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 Brewer to Roaster..blower question...
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| greencardigan |
Posted on 07/10/2011 12:23 AM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 1168 Joined: November 21, 2010 |
Your chaff collector looks similar to what I was going to put in my RC. Except I was hoping to have cyclonic airflow by having some vanes to circulate the air after it enters the holes. I'd also like to see a diagram to better understand your airflow through the collector. Edited by greencardigan on 07/10/2011 12:24 AM |
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/10/2011 8:02 AM
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 1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
It is just a simple 'baffle' separator. I don't think a 'cyclone' is necessary for coffee. Besides all of the best 'separation' operations I've been involved with have a 'baffle separator' ahead of the cyclone/s, even some of the huge bag-houses in New Orleans and Iowa. My separator is made of two pieces: 1) A 2.25" x 6.77", 16oz, straight steel, 1970's, beer can with eight .375" holes spaced 45 degrees apart around the circumference. 2) The 'snout' (center piece) from an aluminum angel cake pan. The 'snout' opening is 7.56 sq. inches, and the 8 holes total 2.78 sq. inches. Therefore, the air stream/s enter the beer can, slam into the baffle, change direction, slow down, and (hopefully) the chaff falls to the bottom of the beer can. I have re-assembled the separator using the 'snout' from a 7 inch angel cake pan. It's diameter is much smaller and its opening is only 2.5 sq. inches. I don't think it will work because a baffle separator needs 2:1 exit:entrance area. After testing the small snout I will open the holes in the beer can to .50", re-install the large snout and give 1.5:1 a try. I am also building a 3.5" diameter version from the rest of the cocktail shaker. I'm quite confident this will do the job. If I'm going to re-use the air, I've got to clean it.
oldgearhead attached the following image:
Edited by oldgearhead on 07/10/2011 8:33 AM No oil on my beans...
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| allenb |
Posted on 07/10/2011 12:04 PM
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 Administrator  Posts: 3650 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
I think I understand. Instead of the centrifugal action to allow separation of fines and chaff coupled with the velocity drop of a cyclone you're achieving only the velocity drop side of the equation to drop out the chaff in the can. Very clever! Does the brand of beer cause any separation differences? 
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/11/2011 8:32 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
Quote allenb wrote: >snip<.... you're achieving only the velocity drop side of the equation to drop out the chaff in the can. Very clever! >snip< Not really clever. The 'baffle separator' is part of any large grain operation. Its usually positioned ahead of the cyclones. Now the Z-corp 3D printer, that's clever! No oil on my beans...
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/13/2011 11:17 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
Before i post today's results. I think a recap is in order. My new roaster is a 1.5KW. 120 VAC air roaster that has been designed to use a large amout of recycled air. It is built from a stainless steel 'junk' air-pot brewer, a cocktail shaker, some chrome sink drain, an old wood box, and a spa blower. In order to re-use air from the RC, the air must be cleaned. I am using some very fine mesh screens and a particle separator to do the air cleaning. My three previous atempts resulted in 900 grams of good coffee, 400 grams tossedd out, and plugged screens every time. Here is an image of my latest particle separator. Its the rest of the cocktail shaher:
oldgearhead attached the following image:
No oil on my beans...
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/13/2011 11:19 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
..and here is a shot of the intake and RC screens:
oldgearhead attached the following image:
No oil on my beans...
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/13/2011 11:22 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
...and here is today's roast with the new separator: [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVbFyJ_Dhe4[/video] No oil on my beans...
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/13/2011 11:28 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
Great news! The separator did not clog and the screens are clear:
oldgearhead attached the following image:
No oil on my beans...
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/13/2011 11:30 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
This looks like cornflakes and statc-cling (maybe the face of a doll?)
oldgearhead attached the following image:
No oil on my beans...
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/13/2011 11:31 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
...and this was inside the separator:
oldgearhead attached the following image:
No oil on my beans...
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/13/2011 11:32 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
..and the Thai coffe looks great!
oldgearhead attached the following image:
No oil on my beans...
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| JETROASTER |
Posted on 07/13/2011 11:49 AM
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 Administrator Posts: 1780 Joined: March 06, 2010 |
Really nice!!! So....you like it? -Scott |
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/13/2011 3:34 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
Yes Scott I like it a lot. However, I still have lots of work to do: 1) Install the DC drive. Ive been running with the varible-autotransformer since I discovered the pitfalls of the Dayton triac. 2) Rewire the control ladder, so that, the PID always displays. 3) Rework the top pieces, so the separator can be places in and out easier. 4) Install a BMT probe in the RC. By the way, this is how I evac the beans: [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDQoVGO9Ac4[/video] No oil on my beans...
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| danw2002 |
Posted on 07/13/2011 4:19 PM
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 1/4 Pounder  Posts: 73 Joined: June 12, 2011 |
very sweet:Clap:, i need something like that on the top of mine, as i am also going to use RC Air recurc on mine, it looks like a cocktail shaker and part of a cake pan tube, what else and about the hole size and location, and the screen is on the 'red' side in the pic right?...how fast do the beans cool, i take it you just shut the heat off and keep the blower on to cool? thanks for all your hard work, it helps us all...... Quote oldgearhead wrote: ...and this was inside the separator: Dan Williams...WHAAAT!?!?!? I have NOT had enough coffee.....
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| greencardigan |
Posted on 07/13/2011 5:26 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1168 Joined: November 21, 2010 |
That's a very nice looking roaster you've built! I wonder why so much chaff gets stuck outside of the separator? Is it static or just an airflow issue? So this is 1.5KW with a 1 pound load in a 5" tube? |
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/13/2011 5:44 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
It will roast 500 grams to FC in 92 DF ambient. I don't think so in 40 DF. A Corning Bread Tube is 14" x 3.75" (OD). Most of my roasts will be 375 grams because they will fit in a standard one quart Mason jar. I'm pretty sure its the static developed between the chaff, glass, and steel that sticks to 'corn flakes' to the outside wall of the separator. . No oil on my beans...
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/13/2011 8:17 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
Quote danw2002 wrote: >snip<.., it looks like a cocktail shaker and part of a cake pan tube, what else and about the hole size and location, and the screen is on the 'red' side in the pic right?...how fast do the beans cool, i take it you just shut the heat off and keep the blower on to cool? thanks for all your hard work, it helps us all...... Quote oldgearhead wrote: ...and this was inside the separator: Right you are, a 3.5" cocktail shaker and the center of an angel cake pan. Like most baffle separators the outlet area is 2x the inlet area. Yes, I just leave the air on for an extra 5 minutes to cool. There are many different size of angel cake pan centers. The one I will end up with is 3.5" long and 1.8" diameter.. The fine screen, located on the air inlet screen is from a Zach & Dani's... No oil on my beans...
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| danw2002 |
Posted on 07/14/2011 1:50 AM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 73 Joined: June 12, 2011 |
Great, that is what i am going to do, as i am using the same corning tube as my upper RC, one more piece to the puzzle...now my air valves...need air gates to control my air, both intake , exhaust, and recurc from the RC...any ideas? Quote oldgearhead wrote: Right you are, a 3.5" cocktail shaker and the center of an angel cake pan. Like most baffle separators the outlet area is 2x the inlet area. Yes, I just leave the air on for an extra 5 minutes to cool. There are many different size of angel cake pan centers. The one I will end up with is 3.5" long and 1.8" diameter.. The fine screen, located on the air inlet screen is from a Zach & Dani's... Dan Williams...WHAAAT!?!?!? I have NOT had enough coffee.....
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/15/2011 10:48 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
One of the big lessons from this exercise has been about the drill bits required fo both the cocktail shaker and the Bloomfield brewer: " The cobalt, tungston, Kolbalt, and etc. twist drills that you find at both Ace and the big box stores are worthless on stainless steel. You must use split-point, carbide-tipped machine tool bits for the initial break through. The small Irwine step-drill works after that, but you got to keep it cooled with oil.. No oil on my beans...
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| JETROASTER |
Posted on 07/15/2011 11:18 AM
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Administrator Posts: 1780 Joined: March 06, 2010 |
I was never a machinist....but I talked to a few. The oil makes an unbelievable difference!! Thanks for a great project, I learned some cool stuff! -Scott |
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/25/2011 1:10 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
I made a couple of small changes last week: 1) I got rid of the step down ring that was located at the top of the RC, so that, I could easily install and remove the larger (3.5" od) chaff separator. 2) I moved the inlet holes in the sepapator down about an inch. Separator works very with wet-processed beans. I haven't tried dry-processed yet. 3) I realized I didn't explain the 'cooling' position of the air-recycle chamber (Brewer top). Basically its just parked in its 'up' position. The mods and the cooling postion are shown in the attached image. My next mod will be the installation of a $20 DC drive (KB) for the blower motor. Why a drive? Because I can: 1) Set min speed. 2) Set max speed. 3) Set current limit. 4) HP, torque, ramp, etc. are also pot settings.
oldgearhead attached the following image:
Edited by oldgearhead on 07/25/2011 2:03 PM No oil on my beans...
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| danw2002 |
Posted on 07/25/2011 11:56 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 73 Joined: June 12, 2011 |
Ok, looks like you just added a ring to the shaker to move it down? is that how you got the holes 'down'? what is the relationship between the outside holes and the inner tube, you used a part from the cake pan right? how far down does it set in the shaker? will higher air flow mess it up? thanks. BTW, would the DC drive work for my Kirby VC motor? if so, what model is it? or where are the specs to build it myself...thanks again for your time, this is really looking good, keep it up.... Quote oldgearhead wrote: I made a couple of small changes last week: 1) I got rid of the step down ring that was located at the top of the RC, so that, I could easily install and remove the larger (3.5" od) chaff separator. 2) I moved the inlet holes in the sepapator down about an inch. Separator works very with wet-processed beans. I haven't tried dry-processed yet. 3) I realized I didn't explain the 'cooling' position of the air-recycle chamber (Brewer top). Basically its just parked in its 'up' position. The mods and the cooling postion are shown in the attached image. My next mod will be the installation of a $20 DC drive (KB) for the blower motor. Why a drive? Because I can: 1) Set min speed. 2) Set max speed. 3) Set current limit. 4) HP, torque, ramp, etc. are also pot settings. Dan Williams...WHAAAT!?!?!? I have NOT had enough coffee.....
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/26/2011 9:24 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
That's just 600 DF fiberglass tape that covers the upper holes in the separator. I made the top row of hoes to coincide with the vertical center of the 'snout' from the angel cake pan. The 'snout' extends 3.75" into the cocktail shaker and the lower set of holes are 3.0" down from the opening of the shaker. I will make an attempt to cut off a portion of top of the shaker in the near future, because it really is a bit too big on the outside. I just don't know if I can clamp it well enough to use my trusty Ridgid pipe cutter on it. My DC drive is a KBIC-120. Its about 4.5" x 3.5" x 1.25". It's max output is 90 VDC. KB makes units that go to 130 VDC, but they are bulkier and more expensive. A 'Universal' motor, sometimes refered to as AC/DC may be ran with either AC or DC. I think if your motor is less than 2 HP it's probably a 'Universal' motor. No oil on my beans...
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 07/26/2011 11:59 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
Here is a roast from Monday. Its an absolutely great bean. Tastes like nuts and chocolate. I wish you could smell it... Colombia Cauca EP, Pescador [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFF1EqxvABI[/video] No oil on my beans...
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| dja |
Posted on 07/26/2011 4:15 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 701 Joined: November 07, 2008 |
OGH were did you get the beans from DAvid I pour Iron and roast Coffee Beans
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette |
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