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Coava Kone
Third Crack
Has anyone tried the new Coava Kone stainless steel coffee filter? It is made to fit Chemex and other pour over pots.
Bob
John Despres
A lot of money for little return is what I understand. Buy a Swiss Gold for coffee just as good.

I was bummed to hear it, because I really wanted one...

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
Third Crack
I use the Swiss Gold filter with my Technivorm and like it. I wasn't aware that they made a filter that fit a Chemex which is why I was intrigued about the Coava. Bob
John Despres
With the Swiss Gold, you're all set, I think!

ThumbsUp
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
endlesscycles
There are no Swiss gold filters to fit Chemex.

Personally, I don't see the value in cone shaped brew beds or non paper filters. They both seem like steps in the wrong direction, if the direction is flavor clarity and balance.
-Marshall Hance
Asheville, NC
JETROASTER
Marshall,
Are you more offended by the cone shape for extraction or the absence of the paper? -Scott
Unta
Cone shape bed design wont allow for balanced extraction. Paper vs metal, I prefer paper. Though I have no data to support why its better. Just feel like its a better filter of fines. Probably with a TDS you could make an arguement, if you cared to argue. :)

Sean
Sean Harrington
educate.
Ringo
I have a version 2 Kone filter for my AP. I like the cup better when I use this filter, the body and aroma feels bigger. I use it inverted so I think I get more of the oils in the cup. I really like AP coffee but it takes too much thinking in the morning. So it get used on the weekends.

Ringo
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
endlesscycles

Quote

freshbeans wrote:
Marshall,
Are you more offended by the cone shape for extraction or the absence of the paper? -Scott


Probably the absence of paper more so. Letting fines form colloids with the flavor oils severely detracts from both flavor clarity and the unique body qualities of the coffee. The fines continued interaction with the flavor acids increases bitterness over time, whereas I like my cup to increase in sweetness as the temperature drops as it does with a nice filtered brew.

The Cone shape just doesn't take advantage of brewing chemistry like a flat bottomed filter basket does. The only extractions that come out of cone shapes balanced were stirred, and I don't feel like the clarity exists then. I think ~ 20g dose in a cone allows good extractions un-stirred, but the pour must be very smooth.

Personally, I like the brew from a well adjusted Fetco with 13% prewet and 45sec prewet delay, 3:30 brew time, 60g/1L. For cup at a time, nothing I've had comes close to the Kalita, which is basically a micro/manual Fetco.
-Marshall Hance
Asheville, NC
Third Crack
I just think that the flavor profile is different with paper versus metal...advantages and disadvantages to both (Marshall pointed out some disadvantages and Ringo some advantages). Kind of a personal preference thing. I even find I like some beans and roast levels better with metal (or total immersion...french press method) and others with paper. So I have a whole load of different brewing equipment and pick based on mood, bean, amount of time, etc. I even use my Technivorm as a single cup total immersion method with swiss gold filter and really like those results. So I am getting a Kone to work with my Chemex pot....more choices, more experimenting, more comparisons!
Bob
Unta

Quote

endlesscycles wrote:

Quote

freshbeans wrote:
Marshall,
Are you more offended by the cone shape for extraction or the absence of the paper? -Scott


Probably the absence of paper more so. Letting fines form colloids with the flavor oils severely detracts from both flavor clarity and the unique body qualities of the coffee. The fines continued interaction with the flavor acids increases bitterness over time, whereas I like my cup to increase in sweetness as the temperature drops as it does with a nice filtered brew.

The Cone shape just doesn't take advantage of brewing chemistry like a flat bottomed filter basket does. The only extractions that come out of cone shapes balanced were stirred, and I don't feel like the clarity exists then. I think ~ 20g dose in a cone allows good extractions un-stirred, but the pour must be very smooth.

Personally, I like the brew from a well adjusted Fetco with 13% prewet and 45sec prewet delay, 3:30 brew time, 60g/1L. For cup at a time, nothing I've had comes close to the Kalita, which is basically a micro/manual Fetco.

How do you go about verifying a 13 percent prewet...Is it a weting of 13 percent of the total grounds or 13 percent saturation per individual ground of coffee? What temps are you running ?
Sean
Sean Harrington
educate.
seedlings
I wish my old-school Newco air-pot brewer could prewet. That would be awesome. Obviously you have a superior machine at your disposal Marshall!

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
endlesscycles

Quote

Unta wrote:
...
How do you go about verifying a 13 percent prewet...Is it a weting of 13 percent of the total grounds or 13 percent saturation per individual ground of coffee? What temps are you running ?
Sean


13% of the total water is the prewet amount. Idea being that's roughly 2x dry coffee weight or more specifically, the most water the coffee can absorb. Point being to start wetting and allow the acids to work on insolubles. Longer prewet delay yields a more bitter brew, shorter a more acidic. Prewet delay is a powerful control variable and more consistent than forced turbulence in a cone shape basket.

On Fetco's I set temp at 195F. At home with the Kalita, I boil water in the kettle on an induction top and start from there. As kettle temp drops, slurry temp rises.... never measured slurry temp.

I also have a large Bunn airpot brewer, a non plumb in version. There's actually the ability to prewet and pulse brew by pouring-in in stages.
-Marshall Hance
Asheville, NC
Third Crack
The video I saw demonstrating the Kone with a Chemex pot, recommended about a 25% prewet. You could see that this allowed the excess to run through. They then indicated a 45 second delay with the overall time of about 2:45 (seems a bit fast although their coffee/water was 70g/L). They recommended a relatively fine grind (finer than typical pour-over). Bob
Third Crack
I tried the stainless steel Coava Kone with my six cup Chemex and got such good results I started thinking was it the Kone or something else. I followed the manufacturers recommendation to use a relatively fine grind. Normally with the Chemex and paper filter I have tended to use a somewhat coarser grind but adjust the amount of coffee to get the right strength. One thing I have noticed is it is maybe more difficult to get a proper initial bloom during the delay period of 30-45 seconds. The coarser grind retains much less water. With the Coava Kone the coffee absorbed more initial water with the fine grind and (for whatever reasons) I got a better flavor profile. I suspect if I went back to the paper and adjusted the amount of coffee and used a finer grind I might also get a better result. I was also surprised at the minimal amount of fines that get through the Kone versus say the Swiss Gold filter. The Kone has unusual holes in that they are smaller on the inside than the outside, quite small and are made by chemical etching.
What do you pour-over experts out there think about the grind size as a variable?
Bob
Third Crack
Update on the Coava Kone. I am now using the Kone on a daily basis with my Chemex pot after some time optimizing the method. Very much like the results and not using paper everyday (I know some like using paper better). I preheat the Chemex pot and weigh 25 g of beans. I use two Pyrex measuring cups...a small and larger one. I microwave 14 oz of water in the larger until boiling. I then pour 90-100 ml (proper amount for bloom/delay) into the small cup which brings the temp down to the right brewing temp. I pour this in the center over about 15 sec. I then wait 45 sec. Then I pour from the larger cup (it has cooled some now) over about a 1 minute period ( I adjusted the grind until I hit this time...based on info from Coava). It then takes about 30 sec. to empty. So the total time is about 2-1/2 minutes. Great results. The Chemex shape is nice because as you pour into a mug the curve of the glass easily allows you to leave a very small amount of coffee behind with most of the grounds that get through the Kone (which is not very much). So you get a nice clear cup. I suppose there are several methods as good or better for one cup brewing but I like the technique and haven't found one I like better (yet). So, do you get balanced extraction from the cone shape? Well, I don't know other than my taste buds say yes in this case. It would be easier yet with a temp controlled kettle but the Pyrex measuring cups are simple, fast and accurate with the volumes (and I had them already!). Bob
Technivorm, Chemex, Coava Kone, Compak K-3 Touch, Gene Cafe
John Despres
Cool! Glad to hear about your success! I'd heard a couple bad reviews but no good ones yet. Thanks for the update. Dunno if I'll buy one as the coffee cupboard already stocks about 16 brewers with a few others on the counter or in the china cabinet.

Then there's all the mills and kettles... My wife loves the coffee. And me.

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
Third Crack
John...you're welcome to stop over and watch it in action and critique the Yemen coffee I have right now (mostly to critique my roasting...us rookies need some help now and then)! You could also watch my Gene technique. Bob
Technivorm, Chemex, Coava Kone, Compak K-3 Touch, Gene Cafe
John Despres
Bob, I'd be delighted and honored. I'm excited to see your rig, too. I think you're the only one I know to modify a Gene Cafe.

Besides, you had me at Yemen...
John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
John Despres
Update on Bob's Coava Kone.

I enjoyed a very nice morning last weekend with Bob at his home. (Turns out he lives about 4 blocks from me and I went to high school with his bride. Small world) The Mocha Harazi brewed with the Kone in his Chemex was delicious and everything a Yemen should be.

Thanks, Bob!

John
Edited by John Despres on 10/16/2011 10:37 AM
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
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