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 Dan's Direct-Flame Roaster
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| Dan |
Posted on 02/14/2013 10:44 AM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Thanks, everyone. I've been traveling, and will start compiling this data this weekend, and post the results once I've gotten all the cupping scores.
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
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| coffeeroastersclub |
Posted on 02/15/2013 9:37 PM
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 Pounder  Posts: 535 Joined: May 26, 2009 |
I got my beans today. Maybe a bit late because I had them shipped to my parcel pickup address. I apologize for this. However I do have some reports. I had #7 and #12. #7 had a darker appearance, seemed to me like a bit darker than Full City+ roast. #12 had a typical Full City roast appearance with no oils on surfaces of beans. I immediately tried the #7 in a brikka; I normally use a 6 cup dose from my Breville Smart Grinder ground to fine. The 6 cup dose overfilled the filter a bit, but I was able to make it settle by tapping the filter a few times on my countertop. The grounds were quite fluffy (more than normal whatever that means). When I did the brikka it choked a bit and I feel that I did not get the best out of the bean. Tomorrow I will do a Clever with it; and also do the same for the #12 batch. I think it will provide a better testing platform instead of the brikka. As a side note, the brikka #7 brew had a good kick of caffeine to it. Len "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
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| Dan |
Posted on 02/15/2013 9:44 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Thanks, Len, and don't forget, I'll need your 1-10 scale for dry aroma, wet aroma, body, and flavor. Dan 1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
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| yamhill |
Posted on 02/16/2013 11:02 AM
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 1/4 Pounder  Posts: 111 Joined: December 18, 2009 |
Dan, Thanks again for sharing your coffee. It's a privilege to see your roaster take shape and taste the output. sample 14 dry aroma 7 wet aroma 7 taste 6 body 7 sample 16 dry aroma 8 wet aroma 7 taste 7 body 8 Sample 14 had a much oilier appearance than 16, and 14 also appear a little darker. I tried a cupping approach to taste them last Saturday and added one of my roasts to the test - but a cold dulled my sense of smell and I couldn't make any meaningful distinctions. I used these samples through the week and prepared them for my morning espresso. My typical morning coffee includes a double espresso and a two-shot 10 oz latte. So, this week I prepared two double shots of espresso - one from each sample. I used half of each double for the taste test, and then combined the remaining for my latte. The results for the week were consistent - as noted above. I've read a couple of comments above about the aroma, and it's hard to emphasis how strong the aroma is. Despite dulled senses from my cold, I could smell the coffee through the unopened box. I set the mail for the day in my office and a couple of times walked back in and - "what's that smell? - Oh, I bet's that's the coffee samples." The roast smell and flavor is dominant in both samples. Neither sample was very nuanced or bright - although I could detect a small difference between the two. Thanks again for sharing your coffee and letting us learn along with you. John Quest M3 w/ Artisan via ESP32 emulating TC4. Previous roasters include: IMEX digirosto 1500, various popcorn popper roasters, and Behmor. Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano; previous espresso PIDed Rancilio Silvia. Also Chemex, Hario, and Melitta drip; Cory and Yama vacuum/siphon; bodum French press; aeropress; Mazzer Major, Hario mini, and PeDe Dienes grinders.
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| coffeeroastersclub |
Posted on 02/16/2013 11:03 AM
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Pounder Posts: 535 Joined: May 26, 2009 |
Quote Dan wrote: Thanks, Len, and don't forget, I'll need your 1-10 scale for dry aroma, wet aroma, body, and flavor. Dan #7 Dry aroma: 7 wet aroma: 6 body: 5 flavor: 5 The above was with a Clever. I will be going into the other batch #12 starting tomorrow. Len "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
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| coffeeroastersclub |
Posted on 02/19/2013 6:10 PM
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Pounder Posts: 535 Joined: May 26, 2009 |
#12 (I left beans in freezer until yesterday and did the test today on this batch) Dry aroma: 8 wet aroma: 8 body: 6 flavor: 8 The above was with also with a Clever. Len -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
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| Lawnmowerman |
Posted on 02/21/2013 1:25 AM
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 Pounder Posts: 546 Joined: March 14, 2012 |
The 12th. 8days from postmark. Tried cowboy coffee this time. My scores for sample4: aroma dry8. Aroma wet6. Body4. Flavor8. Sample10: aroma dry2 aroma wet5 body7 flavor6. Wifes scores: sample 4 aroma dry8 aroma wet 8 body7 flavor8. Sample10: aroma dry3 aroma wet5 body7 flavor7. The 15th: cowboy coffee again. Sample 4: aroma dry4 aroma wet4 body6 flavor7. Sample10: aroma dry2 aroma wet3 body3 flavor2. The 18th: sample 4 only. Drip brew. Final. This is starting to taste like dark roast. Aroma dry 2 aroma wet 2 flavor 2 body 2. The 19th: sample10 only. Cowboy coffee. Final. Mmm. Aroma dry 2 aroma wet 2 body 6 flavor 6. These coffees have both been up and down as they matured. Overall I liked 10 better. My wife ljked 4 better.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
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| Dan |
Posted on 02/21/2013 10:26 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Here are the results from the cupping. All told, the "population" was n=13. Not very big, but a good beginning. A special shoutout to LawnMowerMan who did multiple cuppings and enlisted his DW and neighbor, too. The coffee was Sweet Marias' Brazil Fazenda do Sertao Catuai. Here's the averages from our flame roasted (FR), sample roasted (SR) cuppings and SM's results, too. FR SR SM Dry Aroma 6.2 4.6 8.3 Wet Aroma 5.5 5.8 8.4 Body 5.7 6.9 8.5 Flavor 6.7 7.2 8.5 The only two factors statistically significant were dry aroma and body. Aroma in favor of the flame roaster (p=.04), and body in favor of the sample roaster (p=.01). Everything else was all over the place, so we can't trust those results. Consequently, we don't yet know if flame roasting does make for better coffee. One thing I do know is that it makes VERY aromatic coffee. You can smell it through two Ziploc freezer bags! At work, non-coffee drinkers want to taste it because it smells so good! The big problem I had with preparing these roasts was getting two roasters to produce the same profile. I started by trying to get the sample roaster to match the flame roaster's quick roast, but failed. Too bad, that would have made a better test. Since I was running out of beans and patience, I then decided to make the flame roaster match the sample roaster's profile. Big mistake. Any scientist would now that I just reversed the test with the control. When the weather warms, I want to repeat this, but start with putting the flame roaster's best foot forward and get the sample roaster to match its profile. I'll have to go manual, and will probably go through a lot of coffee to get there. But hey, its a hobby, right? If anyone has ideas to to make a better test let me know. 1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
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| yamhill |
Posted on 02/21/2013 11:54 AM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 111 Joined: December 18, 2009 |
Dan, Which samples were which? Mine were labeled 14 and 16. I was surprised by the strength of the aroma from the box, and I wonder if the packaging influenced the test. If I can smell it through the box and through the plastic bag, the "other" coffee will certainly pick up some of this aroma. John Quest M3 w/ Artisan via ESP32 emulating TC4. Previous roasters include: IMEX digirosto 1500, various popcorn popper roasters, and Behmor. Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano; previous espresso PIDed Rancilio Silvia. Also Chemex, Hario, and Melitta drip; Cory and Yama vacuum/siphon; bodum French press; aeropress; Mazzer Major, Hario mini, and PeDe Dienes grinders.
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| Dan |
Posted on 02/21/2013 12:35 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Oh, there's a little code I built in to the numbering. They were random, except that the smaller number of the two everyone received was the flame roasted sample, in your case, #14. I suppose that could be true about the aroma. Next time I'll isolate them better. 1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
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| coffeeroastersclub |
Posted on 02/21/2013 3:55 PM
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Pounder Posts: 535 Joined: May 26, 2009 |
Quote Dan wrote: Oh, there's a little code I built in to the numbering. They were random, except that the smaller number of the two everyone received was the flame roasted sample, in your case, #14. I suppose that could be true about the aroma. Next time I'll isolate them better. Dan, according to the code my #7 was the flame roast. It also had significant oil on the surface of the beans, unlike the non flame roast (mine was #12) . Do you think this was due to the roast method or do you think it was because it was actually roasted darker? If I were to do a visual comparison of each I would say that the flame roast #7 was roasted to Vienna and the #12 to full city. What are your thoughts on this? Len "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
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| Dan |
Posted on 02/21/2013 4:07 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
The oilyness surprised me. I haven't seen that on other beans I've flame roasted. The two beans were roasted to exactly the same temperature, just a few cracks into 2nd. When I dumped the beans there were exactly the same color, too, at Full City. Strange.
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
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| coffeeroastersclub |
Posted on 02/21/2013 4:09 PM
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Pounder Posts: 535 Joined: May 26, 2009 |
Quote Dan wrote: The oilyness surprised me. I haven't seen that on other beans I've flame roasted. The two beans were roasted to exactly the same temperature, just a few cracks into 2nd. When I dumped the beans there were exactly the same color, too, at Full City. Strange. Do you know if other samplers noticed the oilyness or was it just mine? Just curious. Len "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
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| Dan |
Posted on 02/21/2013 4:12 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Yeh, it was across the board. It wasn't evident in my samples, but then I kept them frozen. I think it was just this bean!
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
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| yamhill |
Posted on 02/22/2013 3:25 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 111 Joined: December 18, 2009 |
Dan, Did you record the temperature throughout both roasts? I'm curious about the temperature ramp and the impact from direct-to-bean radiant heat. If the end temperature of both was the same, could it be that the flame roasted beans had more heat exposure early in the roast? Back to the aroma, how distinct was the aroma difference to you? I wonder if it was more distinct before the shipping. John Quest M3 w/ Artisan via ESP32 emulating TC4. Previous roasters include: IMEX digirosto 1500, various popcorn popper roasters, and Behmor. Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano; previous espresso PIDed Rancilio Silvia. Also Chemex, Hario, and Melitta drip; Cory and Yama vacuum/siphon; bodum French press; aeropress; Mazzer Major, Hario mini, and PeDe Dienes grinders.
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| Dan |
Posted on 02/22/2013 3:45 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Quote Did you record the temperature throughout both roasts? No, no data logging. And, I doubt if it would be possible in the flame roaster anyway. The problem is that it would be near impossible to duplicate the same profile on different roasters, and if you did, you might not like the results. I'm afraid this is just going to be an apples and oranges kind of thing. Quote How distinct was the aroma difference to you? It was very distinct to me, and I've noticed this has applied to other beans I've roasted, too. It seems to be a flame roaster quality. One idea I had for a future test is to not try and do side-by-side comparisons, but just roast a bean everyone has some experience with and you can judge for yourselves. I'm thinking of using the standard Costa Rica Tarrazu Hacienda la Minita. 1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
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| coffeeroastersclub |
Posted on 02/22/2013 5:11 PM
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Pounder Posts: 535 Joined: May 26, 2009 |
Quote Dan wrote: Quote Did you record the temperature throughout both roasts? No, no data logging. And, I doubt if it would be possible in the flame roaster anyway. The problem is that it would be near impossible to duplicate the same profile on different roasters, and if you did, you might not like the results. I'm afraid this is just going to be an apples and oranges kind of thing. Quote How distinct was the aroma difference to you? It was very distinct to me, and I've noticed this has applied to other beans I've roasted, too. It seems to be a flame roaster quality. One idea I had for a future test is to not try and do side-by-side comparisons, but just roast a bean everyone has some experience with and you can judge for yourselves. I'm thinking of using the standard Costa Rica Tarrazu Hacienda la Minita. Dan, I agree with the apples and oranges analogy. I think your roaster is a perfect fit for a farmers market outdoor type of environment. The smell of the beans roasting plus the visuals of the beans tumbling through the flames would be an outstanding presentation. Question: Have you thought of a way to adapt to an indoor environment? Maybe a powerful ventilation hood over the machine? Seems to me that if that could be done it would also be a big draw for a coffee shop. Len "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
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| yamhill |
Posted on 02/22/2013 6:39 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 111 Joined: December 18, 2009 |
With a hand crank and a propane tank, it would be an awesome camping accessory. Just set it up next to your cook stove.
Quest M3 w/ Artisan via ESP32 emulating TC4. Previous roasters include: IMEX digirosto 1500, various popcorn popper roasters, and Behmor. Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano; previous espresso PIDed Rancilio Silvia. Also Chemex, Hario, and Melitta drip; Cory and Yama vacuum/siphon; bodum French press; aeropress; Mazzer Major, Hario mini, and PeDe Dienes grinders.
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| Dan |
Posted on 02/22/2013 7:14 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
I hadn't thought about those two ideas. It is fun to hear the beans tumbling and watch the huge flame at work. It would be a big draw at a farmer's market. Ditto with a smaller camper's model. Although, I'd go for the model with a 12VDC gearmotor powered by the camper! Like mine, both could be fueled by a 20 pound LP tank. Indoors is a possibility, you'd need a vent hood, but the cfm needed wouldn't be very high. Considering I started with two $10 stainless steel mixing bowls you can't go wrong. Good ideas! 1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
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| Lawnmowerman |
Posted on 02/23/2013 2:20 AM
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Pounder Posts: 546 Joined: March 14, 2012 |
When i go camping its usually in forested areas. So... To paraphrase a familiar icon: Remember. Only YOU can prevent coffee roaster related wildfires. Imagine all the explaining one would have to do. And would have to leave everything behind. Except the most precious items. Like the coffee roaster! For me at least, its much safer to bring along an adequate supply of ROASTED beans. And less cumbersome. I would also strongly advise against using any campsite water for brewing. Bring adequate non chlorinated water.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
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| jedovaty |
Posted on 02/24/2013 10:29 PM
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 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 225 Joined: October 31, 2011 |
Oh - these were Brazilian? That might explain why they were so smooth as espresso. I apologize for not taking part in scoring, I thought it'd be a lot easier to score than it was! The beans tasted almost the same to me, although they looked a little different and certainly smelled different. The smell made it through not only the ziplock, but also into the mailing box, and now a couple weeks out, it STILL smells that way. I really like the scent, it reminds me of steak. |
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| Dan |
Posted on 01/03/2014 12:15 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Thanks, Jed!
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
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