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Homeroasters - Home Roasting Coffee Community » THE ART OF ROASTING COFFEE » Roasting Profiles

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PID air roaster profiling
les_albjerg	#61 Posted on 05/15/2006 10:05 PM
Newbie Posts: 23 Joined: December 07, 2005	This has been a fun thread to read. I was a fluid bed roast until I went over to the "Drum-side,"s:1 An area I was expermenting with and getting good results in my fluid bed roaster was preheating my chamber before adding the beans. I didn't have a good K-Probe or anything like PID control. I was getting better results by starting at a higher tempature and controling the heat after the bean expansion (grassy) or light green color stage. Have any of you guys tried a preheated chamber and flattening the ramp out? This is in essense what I do with my RK drum, and I find it easier to roast and I get great results. I never thought I would go to a drum, but I do like the capacity and the results. Les c:3


Mike	#62 Posted on 05/15/2006 11:06 PM
1/2 Pounder Posts: 283 Joined: October 24, 2005	Les, My sessions usually involve 4 or 5, 1/2 lb. roasts (RK envy). I let the beans cool in the P1 to approx. 250? F, then dump to a screen colandar and place the colandar on the cooling fan. I immediately turn around and dump the next batch of greens into the roaster. It is usually still at 180? to 200? (depending on how much I am farting around). The heat sink of the beans immediately pulls the bean/roast chamber temp down to 120?ish, the PID when switched on will start its first ramp at whatever temp it sees from the TC. I've tried starting with the roaster at 300? and it doesn't seem to affect the bean temp more than 10? (immediate cool down to 130? or so). This may be due to my 280 gm green bean load being a considerably larger heat sink than the P1 structure. Mike B) Edited by Mike on 06/02/2006 7:01 AM


jim_schulman	#63 Posted on 08/20/2006 10:39 PM
Newbie Posts: 5 Joined: August 20, 2006	I'm coming to this thread way late, but perhaps with a bit of new stuff: On bean verus supply air PID: Bob Yellin uses a Scirroco air roaster, perhaps the best built small roaster on the planet (alas discontinued since the 80s) and object of extreme lust among pros for sample roasting, Since the air goes through a very long brass tube before entering the roast chamber, the temperature fluctuations introduced by PID controlling off bean temp are not very extreme. They are more extreme on the P1, where the heat is quite close to the bottom of the chamber, but where the cermaic stone moderates the effect. Later model poppsers and airroasters probably would show even more extreme fluctuations. On airflow: the efficiency of heat transfer depends on both the amount of airflow and the amount of beans; it's basicall like a windchill effect. This sounds unbelievable, but you can try it and see for yourself if you have a PID and variaced fan. Set the supply air at a fixed temperature. Do two roast, one with lots of beans, one with few. Set the airflow so it's the same for bth roasts (one can do it roughly by putting ones hand on the outlet and checking the airspeed or by setting the fan so the beans are moving at the sme speed in both roasts). The smaller batch will roast substantially faster due to the more efficient heat transfer. On PIDed roasters (weither way) One can use this information to control both supply and bean profiles. -- Using smaller loads will produce a lower temperature supply profile for the same bean temperature profile. This is a useful trick if one is getting harsh or ashy flavors. -- Higher loads will produce the same bean profile with higher supply temperatures. This is useful if the roast flavors are underdeveloped (e.g. where's the chocolate?) In other words, using a PID on the bean temperature, and modifying ones loads, lets one control both inflow and outflow temperatures, and allows one to tune the roast flavors (respond more to supply temps) and origin flavors (respond more to bean temps) separately. For those of you like me, and using supply PID, lowering the dose with the same supply profile will produce higher bean temperatures throughout the roast, i.e. a faster roast to any given level. Tuning is a little more tricky, but if you were worried about getting the roasts profiled to the second, you wouldn't be using the PID controller in this way.;) -- Jim Schulman Coffeecuppers.com
	Web

Mike	#64 Posted on 08/21/2006 12:56 AM
1/2 Pounder Posts: 283 Joined: October 24, 2005	Live and learn. Trying out Jims advice and roasted a couple of loads of Yellow Bourbon in the Ubber Popper, First load pretty close to my maximum green bean load of approx. 280 gms, the Second load 250 gms. The Ubber Popper uses a bean temp TC instead of inlet air (soon to add an extra TC). I tried to hold the air flow consistant between the roasts (variac fan control), I think I did pretty well. Same PID program for both roasts (I've recently been playing with different profiles from what I have become stagnant with for the last couple of years). I'll start tasting day after tomorrow. Mike B)


jim_schulman	#65 Posted on 08/22/2006 10:01 PM
Newbie Posts: 5 Joined: August 20, 2006	Quote Mike wrote: I'll start tasting day after tomorrow. Let us knoiw how it goes. BTW, yours is ineed the ueberpopper, mine poops out at 180 grams. -- Jim Schulman Coffeecuppers.com
	Web

Mike	#66 Posted on 08/25/2006 12:28 AM
1/2 Pounder Posts: 283 Joined: October 24, 2005	I've been gone from home for a few days....installing a network in a friends clinic. Saturday will be my tasting day. I think the variac on the fan is what gives it a little extra uummph (138 Volts). It also got me in trouble (witness my last roast). Mike B)

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