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Roasting Fruit Bomb Coffees
smatty1
Thought I'd post my recent experiences with my favorite type of coffee. The "fruit forward" or "fruit bomb".
My mind was blown with the DP Ethiopian Korate that was around last year and hopefully we will see again! Any coffee that boast flavors of blueberry or other potent fruits I swiftly buy up for roasting.
I just havnt been able to get these fruit flavors to come out properly lately. Not from Guji or Misty Valley or any of the other allegedly fruity beans. My default roast profile has gotten progressively more geared for development of body and I'm wondering if that is the reason why. Wondering if I should use a profile geared for bringing out bright flavors for the fruit bomb coffees.
Thoughts? Comments? Anecdotes?
seedlings
Time Spent
1) Drying
2) Ramp to First Crack
3) Between Cracks

2 is the key for me. Shorter = fruit/acidity, longer = nuttiness or perceived body.

Next importance would be 3. STOP the roast well before the smells and sounds of second crack.

CHAD
Edited by seedlings on 11/18/2009 9:40 AM
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
farmroast
What are you using for a roaster? As Chad mentions the lighter roasts will yield more fruit. Slowing but not stalling the roast at start of first crack to get enough time for flavor development(about 3+mins) and stopping at city or city+. Very generally, depending on roaster and heat transfer abilities, drying:4-5mins to 300f BT (beans begin to tan), 4-5mins. to start of first crack, : 3-4mins(closer to 3mins. for brewed and closer to 4 for espresso) to dump.
Ed B.
DreamRoast 1kg roaster, Levers, Hand Mills http://coffee-roa...gspot.com/
smatty1

Quote

farmroast wrote:
What are you using for a roaster? As Chad mentions the lighter roasts will yield more fruit. Slowing but not stalling the roast at start of first crack to get enough time for flavor development(about 3+mins) and stopping at city or city+. Very generally, depending on roaster and heat transfer abilities, drying:4-5mins to 300f BT (beans begin to tan), 4-5mins. to start of first crack, : 3-4mins(closer to 3mins. for brewed and closer to 4 for espresso) to dump.


I'm using a Gene Cafe. My original profile was:
300 for 5
482 til end

Then my profile became:
300 for 5
476 til 1 min of C1
449 til end

My current profile is:
300 for 6
476 til onset of C1
444 til end
seedlings
You're using dense beans that can take heat well, and 6 minutes is too long at 300F, and you may be stalling. (I've never used a genecafe.)

Try:
300 just until the beans are beginning to tan... unevenness is OK, if it takes longer than 4 minutes then next time start at a higher temperature

482 to rolling first crack

444 til end

End should be after first crack has completed, but significantly before the smells and sounds of the first snap of second. Cool it FAST.

That'd be where I start.

CHAD
Edited by seedlings on 11/18/2009 12:39 PM
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
John Despres
CHAD,
300F for 6 is about what it takes for the beans to yellow, much less begin browning.

Waiting until they start to brown at 300F in a Gene Cafe will take about 8 minutes. There's not a snowball's chance in a Probat a Gene Cafe will brown beans in four minutes.

I use (depending on the bean) 300F or 325F for 6 and move from there. Most typically, these days a warming period of 6 at 325F

Here's a thread to look over on HB - this is where I came to this profile idea which I shared with smatty. http://www.home-b...t9844.html

Interestingly, after sharing this link with Eddie, he and I came to similar conclusions and profiles of warming for 6 at 325F on our own and discovered it after comparing notes a couple weeks later.

I take the dive to lower temps any from the onset of 1st to the end of first, again depending on the bean.

Your suggested profile should work just fine and yield smatty a delicious fruit bomb.

Let us know how it goes!

John



Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
smatty1

Quote

John Despres wrote:
CHAD,
300F for 6 is about what it takes for the beans to yellow, much less begin browning.

Waiting until they start to brown at 300F in a Gene Cafe will take about 8 minutes. There's not a snowball's chance in a Probat a Gene Cafe will brown beans in four minutes.

I use (depending on the bean) 300F or 325F for 6 and move from there. Most typically, these days a warming period of 6 at 325F

Here's a thread to look over on HB - this is where I came to this profile idea which I shared with smatty. http://www.home-b...t9844.html

Interestingly, after sharing this link with Eddie, he and I came to similar conclusions and profiles of warming for 6 at 325F on our own and discovered it after comparing notes a couple weeks later.

I take the dive to lower temps any from the onset of 1st to the end of first, again depending on the bean.

Your suggested profile should work just fine and yield smatty a delicious fruit bomb.

Let us know how it goes!

John




So then the current profile of :
300 for 6
476 til onset of C1
444 til end
should be giving me fruit bombs if I'm hearing this correctly?
I have a bunch of fruity coffee's to play with in the days ahead, so I'll keep posted. I did just roast Nicaraguan Limoncillo DP using that profile and did not get any fruits in it, so I'm scratchin my head on that one...
seedlings
Yeah, John, I've read that thread, and that group knows the goods! I'd just add that at only 300F, it will take quite a long time to yellow. Maybe I should state it this way... I'd set the temperature to give yellowing in 4 to 5 minutes, whether that's 300F or 485F.

Still concentrate on a fast ramp from dry to first crack for fruit, IMO. Really it shouldn't take but another 4 or 5 minutes to get to first crack... and then, as you said, John, if you're confident when 1st is coming, lower the temperature in advance. You don't want an uncontrollably rapid first crack, neither do you want such a slow ramp that first is almost inaudible.

smatty, listen to John already! Grin

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
John Despres
I like CHAD's suggestion combined with mine better.

For either the Guji or the IMV

325F for 6 minutes
482F until 1st
444F until end of roast ; 0-30 seconds after 1st ends.
This should give you a nice roast.
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
seedlings
:22
Simultaneous posts! HI-five, John!

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
John Despres
Interestingly, CHAD, running full bore at 482F right into 1st still takes this machine about 11 to 11 1/2 minutes.

Warming for 6 at 325F hits first about 13 to 13 1/2.

Smatty, want to wait a day or two? I'll roast a few batches this evening of the same fruit bomb, something I have in the larder.

I'll do a roaring fly at first:
300F preheat
482F to 1st
444F to EOR

Then:
Preheat to 300F
325F for 5
482F to 1st
444F to EOR

Then:
Preheat to 300F
Then 325 for 6
482F to 1st
444F to EOR

See? This IS fun!
John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
seedlings
My money is in lane #1 for fruit bomb!

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
smatty1

Quote

John Despres wrote:
Interestingly, CHAD, running full bore at 482F right into 1st still takes this machine about 11 to 11 1/2 minutes.

Warming for 6 at 325F hits first about 13 to 13 1/2.

Smatty, want to wait a day or two? I'll roast a few batches this evening of the same fruit bomb, something I have in the larder.

I'll do a roaring fly at first:
300F preheat
482F to 1st
444F to EOR

Then:
Preheat to 300F
325F for 5
482F to 1st
444F to EOR

Then:
Preheat to 300F
Then 325 for 6
482F to 1st
444F to EOR

See? This IS fun!
John

Knock yourself out. If I roast tomorrow, It will be some Rwanda. It will probably be this wknd before I roast any fruity coffee:). I've got a bag of the new crop of shanto golba and a grade 3 sidamo(both from freshcoffeebeans.com). I also have a half lb left of the limoncillo DP.

Also...I havnt been doing any preheating since Tim Skaling told me it was too hard on the machine.....
Edited by smatty1 on 11/18/2009 6:03 PM
John Despres

Quote

Also...I havnt been doing any preheating since Tim Skaling told me it was too hard on the machine.....

Yeah, he's told me that a million times. I listened to him for a while and went back to it.

It's a heater; what's it for besides heating? If three minutes of preheating shortens the life of my element by a couple weeks, I'm OK with that. They're not that expensive so I keep it up.

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
Clifford
I will roast a fruit bomb today in my Gene
May the Force be with your cup
John Despres
Good luck Clifford! First roast in the Gene Cafe?

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
smatty1

Quote

John Despres wrote:

Quote

Also...I havnt been doing any preheating since Tim Skaling told me it was too hard on the machine.....

Yeah, he's told me that a million times. I listened to him for a while and went back to it.

It's a heater; what's it for besides heating? If three minutes of preheating shortens the life of my element by a couple weeks, I'm OK with that. They're not that expensive so I keep it up.

John

So do you always preheat? I thought I noticed better results when I was doing it, but I have too many variables and not enough notes to say for sure:) I defer to you....
gene
:)What a great thread! So timely

Kenya Kirinyaga roasted on Nov 9...just coming into its best taste window after 10 days, 1/2 pound already 3/4 gone. I'm blending this Super Citrus everyday.

Roast Profile: 300 for 5 min, 480 to beginning of first crack, down to 444 to finish. Actually hit cool at 15:30 in Gene Cafe and off at 17:00

Thanks to John and Smatty for inspiration.
gene

Now am on edge of seat still waiting for John's experiment on the three profiles above.
smatty1

Quote

gene wrote:
:)What a great thread! So timely

Kenya Kirinyaga roasted on Nov 9...just coming into its best taste window after 10 days, 1/2 pound already 3/4 gone. I'm blending this Super Citrus everyday.

Roast Profile: 300 for 5 min, 480 to beginning of first crack, down to 444 to finish. Actually hit cool at 15:30 in Gene Cafe and off at 17:00

Thanks to John and Smatty for inspiration.
gene

Now am on edge of seat still waiting for John's experiment on the three profiles above.


Funny. I was gonna PM John about this issue and then I thought I'd start a thread so other people could benefit from this discussion:) That's why we're all here, right? To learn together!
John Despres
Super busy, which is a good thing... Today is day 4 since the experiment. I've been tasting all along and am surprised by what I've discovered. More later.

I roasted three bathes of CHADS'S Ethiopia Sidamo Shanta Golba. The profiles I ued are above - Anybody care to venture a guess as to what happened?

I've probably preheated for the past 40-50 roasts.

More tonight I hope, but I have to get to work.

John
Edited by John Despres on 11/22/2009 8:08 AM
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
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