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City? City +? Full City?
John Despres
Here are some questions that warrant discussion.

What do you label your degree of roast? How do you know? When do they occur?

There are several different lists of when a certain degree of roast is reached and they don?t match.

Sweet Maria?s list is as follows also with pictures as reference:
City + roast at 435?F, about 25 seconds after end of 1st crack
Full City roast at 444?F about 25 seconds after 1st ends
Full City + at 454?F about 1:50 after 1st ends
http://www.sweetm...uideV2.php

The HRO List has these divisions without temperatures but pictures as reference.
Cinnamon roast just after 1st crack
New England Roast
American Roast
City Roast
Full City Roast just after 2nd crack
http://www.homero.../index.htm

Kenneth Davids has this list in his book ?Home Coffee Roasting?
Cinnamon roast below 400?F
New England at 400?F
American at 400-415?F
City at 415-435?F
Full City at435-445?F

And also from Sweet Maria?s, this list at the bottom of the page
George Steinert's Degree of Roast/Temperature chart:

Early yellow at 327?F
1st Crack Begins at 401?F
1st Crack Under Way at 415?F
City Roast at 426?F
City+ at 435 ?F
Full City 446 ?F
Full City+ 454 ?F
Vienna (Light French) 465 ?F
http://www.sweetm...uideV2.php

Here?s yet another site with variances: (This one is interesting with lots of nice, seemingly accurate descriptions)
http://www.cofei....ption.html

My concern is communication amongst us home coffee roasters. My Full City + may be your Full City. Yet your Full City may come after 2nd crack and my Full City is before 2nd is remotely near.

Which labeling system do you use? Is there yet another guide you go by? How can we better communicate our roasts to one another?

Some of us are able to determine bean temperature while others know the drum temperature only. Stating the temperature of when your roast ended is of great importance to some while it means nothing to me as there?s no way for me to know.

All of this occurred to me this afternoon while chatting with the owner of a USRC. He knows as much as possible about his roasts, while I know exhaust temperature and time. Of course, these are both usable factors; I can base roasts on the information and then measure the bean temperature with an IR thermometer immediately upon pulling the drum. That could be great post roast information like recording the weight loss; there?s no way I can know it before the roast ends in my Gene Caf?.

So, what do we call our roasts? How and why?

John
Edited by John Despres on 02/19/2010 4:57 PM
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
gene
Just to focus on one, say Sweet Maria's: Tom says, eg,
Full City + at 454?F about 1:50 after 1st ends

I like Tom and Sweet Marias and would like to use his chart but it is impossible. There is absolutely no way FC+ can be characterized as being at 454 1:50 after 1st ends.
Similarly the other charts. I respect Kenneth Davids, etc.
We are a huge loose org but need to band together to have one standard.

I could support anything as long as we have an industry standard or , better yet, a homeroasters standard.

ps: And I'm guilty of asking John "So and so and so and so and what do you think this roast is, FC or FC+"?
 
milknmycoffee
You asked the million dollar question, John :)

I use the Sweet Maria's definition of City & city + roasts. Most of my roasts end with a bean temp of 425 and 9-9:30 minute roasting time. I generally hit 1st crack between 6:50-7:20 minutes.

Here is a question. What if you prolong your post 1st crack roasting time by only a minute or two....but keeping the bean temp withing the 415-425 range? Technically your finishing bean temp falls within a City range but the extra post 1st crack time does make for a slighter darker roast.

I roast with a modified WB Poppery I. My 9-9:30 minute City roasts are very different from my 10:30-11 minute 'darker' roasts. Just adding another minute or two does change the flavor profile slightly: more body, sometimes more chocolate notes, mellowing acids, and sometimes a lessening of more delicate fruit flavors. I notice a huge difference especially with Sumatrans & Sulawesi beans, for example.

Now I realize that each roasting method is different...a minute makes a bigger difference in an air roaster than say a drum roaster perhaps. The question remains the same though: what happens when you prolong the post 1st crack time slightly, keeping the bean under Full City bean temps? What do you call this roast?

I am with Gene: I am open to anything as long as we have a standard. I especially like the idea of a 'Homeroaster's standard' :)
 
endlesscycles
Where your bean probe is located changes everything regarding a temperature based standard: even the number of degrees past first for a given roast can change dramatically.

I don't think it is possible to describe a roast level much beyond the usual City, Full City, Vienna paradigm and is probably most practical until data loggers become the norm; and honestly even then there's the whole problem I mention above.

The morphology of bean types affect their dynamics during the roast, so what is required to get the best results is a unique formula to that particular bean and the capabilities of the roaster. At best, I think you could say the following:

I roasted fifteen pounds of Sumatra Blue Batak Peaberry the other day. It required a long gentle drying time of about five minutes to avoid tipping, but required a lot of energy to get to and through first in four minutes, after which I ramped the heat back about 20% over three minutes to finish at City with a nice balance of acidity and sweetness.
-Marshall Hance
Asheville, NC
 
Randy G
some of-the-top-of-my-head thoughts... A Ramble:

This is what makes identifying roasts an iffy proposition, particularly with new home roasters (the people, not the appliances). Roast descriptions (i.e. "City" et.al.) describe the end roast level- that is just the destination; the end of the journey. What those of us who have been doing this for a while know is that here are lots and lots of roads that get us to that destination. Just the manipulation of the drying time (say from about 275 to 300F bean temperature) can make a big difference in the end product.

Monitoring bean temperature is even less accurate for most home roasters. Sure, if you are roasting two or more pounds at a time you have a deep enough bean mass that placement of the probe will be easy. For most home appliances, moving the probe just 1/4" makes a difference in the reading, and this discounts thermometer inaccuracies. It is repeatable for any given roaster, so it is valuable for the person monitoring the roast, but not as valuable for sharing with others.

Speaking of different roasters, and the inaccuracy of describing roast levels for any real, you can get a 15 minute, full city in a Gene Cafe or Hottop, or you can get the same described roast level in an un-modified popper in six (or less) minutes.

So I guess my point is that while a roast can be named for a specific color, or place in the crack progression, or internal bean temperature, but so what? It still does not specify what flavors are preserved or enhanced by that roast level. But I guess we have to talk about it in some way, with descriptive words that tell us something.

Personally, I have run into enough problems describing my roast level, I have settled on statements like "15 to 30 seconds into second." But if the person finds the answer lacking I am more than glad to share my profiling details.

time for another beer....

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
opus
Ok, I know you are waiting for me to upset the apple cart.

I tried the thermometer thing...no go. I tell by feel, smell, sound and look.
 
Randy G

Quote

opus wrote:
I tried the thermometer thing...no go. I tell by feel, smell, sound and look.


The thermometer is handy IF:
1 - you have one display to read the environmental temperature
2 - you have one to read the bean-mass temperature
3 - you have a deep enough bean mass so #2 is relatively accurate
4 - you have control over the heat

I judge end-of-roast by sound alone. But let's not forget that a quality roast is not a race to see who gets there first, nor is it merely a destination (as in stop the roast when it hits 235 or such). Temperature adjustments through the roast can lead to better coffee, IF you know what to do at certain temperature points.

Judge roast by "..feel.."?
2nd degree burns = 2nd crack...? Shock
;)

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
opus
Randy, all my roasting is done in cast iron over a flame.
I think sometimes people are trying to make roasting coffee far more sophisticated and difficult than it really is.
This however, are my personal feelings. :/
 
mldavis2
I'm stuck on Tom's visual chart because I agree with Randy G that bean temperature measurement is far too variable with small batch home roasters. The key is to learn your roaster and minimize or eliminate as many variables as you can (ambient temperature, etc.) There are still many variables you have to deal with such as bean size, moisture content, and bean density to name a few.
Edited by mldavis2 on 02/20/2010 12:53 PM
I love home roast!

iRoast2
Capresso Infinity
CCD, French press, Aeropress, TechniVorm
 
bvwelch
Greetings,

May I offer some brain-storming ideas?

1) more frequent roast exchange/swap events! I learn more that way than any other.

2) what's a good amount to send to each other? what's the cheapest way to mail the package, etc?

3) someone who is good with photography, please advise the rest of us on a suitable way to photograph our roasts - whole bean and grounds. What's a good, but hopefully inexpensive lamp we could set up?

4) can we find some paint-store color samples that we could use to compare roast colors, or at least proper lighting?

5) If our computer monitors are not accurate or consistent between us, what about using Walgreens or your local photo shop for prints? Are they likely to be any better? I suppose we could include the paint-chip in some of the photos to find out?
 
John Despres

Quote

bvwelch wrote:
Greetings,

May I offer some brain-storming ideas?

1) more frequent roast exchange/swap events! I learn more that way than any other.

2) what's a good amount to send to each other? what's the cheapest way to mail the package, etc?

3) someone who is good with photography, please advise the rest of us on a suitable way to photograph our roasts - whole bean and grounds. What's a good, but hopefully inexpensive lamp we could set up?

4) can we find some paint-store color samples that we could use to compare roast colors, or at least proper lighting?

5) If our computer monitors are not accurate or consistent between us, what about using Walgreens or your local photo shop for prints? Are they likely to be any better? I suppose we could include the paint-chip in some of the photos to find out?


Excellent ideas, Bill!

1) I'm all for that sort of peer-review. The swap as been typically a Holiday event, but it could certainly become more frequent. Monthly? Bi-monthly? Interestingly, I received an e-mail from another member about swapping more often. Perhaps the next one could be a single origin bean we all agree on. Rather than the Holiday fun sort of gift idea, we could compare apples to apples. Maybe an enterprising member could find a suitable bean and offer it for sale for the comparison swap? Hmmm. CHAD? Perhaps a choice of beans could be put up, we choose one, CHAD sells us the beans, we roast, we swap?

2) That could be up for discussion. I'll start a new Comparison Swap thread.

3) I'd suggest shooting in daylight with no flash. We all share the same sun. Most modern cameras will adapt to whatever existing there is. I'll play with this idea... Maybe set up another thread about that very subject.

4) Paint store samples or more common things we're all familiar with. Farmroast suggested in another thread on another site maybe Tootsie Rolls, peanut butter and so on...

5) Are you suggesting we mail printed photos? I'm not sure I understand this idea very well. There's little chance our monitors match at all, so on-line photos, may be of some help, but with differences.

Does anyone have any Agtron tiles? I think I remember Ginny offering some up for sale once. Still have 'em, Ginny? If you do, I may take them off your hands and make a matching set of paint chips from Lowes, Ace or Home Depot. If someone else has a set, would you be willing to take them to a common paint store and choose a st of chips?

John
Edited by John Despres on 02/20/2010 1:45 PM
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
endlesscycles
I think regular peer reviewed bean swaps would greatly enhance our collective knowledge and skill. An administrator would be handy. I would be willing to buy a full bag of something we could somewhat agree on and sell to the group at cost plus shipping. The other end of the redistribution would likely get messed up in my hands.


I really like where this is going.
-Marshall Hance
Asheville, NC
 
bvwelch
John - using good old sun-light is a wonderful idea. Duh...

About printing photos -- if we all posted photos to somewhere on the web, could we expect our local print shop (e.g. Walgreens) to do a good job of getting the colors right?

I like the paint-chips better, and the exchanging of roasts most of all.
 
DavidG
I am totally intrigued about getting a common, more precise understanding of what others mean by roast level. I have been at this only 15 months now, and still have SO much to learn.

I love the paint chip idea... which reminded me of a photo our friend "down under" took. Somewhere in Koffee Kosmo's thread about the Turbo Roaster is a roast photo that has a card sticking in the beans. I recall it said something like coffeesnobs.au and had varying degrees of roast in progression. If this card exists, can we (the Americans) follow the lead of the Aussies? I'd love to have a professionally printed (uniform) roast index, of sorts. KK, can you give us the inside scoop on the roast card?

Equally exciting is the possibility of paint chips -- there are SO many shade variations. Ironically, so many of them have cutesy coffee names (mocha, espresso, latte, etc.)

I echo endlesscycles, I really like where this is going.

David
europiccola | yama + coryrod | chemex | AP | clever
wbp1 | wepp1 | bm/hg | co hybrid (still coming soon...)
 
John Despres
David, the problem with standard paint chips is they fade. Most printed material does, and that's why the industry uses Agtron ceramic tiles; they don't fade. The ease of using even a cutesy named paint chip available to us all is great. We can renew the chips every year or so. All it would cost is a trip to the paint store.

Marshall, there are plenty of admins to make it happen! It looks to me like it's on the way now. If you'd like to research some bean possibilities, that'd be great! Let us know what you learn. I started another thread for the comparison bean swap for this very thing.

Bill, I have very little trust in common photo printers. Each machine has different folk maintaining them and who knows what the set-up is per machine? I imagine they may be close, but I doubt they match 100%. I've spent too much time in the photography industry to trust the snapshot suppliers for something as critical as this may be. Every roll or sheet I've sent to a pro lab was accompanied by a color chart with a gray scale. Walgreen may not know what to do with that information.

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Randy G
[Be aware that my comments are based on the fact that about 95% of what I do is for espresso, and none of the following is aimed at any specific person, nor meant to insult...

Color chips only designate the destination and do nothing to map the journey. You can roast a coffee five times to the same Agtron color and use five different profiles to get there, and have five different experiences in the cupping.

For any given person, on their roasting appliance, using the same profile, mass of beans, etc., the Agtron tiles can be helpful to know when to end the roast... maybe, BUT.. as I seem to recall (all FWIW) those tiles are meant to be used to compare ground and compacted samples in controlled lighting, no?

And while taking photographs of roasted beans can be a fun challenge, the value of it in terms of sharing roast levels alludes me. I have used the Spyder to calibrate my monitor in the past, and various systems to calibrate my photo printer to match, but then what? Even IF two people have the same roaster, and the same exact beans, and roast the same mass of beans, for a home roaster using a home roasting appliance, the difficulty of getting the same profile to achieve the same taste is extremely difficult, and I do not think having a photograph in hand of someone else's roast will help much.

Sharing profiles is much the same- unless all other factors as mentioned above, and a few more besides, are duplicated does not mean much.

So what am I trying to say? Anyone? I need some help here.. :eye-popping:

Ok.. to be serious, thee is one testing device in regards to roasting coffee.. the palate. I terms of espresso (what I do about 95% of the time), I try to control all factors from beginning to end to get the taste I prefer. When I switched from the Rancilio Rocky grinder to the Mazzer Kony I had to change my blend because the Kony revealed tastes that the Rocky did not, and I didn't like what I was tasting..

OK- the REAL bottom line- we should use whatever we can to share information about roasts with the goal of making better coffee. But if you are using that information just to find and end point of your roasts, and you are not not controlling and tweaking the profile, and if you are not modifying your blend to match you machine and grinder, and most of all, your palate, it has little value.

So a home roaster who thinks that using a temperate or color to end their roast but doing nothing else to control the process and expects that this will give them the best roast possible (even under the restrictions of home roasting appliances) is laboring under a delusion.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
John Despres

Quote

Randy G wrote:
[Be aware that my comments are based on the fact that about 95% of what I do is for espresso, and none of the following is aimed at any specific person, nor meant to insult...

Color chips only designate the destination and do nothing to map the journey. You can roast a coffee five times to the same Agtron color and use five different profiles to get there, and have five different experiences in the cupping.

For any given person, on their roasting appliance, using the same profile, mass of beans, etc., the Agtron tiles can be helpful to know when to end the roast... maybe, BUT.. as I seem to recall (all FWIW) those tiles are meant to be used to compare ground and compacted samples in controlled lighting, no?

And while taking photographs of roasted beans can be a fun challenge, the value of it in terms of sharing roast levels alludes me. I have used the Spyder to calibrate my monitor in the past, and various systems to calibrate my photo printer to match, but then what? Even IF two people have the same roaster, and the same exact beans, and roast the same mass of beans, for a home roaster using a home roasting appliance, the difficulty of getting the same profile to achieve the same taste is extremely difficult, and I do not think having a photograph in hand of someone else's roast will help much.

Sharing profiles is much the same- unless all other factors as mentioned above, and a few more besides, are duplicated does not mean much.

So what am I trying to say? Anyone? I need some help here.. :eye-popping:

Ok.. to be serious, thee is one testing device in regards to roasting coffee.. the palate. I terms of espresso (what I do about 95% of the time), I try to control all factors from beginning to end to get the taste I prefer. When I switched from the Rancilio Rocky grinder to the Mazzer Kony I had to change my blend because the Kony revealed tastes that the Rocky did not, and I didn't like what I was tasting..

OK- the REAL bottom line- we should use whatever we can to share information about roasts with the goal of making better coffee. But if you are using that information just to find and end point of your roasts, and you are not not controlling and tweaking the profile, and if you are not modifying your blend to match you machine and grinder, and most of all, your palate, it has little value.

So a home roaster who thinks that using a temperate or color to end their roast but doing nothing else to control the process and expects that this will give them the best roast possible (even under the restrictions of home roasting appliances) is laboring under a delusion.


Good thoughts, Randy.

Remember your first roast? The very first one? I wonder how you knew it was finished? Perhaps you ended the roast when the beans looked like the coffee you were already familiar with. In other words; a reference point beyond the subjectivity of palate, which you cannot know before the roast is finished.

These tools are not the end all-be all, of course, but rather, as you indicated points in time to a goal. Anything to help each other create a better roast.

There's not one single person here who's an expert and has all the answers. We're working together with tools we have and a few we may even invent in the quest for an excellent cup of coffee. Since the quest never ends we'll keep working t better roast. It's great to have you here - You obviously have different experiences than some of us here so please look around an go through past threads and offer up up advise on creating a better roast. There are a lot of discussions you can join in.

I agree about the palate being the final arbiter, however my description of the delicious cup I'm drinking can not help someone roast a better batch.

Everything we're discussing here is a tool. A photo of one's roast may provide a clue to a problem they are having. A paint chip may help a brand new roaster neophyte reach a better roast while the quest for a better cup continues.

As to laboring under a delusion, we're here to help each other, not deride each other. You see, maybe I can offer up a paint chip example while providing time and temperature markers along the way. These are tools, but I don't consider them the final answer. Someone else may, but they'll be dissuaded of that soon enough.

Maybe one cat is really puzzled about the way the most recent roast turned out so he posts a picture, because he doesn't have the vocabulary to describe what his issue is. I'd rather he posted a good photo than a crappy one.

If a member wants to post a photo, why not help them post the best possible photo?

Ya gotta make fun with what ya got.

Okay, it's breakfast time. Thanks for your thoughts, Randy!

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
bvwelch
We'd love to monitor, control, and improve every aspect of our roasting, brewing, etc.

Color is just one aspect, agreed.

A photo, even if only online/on-computer, may be helpful in some ways besides color.

As I mentioned before, exchanging roasts is my favorite.

I also buy fresh roasts from commercial shops when I can, but the closest place is 50 miles away.

I haven't tried internet-shopping for roasts, but maybe I should consider it.

Thanks!
 
dja
Someone said that sunlight is the same light everywhere, and they were correct. But the problem with photographs is that not all people take the same picture at the same time, using the same film, at the same angle into or away from the light.

So a picture taken in Wisconson at noon will have differeances that will show up in the same photo taken in Florida at say 5:00 PM.

As far as film goes theres tons of differances between Fuji and Kodak.


dja
I pour Iron and roast Coffee BeansThumbsUp
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette
 
John Despres
The option is spending a lot of money on 32K, 34K, 36K halogen lamps or a strobe system plus filters. I have all that in the studio, but I'm not about to send someone to match my gear just to photograph beans.

Since the sun is common to all of us, it's the one stop shopping light source and free.

Alaskan sunlight would be tough at this time of year as well!Grin Great observation, dga!

And should we shoot on a slightly overcast day (yes) or throw a silk in the air to get a nice soft light across our beans (yes again).

Technicalities aside, I think the sun will work great for starters.

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Randy G

Quote

John Despres wrote:
Remember your first roast? The very first one? I wonder how you knew it was finished?

I am not really the one to use to answer that question. By the time I had received my first roaster to do my first roast, I had read pages and pages regarding the process. I knew what the cracks were and so was already well on my way. (you can read this neophyte's [mine] documentatin of that HERE on my website.). In that respect I would assume I was the exception more than the rule at least as far as the average consumer goes.

But you do bring up a point that was on my mind- The sort of discussion we are having would result in a compilation of information that would be far more useful for the person just beginning to roast than for a person who has been at it for a while.

All of this is also based on the user having some control over the roast beyond "GO" and "STOP," and/or having some real-time information such as real-time temperature data. Roasting appliances that do not allow the user to make meaningful adjustments DURING the roast do not allow the user to "create" a flavor that pleases them. The flavor of their coffee, to the greatest extent is controlled by what beans they use and how the designers of the machine created the control program.

You may remember the first few models of the Hottop- I have owned them all - The first, post-beta, pre-production model (I still have that collectible roaster), then the KN-8828, KN-8828D, KN-8828P, and KN-8828B. The first two models had no control. They had a factory-programmed profile and it took FAR too long to roast. I (as well as others) worked at convincing them that user control was critical. I could go into all the details, and my dislike for the factory default profile and why it is not good, but the end result was the "P" model first,which I did not personally like) and then the "B" which, in regards to control, is just about one could expect in a home roaster.

For those who are pleased with a "set-it-and-forget-it" roaster, or one with a green and a red button (start and stop), then having an idea of a stop point is important, but not terribly critical because mush of the flavor as already been decided by their choice of roaster. In these cases having color chips or temperature data could be handy. I think that knowing where and how the cracks occur is all they need (assuming that they can hear the cracks). Are those people concerned about getting the very best out of any given coffee? Maybe, but there is little they can do to achieve it.

This subject HAS to consider the audience before categorizing what information is most useful.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
bvwelch
I consider myself a beginner, so bring on the info. Thank you.
 
John Despres
Hi, Randy.

Interestingly, my advance research didn't pay off as well as yours did. I read Kenneth Davids' book several times and it made no sense to me. First what? Second what? City Plus? Full City? Risk of fire? HUH? I spent a lot of advance time at the Sweet Maria's site, but nothing began making sense until I roasted a few bathes of coffee.

My first roast ended in my new Fresh Roast 8 Plus when the greens looked like coffee. I didn't hear any cracks for about 8-10 roasts. Eventually and slowly things became clearer.

You are 100% correct about the information we're discussing being better suited for a beginning roaster or one wishing to move forward. Our goal here is to help each member, neophyte or the more accomplished, increase their skills and get a better cup of coffee. Naturally, the language will change per member and per machine.

I think, for the most part, every roaster can be a "set it and forget it" machine, with the possible exception of a heat gun/dog bowl setup, that is... Be that as it may, we're interested in helping anyone with a question increase their skills. Shoot, I have a long way to go myself. In fact, I recently made an interesting discovery on HB reading an excellent thread Jim Schulman is posting to. So now I'm trying something very different from past practices and am having a blast doing it. Once I get a handle on it, I'll share when the opportunity arises.

You are absolutely correct in knowing our audience. The thing to consider is each member of HRO is a specific and unique audience, including myself. HRO isn't specifically for advanced roasters or beginners, either. There's a lot of information here for all levels of roasting experience. Personally, photos of roasted coffee is of little interest to me by now, but if it will help another member improve their roasting skills and knowledge, than we at HRO need to work out a way to make it possible for photos to help them and the same for other ideas. It's a continuous goal to eke out a slightly better cup from our roasts because every cup of coffee is a special occasion, and I'll continue my quest for a better cup from my roaster until I can no longer swallow. I think it's lots of fun. I have no idea how good I am but I'm able to help folk here, and that's a good time and very rewarding. Our roast swaps bring reviews from other members and it looks like that idea will hopefully expand - I hope you join in a swap or two with us. In fact, I entered the first homeroaster's competition, not to win, but to get feedback from a couple excellent coffee cuppers. I may get creamed, but the feedback will be valuable to me and anybody else who's been following my advice. I just hope it's not to embarrassing:|

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Randy G

Quote

DavidG wrote:
I am totally intrigued about getting a common, more precise understanding of what others mean by roast level. I have been at this only 15 months now, and still have SO much to learn.


David, Don't feel bad. I have been home roasting for over 9 years and am still learning a LOT!

[I apologize if this is a repeat- I have told this story so many times, I have forgotten to whom and when].. A good acquaintance who is a pro roaster and has been roasting most of his life. He was observing another fellow with a computer-controlled Hottop roaster that gave real-time graphed display of the roast on a laptop as well as full control of the roaster from the computer. The pro looked at the screen and said, "You're teasing it... you're bringing it along too slowly. It will taste like balsa wood." The person roasting it said he was doing what he wanted.. The pro looked at me with an "oh, well" expression, and walked away

Later I got a chance to sample it and it was pure balsa with a coffee follow.. mostly balsa.

So, ya, we all have a lot to learn to get to that point!

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
John Despres
And it's a very fun adventure!

ThumbsUp
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
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