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Roast Profiling for dummies?
smatty1
I came across something the other day where someone was suggesting that Yemens like a s-l-o-w r-o-a-s-t. It got me thinking about roast profiles again. I tend to get a root profile and stick with it.
I'm wondering if there is a kind of document out there with "root" profiles for different coffees.... Say African, Central am, South am, indonesian, etc.
Anyone care to put one together if there isnt already one!?:)
Edited by seedlings on 04/08/2010 8:26 AM
Koffee Kosmo
It mainly depends on these factors

1) The growing conditions eg high, low, dry, wet ect
2) The processing method
3) Roasting Method

As a rule of thumb the harder & drier the bean the longer time is required to roast

Re the Yemeni beans
13 to 14 minutes to first crack + 6 Min to second crack

Hard dry beans also take some time to degas up to 14 days before they exhibit there full rich flavour

Some Sumatrans (wet hulled & processed) if roasted to quickly (less than 9 min to first crack) will give off a very our taste/flavour

One other point
4) Some beans are suited for
Blends, espresso, plunger/drip

Thats when experience comes into the equation
Hope that helps

KK



I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
https://forum.hom...ad_id=1142

https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
John Despres
Add to KK's comments this about softer beans.

Softer, low growns like Kona, need slighlty lower heat applied gently with steady increases. First should arrive 11 - 12 minutes.

Now the soft yet huge Pacamara beans will take longer because they're so big. First at about 12 - 13 minutes.

Apply KK's advice whenever you see SHG (Strictly high grown) or SHB (Strictly hard bean)

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
seedlings
The softer/lower grown/wet process beans need more time (couple of minutes) from start-of-roast to yellowish-color than hard/high/dry beans.

Faster times from yellow beans to first crack give more acidic snap (not bad acid, good, like fruit & wine), and slower times from yellow to 1C give mellower, nutty overtones.

CHAD
Edited by seedlings on 07/23/2009 8:57 AM
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
John Despres
CHAD, you da man.
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
smatty1

Quote

seedlings wrote:
The softer/lower grown/wet process beans need more time (couple of minutes) from start-of-roast to yellowish-color than hard/high/dry beans.

Faster times from yellow beans to first crack give more acidic snap (not bad acid, good, like fruit & wine), and slower times from yellow to 1C give mellower, nutty overtones.

CHAD

I think the gene cafe is somewhat limited in ramp time. C1 is pretty much always @12.5 mins and 460ish. Just a minute or so pause by the 300 for 5 min phase. ...
endlesscycles

Quote

smatty1 wrote:
I came across something the other day where someone was suggesting that Yemens like a s-l-o-w r-o-a-s-t. It got me thinking about roast profiles again. I tend to get a root profile and stick with it.
I'm wondering if there is a kind of document out there with "root" profiles for different coffees.... Say African, Central am, South am, indonesian, etc.
Anyone care to put one together if there isnt already one!?:)


I noticed this, too, when I had a problem with my roaster resulting in four or five unplanned minutes on a Yemen batch, and.....wow, it was unbelievably good! Every other Yemen roast had (and has) been flat in comparison.

Note to self...put trust in results.
-Marshall Hance
Asheville, NC
seedlings
Where do you add the time? Just a more gradual temperature increase than normal?

I've had some Yemens and thought, "Meh".

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
David

Quote

seedlings wrote:Where do you add the time? Just a more gradual temperature increase than normal?
I've had some Yemens and thought, "Meh".

I believe that it is best added right around the first of the yellowing stage, the "drying" stage. I do it by slowing the rate of temperature increase, sorta like between 1C and 2C. I back the heat gun away from the beans with the bread machine or turn the burners down slightly with the drum roast before going back the the base profile. I keep track of how long the delay is and adjust it according to the bean.

The profile has two "plateaus." Not flat plateaus, but the slope of the temperature rise flattens out twice.

Some folks start their drum out at a lower preheat temp in order to extend the roast, but I don't know which way is better. In any case, it's about getting the heat all the way to the center of the bean.

My .02 USD
Edited by David on 07/24/2009 2:47 PM
bvwelch
This is very educational! Please keep the good tips coming! -bill
DaveG
KK mentions that hard beans can take up to 14 days rest to fully bloom.
I've not let any coffee rest that long and would like to know what varieties I should let rest the 14 days. I'm probably missing something here by not knowing that they should have that amount of time to rest.
Koffee Kosmo
Mostly African beans Dave

I roast my beans darker for use in my espresso machine
From experience
Kenyan, Ethiopian, & Yemen need the longest rest time

However if you roast lighter for syphon or similar the rest times will differ a little

KK
I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
https://forum.hom...ad_id=1142

https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
debinnv
Thank you all for the info. This is just what I have been looking for. Once I get a roaster up and operating again I need to pay attention to this. I don't think there is too much you can do with a popcorn popper as far as adjusting heat etc etc. Well maybe there is but I am not that good with modifying stuff (lol)
DavidG
So I went looking for some threads on profile preheat, drying times, ramp rates into 1C, ramp rates through 1C, ramp rates from 1C to 2C.

My first 1.5 years roasting was using modded poppers (but not PID'd). I now am starting, in earnest, my BM/HG work.

All temps bean temp. BM preheated to 275F via BM heater and also HG on high. HG on high, switched to low after 1C. BM heater left on for entire roast duration.

1 180
2 242
3 290
4 313
5 340
6 371
7 399
7:30 408 1C
8 410
9 415
10 429
10:50 448 2C
11 450
11:20 452 drop

Ave degrees/min through 1C = 36.5F
Ave degrees/min from 1C to 2C = 12.75F
Time from 1C start to 2C start = 3:20

So, based on the prior posts to this thread, your next question is, David, what bean are you roasting. Brazil Moreninha Foremosa Raisin, from CHAD. Which, I understand to be a softer bean (the coffee, generally speaking.

I am looking for your help, your critique and your suggestions on my profile.

Wrong preheat?
More drying time?
Slower ramp through drying and yellowing?
Stretch distance from 1C to 2C?

(Also, if I just missed a thread, and all this is ground already well-trod, please point me to the link(s)... )

Thanks much for any thoughts,

DavidG
europiccola | yama + coryrod | chemex | AP | clever
wbp1 | wepp1 | bm/hg | co hybrid (still coming soon...)
seedlings
David, your times look a little fast from start to first crack. How about HG Low for 3 minutes, then finish the roast as you did. The second crack at 448 seems high, where on my setup where I get outliers at 435 and starting to roll at 440.

I try to get around 6F/min after first crack, maybe kill the BM heater? But, then, my coffee doesn't cup so well :)

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
bvwelch
Oddly enough, I'm envious - my setup isn't nearly so fast as yours. I wish it was. :-)

Let's assume your readings are 10 degrees higher than what we may consider 'normal' (kind of a joke but that's another story)

Then, that would mean 4 minutes from start to 300, which I think is great. Sometimes you might want a bit more drying time, so see if you can control this-- I'd aim for 4 to 5 minutes.

Next, you show 1st 3 1/2 minutes later. That may be a bit too steep, say you want 4 minutes from 300 to 400, or say 30 degrees per minute.

The ramp from 1st to 2nd really depends on what you're trying to do, and so the main thing is are you able to control it?

Looks like you are doing fine to me! -bill
Edited by bvwelch on 04/07/2010 9:57 AM
endlesscycles

Quote

bvwelch wrote:
Oddly enough, I'm envious - my setup isn't nearly so fast as yours. I wish it was. :-)

Let's assume your readings are 10 degrees higher than what we may consider 'normal' (kind of a joke but that's another story)

Then, that would mean 4 minutes from start to 300, which I think is great. Sometimes you might want a bit more drying time, so see if you can control this-- I'd aim for 4 to 5 minutes.

Next, you show 1st 3 1/2 minutes later. That may be a bit too steep, say you want 4 minutes from 300 to 400, or say 30 degrees per minute.

The ramp from 1st to 2nd really depends on what you're trying to do, and so the main thing is are you able to control it?

Looks like you are doing fine to me! -bill


Totally agreed! It looks a lot like my standard profile, but I slow way down the final three minutes. It's all very personal, but it looks like you've got the equipment needed to do what you want.
-Marshall Hance
Asheville, NC
seedlings
This is not the greatest example, but I just roasted about 400g of SweetMaria's decaf Sumatra. I have rough settings on my triac for controlling the heatgun. I call them "low, medium, high, and full" power

Preheat 250F, HG on med
01:00 200F
02:00 246F
03:00 284F
04:00 316F HG to hi
05:00 370F
06:00 401F
07:00 423F
08:00 439F (8:25, 440F first crack starts)
09:00 444F HG to med
10:00 446F HG to low
11:00 457F
11:06 457F second crack fires up all-at-once rolling, dump, cool in 1 minute

Since you don't have a baseline (and I don't keep very good notes), know that I lowered the charge from 1lb~1.25lb down to a little more than 3/4lb. So this has destroyed my temperature readings, which regularly see first crack at 400~405F and second at 435~440F.

Had remarkably few divots, but more than usual. If I'm to use any lower than 1# charge, I have to get another method of measuring temperature... or build a new roaster...

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
seedlings

Quote

endlesscycles wrote:
Decafs are really hard to roast. If low will proceed the roast at 446F, then ease down into that setting earlier to prevent the wild acceleration. Otherwise, looks like you have the tools to do good work. Is your thermometer consistent?


I can't say if my temperature readings are consistent, as I regularly roast 1# or little more, and the thermometer is well in the beans. This time the beans were just grazing the thermometer as they whirled around, so it's mostly air temp.

I wanted to try a little lighter load. (plus this entire batch exactly filled a mason jar)

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
bvwelch
It would be great if you could just move your probe down lower, and keep the same roaster otherwise. Are you tilting the roaster?

I also struggle with temp positions and consistent readings. we really need a wireless bean-sized probe. :-)
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