Thanks for the help, guys. But I think you either missed my point or you're helping to make my point: Help with these simple obvious things like screen resolution and floppy disks shouldn't be needed in the first place. A piece of "finished" software offered as part of a commercial venture should be more polished than this.

My first tip-off that this was not a user-ready distribution was all the unacknowledged keyboard/mouse entries - where I would click the mouse or hit the enter key and nothing would happen. It makes the user think he should hit the keys again. That's just plain poor (unfinished) programming. Windows loading has been guilty of this as well in a few cases.

I'm familiar with the mount command from several early Linux distros. ---PLEASE DON'T BE INSULTED BY THIS--- but when discussing a non-guru user-friendly operating system we have to strongly fight the urge to tell somebody that the solution to their problem is all the command line entries Chad mentioned for the video and/or:

"mount /dev/fd0 /media/floppy"

We should be ready to admit that maybe Ubuntu is a powerful and free OS but it's still not quite user-ready. (like all other Linux distros I've tried) I'm definitely no fan of Microsoft, but I'm still frustrated by Linux in that, even after all this time, nobody seems to have produced a full-feature finished product for the non-technical public. I'm a dreamer, still hoping for some competition for Windows.

Jim
11 years old... forever!
ReeferDoor.com
>home-built roasters and fair trade
bvwelch
Jim,

While I can appreciate your desire for a powerful and free alternative to Windows, it can't happen - at least not in the way you seem to be looking for.

What I mean is, after 30 years of programming computers for a living, it is still an extremely error-prone and tedious process.

Why? Lots of reasons, but for example in your case, you expect 'free' software to work perfectly, with a grab-bag random assortment of plug-in cards, boards, media, etc that you've collected, say, over the past twenty years.

Another reason, for Linux in particular, is that with 'free OS', every 'software dude' in college wants to make his or her 'mark', and so there are literally hundreds of thousands of people making changes daily.

Here's a link to a reference document on just the kernel itself. Take look- note that it is an interactive page, so click around on it. http://www.makeli...kernel_map

My two cents-- The apple line of computers is great because for most of its history, there were very few makes/models available, so testing, testing, and more testing, was possible.

Windows was fairly reliable because the OS was made available cheaply to OEMs who did testing, testing, testing.

The least successful situation is one where you mix and match your own custom box-- it also happens to be my favorite, but it is not easy to get up and running.

I still strive to produce systems and software that is easy as, say, borrowing a friend's car and driving away without a thought. But even that example isn't as valid as it used to be-- try renting a new car, late at night at an airport parking lot. Can we even find the ignition? :-)

By the way, if you are still reading this, the only Linux distro I know of, whose goal is to work on nearly any/every random assortment of parts, is Knoppix. It still isn't perfect though.

As far as I can tell, Ubuntu's goal is more of the 'userland' experience -- applications, updates, etc, but not necessarily ease of initial hardware installation.
-bill
Edited by bvwelch on 02/16/2009 9:53 AM
opus

Quote

bvwelch wrote:


Another reason, for Linux in particular, is that with 'free OS', every 'software dude' in college wants to make his or her 'mark', and so there are literally hundreds of thousands of people making changes daily.

Here's a link to a reference document on just the kernel itself. Take look- note that it is an interactive page, so click around on it. http://www.makeli...kernel_map

-bill


Bill,

One of the best reasons that Linux isnt as great as people think. Another thing with Linux is that [see if I can phrase this right], its a whole bunch of things tacked on. Take for instance FreeBSD, which is what I used for a desktop for years and still use for my servers. It is a complete kernel built from the ground up. With that being said, its not for the faint of heart if you want a GUI. I think FBSD is the best OS to be found. Heck, Apple peeled it off and took it from there.
I've been Mac for work stations for many years now. I make my money off Windows though, so I cant complain about it too much. If it wasnt for all the weaknesses in MS, I wouldnt have much work.
bvwelch
My previous post sounds defensive. Let me try again.

How do you know if a piece of hardware is 'supported' by Ubuntu, or Linux in general?

0) It was purchased, new, as a turn-key system, at least six months ago, but not more than two years ago. A google search for Linux or Ubuntu and the make/model number shows lots of happy owners.

0.5) It does not require secret driver code or firmware, unpublished from the manufacturer.

1) It is relatively new, and the manufacturer actually wants it to be supported by Linux, and pays an employee to make it happen. Even so, it better not require 'secret' code. I'm not saying that I personally care, but most 'open source' developers do care very much.

2) Some university campus purchased a large quantity of the hardware, and pays someone on staff to make it happen

3) Like #2 above, but some students are intrigued and make it happen.

4) It is an old piece of hardware, but someone who owns the item, and has the expertise, the interest, and the spare time, makes it happen.

5) It is a clone or 'compatible' with some previous make/model of hardware.

If none of the above, it cannot possibly work. Unless-- someone takes the time to find someone who is willing to help make it work. This might involve searching the internet, logging on to forums, mailing the item to a willing and capable developer, and possibly paying someone to make it work. Tasty homeroast might be an excellent form of compensation. :-)

-bill
Free software is great if you can afford it!
Edited by bvwelch on 02/16/2009 10:53 AM
bvwelch
Opus,

You're right about Linux having a 'whole bunch of things tacked on'. When it came first came out, it was just over 10,000 lines of code. Ten years later it was 2,000,000 lines of code, and last December it was over 10,000,000 lines of code!

http://en.wikiped...nux_kernel

I got my start back when Unix wasn't free. A good taste of how simple life was back then, and I think a fun, but geeky read, is this commentary:

http://en.wikiped...ource_Code

It has been said that 10,000 lines of source code is about the limit that one person can really 'understand'. The commentary listed above is about 10,000 lines.

While I do think FreeBSD is a fine system, I must point out that it is anything but 'built from the ground up'.

A brief but reasonable history is here:

http://en.wikiped...ki/FreeBSD


-bill
Free Software is great if you can afford it!
Edited by bvwelch on 02/16/2009 11:19 AM
opus
10M lines...wow!!

I knew I wouldnt phrase it right. You got my point though. :) I've only been using it since 4.7 I think.

This is what I was trying to say:

"FreeBSD is developed as a complete operating system. The kernel, device drivers and all of the userland utilities, such as the shell, are held in the same source code revision tracking tree, whereas with Linux distributions, the kernel, userland utilities and applications are developed separately, then packaged together in various ways by others."
Koffee Kosmo
Thanks Edward for the link & info
I will book mark the site and revisit often to see if the latest version is available to download

Question
How does PC Linux compare to Ubuntu
Does it have the ability to run from a 200+gig USB hard drive??
(Thus no need to partition the windows hard drive)
How trouble free is it

I have always wanted to try a Linux OS but found them a little wanting and not as easy as windows
However the latest batch/s of Linux OS is getting close

I have downloaded Ubuntu 8.1 a while ago I have used the live CD but not installed it as yet (should I ??)


KK

I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
https://forum.hom...ad_id=1142

https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
bvwelch
Greetings Edward,

I enjoy reading your posts very much! Thanks for taking the time to go into detail.

When you have a moment, I would love to hear more details about which applications you are using for multimedia recording, editing, etc.

Also, I'd love to hear more of your views of pclinuxos versus Ubuntu, without the references to Windows-- you and I both agree that we like Linux-based systems. :-)

I like KDE fine, probably better than Gnome. Both have been around a long time.

You like Synaptic, and so do I, very much.

I would like to mention a few things, based on your post. You probably already know these things, but perhaps other readers will find them useful.

Synaptic is a great tool, and was developed for Debian systems, and later ported to RedHat/Fedora, etc. systems. So I am glad to hear that it is available on pclinuxos.

I use Synaptic on Ubuntu all the time, it is the standard tool for adding/removing packages after the initial installation is finished. By the way, Synaptic makes use of 'Apt', which was also originally developed for Debian. Redhat used to require the 'rpm' program. Not my favorite.

KDE is also available as the Ubuntu desktop -- you can either load KUbuntu distro to start with, or you can add the KDE desktop by means of Synaptic, if you already have Gnome and want to get rid of it.

So, it sounds like I should try your pclinuxos, and maybe you should give Kubuntu a try. I suspect they are closer to being the same, than they first appear!

Thanks for writing!
-bill

dBndbit
No argument on the difficulties of open-source development. But some of the individual contributions, especially in hardware interfaces, should be cumulative. Just gather all the drivers for monitors, video cards, sound cards, network cards, etc. and add them to the option lists. The Linux community allows for this. The difficulties are not so impossible that there are not some examples of success.

I have a 3-year old copy of Fedora 5 (and some much older Redhat distros) that also sees the 800x600 limit. But during the load AND on the GUI menus they offer a long list of optional monitors to step up the resolution. The older Corel distro also offered monitor options.

I just reloaded the Fedora 5 after trying Ubuntu 8.10 and Fedora immediately picked up my floppy drive which Ubuntu completely ignored. Ubuntu isn't evil, it just seems less finished (after 8 versions) than other "free" distros even though the company is making big bucks off Linux business systems. I've ordered a new Fedora DVD ($10) to see if it's improved yet more. (also one for Cent, Suse, and Mandrivia)

In my exposure to Linux I would have expected to see two types: a confused spaghetti-code type from the free geek crowd; and a polished organized type from the retail$ crowd like Mandrake/Corel/Redhat. But in fact I never saw much difference. I had just as much trouble with all the little omissions in the for-$$ distros as I did with the free ones.

But it's been a few years and I need to re-look at all the new options. I'll try PCLinuxOS (thanks Edward)! But I think I'm also going to like the new Fedora.
Jim
11 years old... forever!
ReeferDoor.com
>home-built roasters and fair trade
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