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Page 1 of 2: 12
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 Green Bean Storage
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| Third Crack |
Posted on 05/13/2011 6:55 AM
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 1/4 Pounder  Posts: 51 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Joined: September 17, 2010 |
I store most of my beans in vacuum seal bags at room temp. I see that Sweet Marias indicates that is a good method for wet processed beans but not so good for dry processed beans which do better just in cloth bags. Does anybody have any comments on the dry processed bean storage and why vac sealing is not a good method? Bob |
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| seedlings |
Posted on 05/13/2011 8:51 AM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 4226 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Joined: June 27, 2007 |
How long do you store the beans? If you're using them within a couple of months the method of storage won't be as important. If you want to keep you 2011 crop for 3 years... then I'm not so sure. CHAD Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover |
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| Third Crack |
Posted on 05/13/2011 9:00 AM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 51 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Joined: September 17, 2010 |
Sometimes I will purchase a larger quantity and the storage time could stretch out to a year or so. I just never heard of the dry-processed bean issue until I read it at Sweet Marias. I suspect that the vac packs at room temp for a year with any bean is probably a decent method. |
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| JETROASTER |
Posted on 05/13/2011 9:06 AM
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 Administrator  Posts: 1774 Location: Joined: March 06, 2010 |
My un-educated hunch is that on unwashed beans, any leftover mucilage/pulp would offer a breeding ground for funky stuff. -Scott |
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| Third Crack |
Posted on 05/13/2011 9:16 AM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 51 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Joined: September 17, 2010 |
That make sense. For normal storage cloth bags may be a good bet with DP beans to allow some air circulation. I may try vac sealing and freezing for long storage and see what I think..that may inhibit the funk. |
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| farmroast |
Posted on 05/13/2011 9:40 AM
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 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 295 Location: Amherst,Ma Joined: December 20, 2006 |
I find vac. packing of DP's even more important. I want as little oxygen working on that surface mucilage as possible. Before grainpro and vac packing many DP ethiopians lost it during shipment
Edited by farmroast on 05/13/2011 9:45 AM Ed B.
DreamRoast 1kg roaster, Levers, Hand Mills http://coffee-roa...gspot.com/ |
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| Third Crack |
Posted on 05/13/2011 11:12 AM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 51 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Joined: September 17, 2010 |
This is what I found at Sweet Marias...I guess that vac or GP (Grain Pro) packaging can be dependent on circumstances (never an easy answer!). From Sweet Marias: The benefits are more evident with some coffees than others. Dry Process coffees should only be packaged this way in special circumstances. GP and Vac Pack can DAMAGE DP coffees, and ones that have not undergone a full rest in parchment (reposo). If the coffee has high water activity, it will harm the cup quality. Anyway, as far as GP we feel they add 3-6 months to the shelf life, conservatively, Vac pack has longer term benefits if they are multi-laminate bags ... 9 months. A lot of this is still developing as the industry starts to adopt these materials. In a way we here at Sweet Maria's are attached to the burlap bags- since so many are decorated in a lovely way and they are so authentic, in a way that a Mylar or plastic bag and a cardboard box can not be. Home Storage It is not necessary, but if you have a home vacuum sealer you may consider vacuum packaging any lots you want to store a longer time. It will protect the flavors of the bean, especially in humid environments. In our experience, vacuum packaging works best on wet-processed coffees; dry processed coffees seem to do better in jute or burlap storage. Some folks, like specialty coffee pioneer named George Howell is experimenting with deep freezing green coffee but I don't think that is practical. |
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| Koffee Kosmo |
Posted on 05/15/2011 3:18 AM
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 Administrator Posts: 1560 Location: Brisbane Australia Joined: December 31, 2008 |
I have an older bar fridge that does not work any more for keeping beer cold (motor dead) So I use it to store my green beans The beans themselves are in cotton bags KK I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information https://forum.hom...ad_id=1142 https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0 Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/ Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex, (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster. |
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| John Despres |
Posted on 05/15/2011 3:48 PM
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 Administrator Posts: 2221 Location: West Michigan Joined: January 09, 2008 |
I've been using a vacuum packaging system for all my greens for three years now and have noticed no degradation whatsoever in any beans, be they wet or dry processed. I vac seal them in half pound batches immediately upon arrival. I have a few that are two years old and taste as wonderful as they did when I first roasted them. Today I'm enjoying Yemen Mocha Sharasi from the '09 season and it's excellent! One of my favorites. I wonder how old Tom's notes are. I seem to remember his surprise at the extremely high quality of Farmroast's entry in this year's homeroaster competition. If I remember correctly, Ed entered a DP that had been vac sealed and frozen for over 2 years. Vac sealing works for me. Your results may vary. John Respect the bean.
John Despres Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers. |
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| flemingjackr |
Posted on 05/15/2011 5:06 PM
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 Newbie  Posts: 3 Location: Joined: April 09, 2011 |
So does anyone know if storing green beans in a brown paper bag would be fine? I cant imagine having them longer than 6 months... I am storing them in my basement in a cabinet but I just started roasting so I haven't had them down there long enough to tell if it matters. Thanks jack |
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| seedlings |
Posted on 05/16/2011 7:59 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Joined: June 27, 2007 |
Quote flemingjackr wrote: So does anyone know if storing green beans in a brown paper bag would be fine? I cant imagine having them longer than 6 months... I am storing them in my basement in a cabinet but I just started roasting so I haven't had them down there long enough to tell if it matters. Thanks jack You might be better served using a ziplock plastic bag instead of paper to store for more than a month. CHAD Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover |
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| Third Crack |
Posted on 05/18/2011 8:57 AM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 51 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Joined: September 17, 2010 |
For what it's worth I am doing a small experiment on storage of dry processed beans since the Sweet Maria's info intrigued me regarding the potential issues with vac packing. It is on one bean (hence not a good experiment)...Ethiopia Sidamo Guji Cooperative. I received a shipment of their new arrival and roasted one immediately and then stored the rest via cloth bag, vac pack at room temp and vac pack in freezer. The original roast was very good with lots of fruit typical of this coffee type. It would have been nice to get a real fruit bomb but like I said this is a small experiment and I'll go with what I have. The most likely outcome is: inconclusive... but we shall see. I took good notes and I will go back to the others in several months and run the same roast profile and look for any major differences between the original roast and also between the three methods. If I get anything other than ambiguity, I will report the results. For any fans of DP beans I would recommend the Guji...can be had at Roast Masters. Bob |
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| Third Crack |
Posted on 08/29/2011 6:39 AM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 51 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Joined: September 17, 2010 |
I wanted to pursue the comments of Sweet Marias that it may be detrimental to store dry-processed coffee beans in vacuum pack (due to sometimes higher water activity in DP beans). I did a very poor one bean test where for about 3-1/2 months I stored an Ethiopian DP bean in cloth bag, vac pack at room temp and vac pack in the freezer. This was strictly looking at shorter term storage that might cause problems not long-term storage issues. I know that I will get big push back on these results but they are what they are. The cloth bag storage showed no change in flavor profile. Big fruit flavor dominated with good balancing chocolate and nut flavors just like the profile when the beans arrived (new crop). Both the vac pack methods showed a big decrease in the fruit flavor but the rest of the profile was similar. The vac pack at RT was almost totally devoid of the characteristic fruitiness while I could pick up a hint in the freezer bean. I'm having trouble believing it also but will store any DP beans I plan to keep under 6 months in cloth...just in case! Ok John...you first! Bob |
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| John Despres |
Posted on 08/29/2011 6:50 AM
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Administrator Posts: 2221 Location: West Michigan Joined: January 09, 2008 |
Excellent, Bob! John Respect the bean.
John Despres Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers. |
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| Dan |
Posted on 08/29/2011 7:56 AM
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 1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Location: West Lafayette, Indiana, USA Joined: October 24, 2005 |
I have to wonder if the culprit working on those vac pack samples was the vacuum itself, not the moisture content. After all, freezing should have stopped any moisture related flavor alterations. Vacuum increases degassing of volatiles. If true, then it apparently happens rather quickly or at a low level of negative pressure, since freezing didn't stall the process. It would be interesting to try the same test with the same bean, but where you only hold the vacuum for, say, a day or so. |
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| yamhill |
Posted on 08/29/2011 11:48 AM
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 1/4 Pounder Posts: 111 Location: Joined: December 18, 2009 |
Bob, Thanks for sharing the experiment and observations. I like Dan's questions. I'm also wondering if the drawing of the vacuum itself cause the change in flavor. Which then leads me to other questions like the following. If these flavors and the volatiles that deliver them can't survive vacuum at low temperature, how can they ever survive a roast? Should we should all be logging the atmospheric pressure and roasting chamber pressure in our roasts? Is this pointing to a reason for air roasting having brighter flavor notes -- because of higher roasting chamber pressure? just wondering... John |
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| Third Crack |
Posted on 08/29/2011 12:33 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 51 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Joined: September 17, 2010 |
I like all your comments. The results really don't make sense to me and I would caution how they are interpreted. John vac packs his DP beans and is happy with the results. The reason I posted was that the results were so cut and dry. There are some chemical or enzymatic processes that can go on and maybe confining the higher water activity, dry-processed beans in a vac pack could promote enzymatic break down of molecules that give some of the intense fruit flavors. That is a real swag but I think about the blueberry bomb I had a year or so ago and then in subsequent roasts (from vac packs) the blueberry was largely gone. These could be less stable molecules subject to further breakdown and this could be hastened by certain storage techniques. This does not explain why freezing did not halt any of this activity....which brings me back to cautioning on how valid the results are. Bob |
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| Unta |
Posted on 08/29/2011 12:45 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 788 Location: Fitzwilliam,New Hampshire Joined: January 26, 2010 |
What type of freezer? sean Sean Harrington
educate. |
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| Third Crack |
Posted on 08/29/2011 1:57 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 51 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Joined: September 17, 2010 |
small, home chest freezer. Bob |
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| Koffee Kosmo |
Posted on 08/30/2011 11:20 PM
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Administrator Posts: 1560 Location: Brisbane Australia Joined: December 31, 2008 |
We sell beans on the KK web site The bags we use are resealable Mylar coffee bags fitted with a one way valve There are 2 reasons for this The bag expels gases outward and they are good at stopping UV sunlight For home roasters these bags can then be used to store the roasted beans over and over again But as I said above I use an old bar fridge at home KK I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information https://forum.hom...ad_id=1142 https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0 Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/ Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex, (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster. |
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