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Brewer to Roaster..blower question...
JETROASTER
Really nice machine! It'll probably run forever.


......So whatcha' makin' next?:) -Scott
 
oldgearhead

Quote

freshbeans wrote:
>snip<

......So whatcha' makin' next?:) -Scott


Even though most of the work is done and its working better than my wildest dreams (at least through the 1st 20 pounds), there are some loose ends:
1) Chaff collection - its not bad, but I think I can make it better.

2) Air distribution - I have complete control of the 'spouting' at the start of every roast, but a lot of 'stacking' at the end. The roasts are fine, nice and even but I would like the preserve the 'fountain' and more control throuhout the roast. Should I try blocking some holes?
oldgearhead attached the following image:
baffle_holes.jpg

Edited by oldgearhead on 08/26/2011 9:13 AM
No oil on my beans...
 
JETROASTER
You could try blocking some of the outer perimeter....focus thru the center, but I think blocking part of one side will likely work better. It will put a high velocity stream up the sidewall.
....It wastes a little heat, but late in the roast....it may be a plus! Good luck,

....or dial a perf? -Scott
Edited by JETROASTER on 08/26/2011 9:22 AM
 
dja

Quote



Even though most of the work is done and its working better than my wildest dreams (at least through the 1st 20 pounds), there are some loose ends:
1) Chaff collection - its not bad, but I think I can make it better.

2) Air distribution - I have complete control of the 'spouting' at the start of every roast, but a lot of 'stacking' at the end. The roasts are fine, nice and even but I would like the preserve the 'fountain' and more control throuhout the roast. Should I try blocking some holes?


I had the same problem when I first started building my roaster and got it to where I could roast in it.

The beans swell up and that makes them want to start grabbing onto the glass in tha 3.75" tube, then they start to bouncing. that was the main reason for me going to a larger tube.

I did my first 2 pound roast yesterday in my roaster with the 5 inch tube, things were going great, I could control the plume with no prolbem untill the roast was almost done when the beans had expanded and the oils were just about to start poping out. Beans went to bouncing. tried to lower the air to stop it but no luck. Lower air flow just caused a lower bounce.

now the tube had smoke and oil in it from the last roast but I don't think that had anything to do with the bouncing at the end of the roast. That two pounds of beans after they expanded and were flowing as they should of were taking up almost half of the 5 X 16 tube. And there in lies the problem I do belive, I may have to find the pref plate that works in the 6 inch tube and fire it up with two pounds in it and see if it does the same thing.

I do know that the 5 inch tube with 1 3/4 pounds of beans in it I don't see near the amount of bouncing that I do with the 2 pounds.

Sorry I didn't do any video, but you might check some of the first videos on my build an see if the action is the same towards the end of the roast.

Thats my dollars worth.
I pour Iron and roast Coffee BeansThumbsUp
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette
 
JETROASTER
You could be the first guy on the block with a variable distributor !!!! By turning clockwise, the outer perimeter holes become obstructed as the center holes become 'larger'.

I'm full of ideas (read incomplete ideas) -Scott

(my apologies for the brutal drawing)
JETROASTER attached the following image:
twin_baffle_holes.jpg

Edited by JETROASTER on 08/26/2011 11:25 AM
 
oldgearhead
Well I've decided the 'spouting-to-stacking' transition really doesn't show up until late into first crack and the beans appear to be evenly roasted, soI'm not going to mess with the holes at this time.

The big news is I got the BMT probe installed and I tried it today. I installed it, away from the center and 3 inches buried in the greens at start up.

I ran the temp controller at 100% for the entire 19 minutes of this 410 gram roast. Instead of turning down the air speed when first crack got going, I increased the speed to cool things down a bit. I've about decided not to bother with ramp/soak, and just use my recycle flap and the blower speed knob for most beans..
oldgearhead attached the following image:
bmt_1.jpg

Edited by oldgearhead on 09/16/2011 3:15 PM
No oil on my beans...
 
JETROASTER
How do you like the readings so far? -Scott
 
oldgearhead

Quote

freshbeans wrote:
How do you like the readings so far? -Scott


I never did figure out why the ET readings from inside the sink drain pipe were so low (around 350F at end of 12-16 min full city roast). However, this BMT probe, located inside the RC read 400F when first crack started 10 minures into the roast. Yellow-tan (see above photo) at 374F is either a mistake in my recording or my early ROR too a bit steep. Next time I'll set the camera to record both the beans and the temperature, and have it fire every minute or do a video..
No oil on my beans...
 
dja
OGH I see the roaster is alive and well, or anyway it sounds like it is.

I wonder if I could get a sketch of how your latest chaff collection system is put together, I don't mind the smoke as I can blow that outside when its terrible cold in the winter, but that chaff just gets into everything if I do and uncontained roast in the house.

DJA
I pour Iron and roast Coffee BeansThumbsUp
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette
 
allenb

Quote

oldgearhead wrote:

Quote

freshbeans wrote:
How do you like the readings so far? -Scott


I never did figure out why the ET readings from inside the sink drain pipe were so low (around 350F at end of 12-16 min full city roast). However, this BMT probe, located inside the RC read 400F when first crack started 10 minures into the roast. Yellow-tan (see above photo) at 374F is either a mistake in my recording or my early ROR too a bit steep. Next time I'll set the camera to record both the beans and the temperature, and have it fire every minute or do a video..


On my electric fired fluidbed if I move my ET thermocouple even slightly I can end up in an area with a much lower temperature compared to areas directly above the coils which will be a much higher than average temp. I had to find a sweet spot in between the two extremes to end up with a usable reading. It's hard to get a good number without having a large mixing zone between element and RC.

If possible, shoot us a time/BT profile of the roast.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgearhead

Quote

dja wrote:
OGH I see the roaster is alive and well, or anyway it sounds like it is.

I wonder if I could get a sketch of how your latest chaff collection system is put together, I don't mind the smoke as I can blow that outside when its terrible cold in the winter, but that chaff just gets into everything if I do and uncontained roast in the house.

DJA


_Exploded view,left-to-right:
1 - 200mm 'K' TC
2 - 5/16" nuts
1 - 5/16" washer
1 - 5/16" silicone 'O' ring
1 - 5/16" threaded rod
1 - 3.5" diameter cocktail shaker (body)
1 - Angel Cake center post
1 - 5/16" toggle nut
1 - strainer

David - Of course you could just use the srainer and vacuum the chaff off the top after you end the roast. That works well also..
oldgearhead attached the following image:
chaffcollecter.jpg

Edited by oldgearhead on 09/19/2011 4:05 PM
No oil on my beans...
 
oldgearhead
>snip<

If possible, shoot us a time/BT profile of the roast.

Allen[/quote]

Profile - Here is a list of what I know at this point:
1)The roaster can take one pound of beans to 300F in 4 minutes using 100% heat and 40% recycled air from the RC. However, I choose to roast 410 grams loads and go slower to 300F. So I start at 70% heat and 28% recycled air. This gets me to 300F in 5 minutes, and a drying time of 2 minutes (230-300F).
2 - BMT (K-TC) probe performance - It reads 400F at start of first crack, which is perfecct for me. However, it cannot pin-point the exothermic phase, kineticaly. as the probe in my Z&D can, because there is just too much air in the beans at that point in the roast. However, 440F sure does look like full city. I might try an RTD later on.

Sumatra Gayo Lintang (9-26-2011):
1) Heat 70%, Recycle 28%, - 60F - 300F = T0 + 5 min
2) Heat 90%, Recycle 40%, - 300F - 400F = T0 + 14 min
3) Heat 80%, Recycle, 28% - 400F - 440F = T0 + 19min

Next time I'll ride the air speed control a bit lower in phase 2.
oldgearhead attached the following image:
dsc_0268.jpg

No oil on my beans...
 
dja
sorry about not answering sooner, I roast outside so I don't really have a chaff problem I let the nebighors keep all they want. I have to 5/8 inch vent holes in the top plate that are suppose to have sliding damper on them I said suppose too. the chaff is blown out thru them and the fill/dump door as it has a small crack under it. now if I am roasting say 1.75 lbs them the chaff may start sticking and build up around the holes and block them off so that there is chaff in the tube when done roasting and cooling down.

David
I pour Iron and roast Coffee BeansThumbsUp
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette
 
oldgearhead
A geek on another coffee forum asked about the cost of my roaster,
so I added it up:
$510. for the parts (note: I over-paid for the brewer)
$66.00 for drill bits and Bandaids.

I should say I called in a favor from a machinist friend for some of the more difficult cuts. Furthermore, David (dja) made a couple of great parts for a very reasonable fee...

I'll try to post some photos of the baffle I'm using to keep the inlet air temperatures in the 150-160F range during the current cool spell..

Happy Holidays!
Edited by oldgearhead on 11/30/2011 11:56 AM
No oil on my beans...
 
oldgearhead
Merry Christmas/Happy New Year!
We traded the traditional Indiana turkey Thanksgiving for tacos on
Myrtle Beach and dinner in Charlestown. The 70F weather was refreshing.

Update to the roaster:
1) Reliability -Its still working fine, nothing has failed.

2) Chaff - I am now able to track my roasts using the manifold TC. So,
I am using only the 20 mesh screen, with no chaff collector or BMT. I simply vacuum off the chaff after the roast cools. The collector was only 50-60% efficient and I had to vacuum some anyway, so this saves a step.

3) RC expelled air/intake air mixer - I have finished the engineering of the ambient air sliding door. I now have a setting for 30F, 40F, 50F, and 60+. This allows me to maintain the inlet air at 150F (+-8F) from the end of drying to finish. I still need to fab the pieces and install it. In the meantime I'm using gaffer's tape.

4) Summary:
Roast loads - 400-500 grams
Drying phase = 3 -5 minutes
Ramp to 1C = 3-4 minutes
Finish = 3-5 minutes
Cooling = 4 minutes

5) Current draw = 2250VA
oldgearhead attached the following image:
dsc_0095.jpg

Edited by oldgearhead on 12/21/2011 2:43 PM
No oil on my beans...
 
seedlings
Chaff collection is for the birds.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
oldgearhead
Last Monday the roaster preformed very well throughout its big test. What was the test? The ambient temperature was 36F. I knew when I completed the design it might be marginal in below 40F ambient temperature. After all, I'm roasting one pound of green coffee with a 1500 watt heat source.

I left the mixing door at the 40F setting and roasted one pound of Sumatra Gayo Lintang and one pound of the excellent A-1 Harrar. The
roast times were 12 and 14 minutes respectively. However, the best news is the intake air screen was 158F at the 4 minute point for both roasts.
(Note: all my roasts are full-city, no oil allowed)

The mixing door works! If I position the door based on the ambient temperature, then the intake air will be between 150F and 160F.

The roaster in now over 6 months old and still roasting 2-4 pounds a week.

This spring (March), I'll remove the blower from its rubber case and see how much tar build-up I'm getting on the inside. However, If the inlet air PVC pipe is any indication, it won't be too bad..
No oil on my beans...
 
allenb
It's great to hear that recirc is possible without having to use an industrial high temp blower.

I think you are providing valuable research for all of us who want to be able to roast more than a 1/4 lb batch (in a fluidbed) with household 120 volts. I'm hoping many more at HRO will be trying their hand with a recirculating fluidbed build and who knows, with enough folks in the mix there might be further breakthroughs allowing simplified designs.

Keep the posts coming

Allen
Edited by allenb on 01/07/2012 1:32 PM
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgearhead

Quote

allenb wrote:
>snip<

I think you are providing valuable research for all of us who want to be able to roast more than a 1/4 lb batch (in a fluidbed) with household 120 volts. I'm hoping many more at HRO will be trying their hand with a recirculating fluidbed build and who knows, with enough folks in the mix there might be further breakthroughs allowing simplified designs.

Keep the posts coming

Allen


Allen,
I cannot quite use a standard 20A circuit, unless I run the blower with a varible-autotransformer (16.5A total). The blower pulls 2 amps on the Variac and 5+ amps on the DC drive. I prefer the torque control of the DC drive, therefore I'm running the unit on a 30A 120V circuit pulling 19.5A..
I have roasted a few one-pound batches of decafe with the heat energy fixed at 1200 watts. So 120V/20A is possible, but not important to me at this time....
No oil on my beans...
 
allenb
To be honest, to be able to do 1/2 or 3/4 lb with household 120-20 amp circuit breakers in a fluidbed would be a huge improvement and well worth the extra work of building in a recirc feature.

Many folks abandon fluidbeds for this reason alone. Two pots of coffee per roast after a while can be a little much.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
prs16001

Quote

oldgearhead wrote:
Things are moving right along on this project. I only need to receive three parts and drill 3 holes before I start testing. Here is a copy of my final (120 VAC version) bill of material:
Brewer_Roaster_BOM

+ 1 - Bloomfield 8773 (Junk) Coffee Brewer
+ 1 - Wooden box 30?x18?x13?
+ 4 - 2.5? Castors
+ 4 feet of 2? Schedule 40 PVC pipe
+ 1 - 3 inch Schedule 40 PVC flange
+ 1 - 3 inch-to-two inch Schedule 40 PVC adapter
+ 8 feet of 2.5? flex hose
+ 1 - 2? Schedule 40 PVC ?T?, for bean-evac-to quart jar
+ 2 - Two inch Schedule 40 PVC couplers
+ 1 - 1-1/2 HP spa blower (booted)
+ 6 - ?T? nuts (10-24)
+ 2 - 1? x 3? piano hinges
+ 1 lot machine screws, washers, and nuts
+ 1 - 12?x 1.5? Chrome sink drain extension
+ 1 - 3.5? Stainless steel cocktail shaker
+ 1 - Master HAS-043K heat gun element
+ 1 lot Permatex Red silicone
+ 1 lot hookup wire
+ 1 - 14/3 Power cord
+ 1 - 7.75? piece of 35 mm DIN rail
+ 10 - 8 mm DIN terminals
+ 1 - Ice cube relay & socket
+ 1- Nema 4x Enclosure 9?x 7? x 4?
+ 1 - Extech VFL PID Controller
+ 1 - Tyco 50A SSR
+ 1 - Brew switch (momentary rocker)
+ 1 - Heater stop switch (momentary N.C. push button)
+ 1 - Corning bread tube (3.75? x 14?)
+ 1 - 3? x 3? Aluminum turbo hose coupler
+ 1 - Zach & Dani chaff screen and baffle-type separator
+ 3 - Very nice RC parts, custom built by DJA
+ 1 - Lot of silicone o-rings
+ 1 - Box of Band-Aids
___ 1 - Tyco 30A circuit breaker
___ 3 - DIN Ground terminals
___ 1 - Green Pilot light
___ 1 - Main switch (maintained rocker)
___ 1 - Dayton 4X796B motor speed controller
___ 1 - Shop vac hose and wand assembly (1.25 inch) for bean-evac-to-quart jar

Cheers,
OGH


Hello,

I'm replicating your build,specifically the heater manifold. I'm trying to locate the cocktail shaker, do you have the make and model of the shaker you used?

Thanks
Pete
 
oldgearhead
No model number available its a 3.5" diameter stainless from Target

No oil on my beans...
 
lmclaren

Quote

allenb wrote:
It's great to hear that recirc is possible without having to use an industrial high temp blower.

Allen


Oldgearhead, if the temps for the blower are getting a bit high or you want more, you may also be able to create a basic venturi by injecting you hot air from the blower / heater into a T piece with the return from the top of the roast chamber, similar to the way I inject cold air to cool my exhaust.

Similar to this but instead the LHS would be hot air from the blower / heater and the top would be from the RC.

lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EfXafhkL6sU/TpK2c52isEI/AAAAAAAAA8c/FkzvwyTltlU/s800/DSC03157.JPG
 
oldgearhead
Imclaren - The unit has been in use for 8 months now, and
the four 1/4" bleed holes located between the blower outlet and the heater inlet have done the job, so far. I don't know how much the motor will take but its been getting along fine with 150F inlet temperatures. (I know the PVC doesn't like 165F)

When the motor fails I'll just 'pop' in a new one, because this one had seen several hours of hot tub abuse before I
rescued it. I mainly bought it for the rubber boot motor housing.
B)


No oil on my beans...
 
lmclaren
no problem, glad it is working for you.

best regards

Lee
 
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