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Page 1 of 2: 12
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 Biggest Body: What and How?
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| Unta |
Posted on 10/19/2010 6:13 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 788 Joined: January 26, 2010 |
Quote allenb wrote: Anyway, not being a trained cupper makes it tough to nail down what I'm tasting or not tasting. Allen taking the above into acount, wouldnt TDS have something to do with the percieved "body" of a cup? sean Sean Harrington
educate. |
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| John Despres |
Posted on 10/19/2010 9:01 PM
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 Administrator  Posts: 2221 Joined: January 09, 2008 |
Body, also called mouthfeel is the physical sensation of the liquid in the mouth. Syrupy is a great way to describe big body/mouthfeel. Here's a definition at Sweet Maria's - scroll down http://www.sweetm...ionary.php We're discussing a chemistry many coffee chemists are still looking for an answer to. Shoot, not even coffeechemistry.com has much about it yet. The fact is, coffee's the youngest of popular beverages, beer, wine, spirits are all thousands of years old. Coffee being roughly 700 years old, is just now beginning to get the scientific attention beer and wine have been getting for many, many years. I like the quest this thread provides and I don't know where the answers reside, but let's hope a serious chemist joins us here real soon. Now as to what changes during rest, I have no idea, but this morning, after 5 days rest, I enjoyed a huge bodied Ethiopia Organic Birbissa. This brew was thick and was a great sensation lasting a while after the cup was finished. Yesterday it wasn't like that at all. Now it's gone and my stash is depleted of this one, so I'm glad I had this cup today. I am digging this discussion! John Respect the bean.
John Despres Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers. |
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| Unta |
Posted on 10/19/2010 9:10 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 788 Joined: January 26, 2010 |
What method did you use to brew your cup this morning John? do you use the same method most mornings?it would be interesting to compare different methods with established "huge" bodied cups. see how much that impacts the perceived body. Quote John Despres wrote: I am digging this discussion! John As am I. sean Sean Harrington
educate. |
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| John Despres |
Posted on 10/20/2010 5:34 AM
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Administrator Posts: 2221 Joined: January 09, 2008 |
Quote Unta wrote: What method did you use to brew your cup this morning John? do you use the same method most mornings?it would be interesting to compare different methods with established "huge" bodied cups. see how much that impacts the perceived body. Chemex at the moment. White filter. I roll through different brewers for various amounts of time. Maybe press next... John Respect the bean.
John Despres Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers. |
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| JETROASTER |
Posted on 10/21/2010 8:26 AM
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 Administrator Posts: 1780 Joined: March 06, 2010 |
...So how does a Turkish (Trukish) play in to this. Big mouth feel...but, is that body? Pretty light roast, no filtering. Am I feeling the oils or fiber and proteins? -Scott |
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| seedlings |
Posted on 10/21/2010 12:12 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007 |
Quote freshbeans wrote: ...So how does a Turkish (Trukish) play in to this. Big mouth feel...but, is that body? Pretty light roast, no filtering. Am I feeling the oils or fiber and proteins? -Scott I wish one of us knew. Here's the test, though... use the exact same preparation and amounts for different coffees. There you will see the difference in body. If you compare that awesome Costa with a... Kona or Panama or Ethiopian the body differences will show up. If we're asking the question, 'what's the best brewing method to highlight body' then the answer is espresso, for sure. Turkish probably second. CHAD Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover |
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| John Despres |
Posted on 10/21/2010 1:34 PM
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Administrator Posts: 2221 Joined: January 09, 2008 |
Yes. Body and mouth feel are the same - just different terms. As far as Turkish goes, I've never made it, so I can't ad to that... John Respect the bean.
John Despres Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers. |
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| seedlings |
Posted on 10/22/2010 8:01 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007 |
I cross-posted on Home-Barista. Jim Schulman reminded me of -->The Cupper's Manafesto<-- Where on page 44 it says: Quote 7. BODY The cupping method concludes by evaluating the fluid to determine its mouth feel. In this process the tongue slides gently across the roof of the mouth, eliciting a tactile sensation. The oiliness, or slipperiness, of the sensation measures the fat content of the brew, while the sensation?s ?heft,? thickness and viscosity, measures the fiber and protein content. Combined, the two sensations constitute the brew?s body. CHAD Edited by seedlings on 10/22/2010 8:02 AM Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover |
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| JETROASTER |
Posted on 10/22/2010 8:05 AM
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Administrator Posts: 1780 Joined: March 06, 2010 |
If I hang around HRO long enough, do I get a diploma? Thanks Chad (and Ed) -Scott |
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| seedlings |
Posted on 10/22/2010 8:09 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007 |
Quote freshbeans wrote: If I hang around HRO long enough, do I get a diploma? Thanks Chad (and Ed) -Scott You're certifiable in my book, Scott. The learning is contagious, isnt' it? Although we're dancing and dancing around Marshall's original question... CHAD Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover |
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| JETROASTER |
Posted on 10/22/2010 8:13 AM
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Administrator Posts: 1780 Joined: March 06, 2010 |
True, on the actual question; My recent batch of Costa has me rethinking my Sumatran vote. In both cases, once I get well into second crack, the body starts to fade. -Scott |
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| seedlings |
Posted on 10/22/2010 8:18 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007 |
Quote freshbeans wrote: True, on the actual question; My recent batch of Costa has me rethinking my Sumatran vote. In both cases, once I get well into second crack, the body starts to fade. -Scott Is there ever a reason to 'get well into second crack'? CHAD Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover |
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| SteveN |
Posted on 10/22/2010 9:02 AM
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 1/4 Pounder  Posts: 127 Joined: March 16, 2010 |
Quote seedlings wrote: Is there ever a reason to 'get well into second crack'? My wife likes a darker roast... every once in a while I'll let a roast go a bit further if I know I won't be drinking it. That's reason enough for me :) |
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| JETROASTER |
Posted on 10/22/2010 9:29 AM
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Administrator Posts: 1780 Joined: March 06, 2010 |
" Is there ever a reason to 'get well into second crack'?" Sadly, the vast majority of my roasting is consumer driven. (Charbuck Syndrome) I've got to suck 'em in, before I can convert them. ...On the upside, this requirement has illuminated that certain coffees will not stand a darker roast. They go 'thin' very early. (...for whatever insights that provides) On the down-side, I've got alot to learn on light-roast technique. ..All in good time. -Scott |
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| John Despres |
Posted on 10/22/2010 7:01 PM
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Administrator Posts: 2221 Joined: January 09, 2008 |
Quote Is there ever a reason to 'get well into second crack'? CHAD None that I can see. I sell my coffee, but not in a retail situation so I don't have to sell it. I roast it light and if folk don't like it, it's okay with me. I may take a Yemen to the first kiss of second, but that's about it... John Respect the bean.
John Despres Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers. |
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| Unta |
Posted on 10/24/2010 11:50 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 788 Joined: January 26, 2010 |
Found this while researching sweetness... Have not investigated it any further... It was found here http://www.jimsev...versation/ Polysaccharides contribute in general to organoleptic properties of coffee brews - ie viscosity,mouthfeel , foam stability etc (Redgwell 2002). Hydrolysis during roasting decreases polysaccharide molecular weight (makes them smaller) and also decreases their branching. Basically breaking the chains off into smaller chunks - oligo- and mono-saccharides. sean Edited by Unta on 10/24/2010 11:54 PM Sean Harrington
educate. |
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| seedlings |
Posted on 10/25/2010 9:09 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007 |
Marshall, after (too) much reading on this point, I'm completely convinced no one can answer your question to any satisfying level of completeness. BUT, I believe that the origin plays the biggest, most important role. CHAD Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover |
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| milowebailey |
Posted on 10/26/2010 9:34 PM
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 1/4 Pounder Posts: 124 Joined: May 01, 2009 |
I think big bodied coffee, like wine, will tend to be that way mostly due to the plant, but the climate, altitude, weather, the soil and every process from plant to cup play into it too. I also know that you cannot coax big body out of every bean from say, Sumatra. You have to have good fruit! However, you can ruin a big bodied coffee with a bad roast profile. The prep, age of the green, storage, also matter, along the roast, then the rest after the roast, then the grind, then the grams per cup, then the water temperature... it all matters. And if it's not balanced, it can be Big and ugly... With all that said I suspect that certain variatals will produce a bigger bodied coffees. For instance with wine you won't find a big bodied Riesling, but you will find some big bodied Cabernet Sauvignon. I think if anyone figures the formula out, they will be rich! |
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| Unta |
Posted on 10/27/2010 9:16 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 788 Joined: January 26, 2010 |
wine is an interetsing comparison, is there a lipid content in wine? there definately would be sugars... what other similarities are there... hmmm sean Sean Harrington
educate. |
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| John Despres |
Posted on 10/27/2010 9:40 PM
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Administrator Posts: 2221 Joined: January 09, 2008 |
Just learned this from a couple Kiwi vintners - there's about 2 grams of sugar in a bottle of wine, on average. John Respect the bean.
John Despres Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers. |
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| John Despres |
Posted on 11/06/2010 7:58 PM
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Administrator Posts: 2221 Joined: January 09, 2008 |
Okay, back to body... Reading my new (to me) Ukers' "All About Coffee" I found a section entitled Complete Reference Table. Coffees are listed by country, region, shipping port, grade and trade values & cup characteristics. It seems washed and high grown coffees always rate as having large body and are rated quite favorably. Highly rated are: El Salvador, washed and high grown Costa Rica, washed and high grown Yemen, Mocha Mattari India Mysore Sumatra Mandheling That's all I know for the moment. It's a big book and I may discover more. We have a .pdf copy of Ukers' book here - http://forum.home...p?cat_id=3 John Edited by John Despres on 11/06/2010 7:58 PM Respect the bean.
John Despres Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers. |
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| Dan |
Posted on 11/07/2010 5:12 AM
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 1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Too bad the Ukers book is scanned images and not scanned text (OCR), that way the book could be searched. |
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| John Despres |
Posted on 11/07/2010 12:47 PM
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Administrator Posts: 2221 Joined: January 09, 2008 |
Correct, Dan. But look at what I found - http://books.goog...mp;f=false Google books has the 1922 edition on line. You can look through the table of contents or the extensive index with click-able links to pages. Have fun! John Edited by John Despres on 11/07/2010 2:16 PM Respect the bean.
John Despres Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers. |
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| Unta |
Posted on 11/07/2010 12:55 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 788 Joined: January 26, 2010 |
The program im thinking about buying has the option of OCR on scanned PDF's.. Ive been using the trial version, though I haven't looked the price..So the options are out there. I would bet the Adobe group would have this option. sean Sean Harrington
educate. |
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| seedlings |
Posted on 11/08/2010 7:56 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007 |
Quote John Despres wrote: Highly rated are: El Salvador, washed and high grown Costa Rica, washed and high grown Yemen, Mocha Mattari India Mysore Sumatra Mandheling Quote John Despres wrote: Google books has the 1922 edition on line. I don't disagree at all with these coffees, but sure there have been significant changes since 1922. CHAD Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover |
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