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make a programmer for the gene cafe
mikepetro

Quote

Are you sure it won't accept multiple PID values?


Well, I have good news and bad news. I got my controller in today and set it up on the bench to test. You can indeed plug in 4 sets of PID parameters, and the PID4 does work to auto select the closest one to your Setpoint. But there is a catch..... It only works in PID mode and does NOT appear to work in Ramp/Soak mode. In Ramp/Soak mode it "appears" to maintain the last used set of PID Parameters. Or at least the fields get greyed out and the numbers dont change as the ramp changes the setpoints. I guess it could be that it does change but just doesnt change the display, I am going to ask about this on the tech support forum.

Now you can easily plug in 4 sets of PID parameters and manually change your setpoints based on time and/or audio/visual cues (like 1C) and it will work beautifully by changing the tuning to match each setpoint change, but all setpoint changes would have to occur manually. This is probably going to my first mode of operation.

One other little quirk I ran up on is that I could have sworn I read that you can manually advance a ramp step, but I have yet to figure out to do it. Another question for tech support.........
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
mikepetro
Imagine something like this http://www.phasei...nsors.aspx where you just toss this miniature wireless RFID device in with the beans and log the data......

The top end of this particular device is only 180c, I found another one with a top end of 200C, I bet that someone makes a 300C version.

Stay tuned......
Edited by mikepetro on 02/29/2012 4:34 AM
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
kernelhmm

Quote

mikepetro wrote:
One other little quirk I ran up on is that I could have sworn I read that you can manually advance a ramp step, but I have yet to figure out to do it. Another question for tech support.........


Hi Mike,

Just found this fourm and people discussed the PID mod of gene 3D. I already done several preparing works.

1. Installed an adittion temperature sensor to share the same hole with the original one. (To leave the sufficient space, I have to remove the rubber shell of the original one )

2. breaked the heater circuit and bring two wires out for the additonal dimmer & SSR control.

Now I plan the following modifications:
1. a 2 way swith to choose between dimmer(hand) control and PID control
2. a bypass switch to short-cut the additonal circuit, by which to return the control back to the gene-3D original circuit.

Unfortunately, I bought a wrong PID, a panasonic KT-4 without the soak/ramp feature. So I have to manually write my own software for the profiling(try to dynamically change the PV settting by computer). Do you know if there is any open-souced data logger could be used to reduce the programming efforts? Thx
Edited by kernelhmm on 03/06/2012 2:07 AM
 
mikepetro
Hi again folks,

I havent forgotten about you all, just been trying to learn the GC and its default capabilities before I modified it too much. Not to mention learning how to roast in it. So far every roast has been better than the last, with no "bad" roasts yet, so I am VERY happy with the machine.

As for automating profiles, here is where I landed to date.

First, I decided that I wanted my Temp Controller to be a multipurpose device (echos of Alton Brown rattling through my brain). So I built a controller in a portable enclosure that can be used for:
-Automating GC profiles
-A Sous Vide controller
-A Smoker draft controller
-Profiling and calibrating my espresso machine with a SCACE
-The evening Prime Rib or just about any other Temp Control need.

This is what I came up with:
www.mikepetro.org/coffee/images/GC/DSC02705.JPG
You can plug any Type-K thermocouple into it, either standard or mini connectors. There is a standard electrical outlet on the front that you plug your heater, fan, whatever into. There is a data port to allow configuration and datalogging. All in a rugged portable box.

On the GC I decided to avoid permanent changes until I learned the machine better. The only permanent change was drilling a hole for the thermocouple right next to the existing probe. I routed the existing power wires out to an external switch (see gray box in controller photo above) where I can switch from PID mode to original GC mode at will. I relocated the fuse holder to inside of the GC to allow a hole for all the wires. All of this can easily be undone if I choose. The only downsides is if the fuse ever blows I have to take the cover off to get to it, AND, there is no air interlock for PID mode. In other words if the switch is set on PID and the fan of the GC is not on I could have a melt down. I will be careful to avoid this and I can easily make the interlock once I decide to permanently modify the GC.

www.mikepetro.org/coffee/images/GC/DSC02708.JPG


Here is the finished setup ready for me to begin serious testing:
www.mikepetro.org/coffee/images/GC/DSC02700.JPG
(Note, I live alone so I didn't get any grief for commandeering the Dining Room table)

With this I can:
-Control either via GC or the PID
-Datalog all temps throughout the roast
-Make config changes through the laptop
-Program pre-defined Profiles


One thing I have discovered after datalogging just one roast is that my added thermocouple responds MUCH faster than the GC temp probe. With the GC controlling there was some oscillation around the setpoint which is probably due to the slow response of their probe, or maybe measured value smoothing in their software.

I haven't attempted control via PID yet but I am sure I will be able to achieve more accurate results, plus have the advantage of Profile Programming.

Stay tuned.......
Edited by mikepetro on 03/11/2012 7:14 PM
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
mikepetro
Oh my GOSH.... The results were even more dramatic than I anticipated. It appears the GC has a full 10 degree deviation above and below the setpoint. Thats a full 20 degree swing! Once I switched to PID it was LESS than a half degree deviation, less than a half degree total degree swing even!

Proof is in the data. I set the GC up to run empty at 400 degrees. First I logged 5 minutes of GC control, then I switched to PID control for 5 minutes. The red line is the switch.
www.mikepetro.org/coffee/images/GC/control.jpg
Typical process control response, the deviation error of each cycle is half the amplitude of the previous cycle until it reaches setpoint, it should stabilize within 3 cycles if the PID tuning is right.

Next step is to run it under full load. Might have to tune the PID a bit, but I except similar results. Wish I had some dirt cheap trash beans for this phase of testing, then I could do some sacrificial roasts and really push the limits of what this machine can do and what can be done with profiles. The machines maximum Rate Of Rise (ROR) is a value that is of particular interest to me.

More to come.....
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
kernelhmm
After a weekend programming. I eventually make this PID controller works. Here is a screen capture of a test. I didn't load beans and just test the basic PID functions.

i41.tinypic.com/vwuyv9.jpg

The first part gene is controlled by the default settings. And then I switched to PID profile. Seems it works very well :-)
 
mikepetro
What software are you using, it looks interesting.

Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
bvwelch
Looks like some really neat projects going on here -- I would suggest you try to use real greens, of the expected amount/mass/payload -- it will make a big difference on PID, heat, fan, etc.
 
mikepetro
Ran it under full load tonight via PID. very simple automated profile, no ramps but all setpoint changes were automated by the controller, just wanted to see what the machines fully loaded (227g) ROR was. Control was great, +/- 1 degree or better. Roast of Costa Rican looked good, will see what my cup says in 3 days.......
www.mikepetro.org/coffee/images/GC/profile-2.JPG
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
kernelhmm

Quote

mikepetro wrote:
What software are you using, it looks interesting.


I didn't find any appropriate temperature log software. So I wrote one by myself.
 
kernelhmm
i42.tinypic.com/2czohnc.jpg

This time a real roast testing with 150g beans. I slightly modified the programm to add a PID output power curve,
which is showed in yellow line. I think 150C for 6 minitues dry cycle may not be enough. And after 20minites roast I just got a city+ result.

Maybe you already notice there are a few jumps of PId output. Those jumps happened when i try to mannually offset the PID set value, e.g. +5C or -5C. So just neglect them.
Edited by kernelhmm on 03/13/2012 9:39 AM
 
bvwelch

Quote

kernelhmm wrote:
[I didn't find any appropriate temperature log software. So I wrote one by myself.


Is there any chance this program could work with our TC4 ? We need more choices on the PC/host side of things. thanks! -bill
 
kernelhmm

Quote

bvwelch wrote:

Quote

kernelhmm wrote:
[I didn't find any appropriate temperature log software. So I wrote one by myself.


Is there any chance this program could work with our TC4 ? We need more choices on the PC/host side of things. thanks! -bill


Does TC4 use serial port to exchange data with PC? If so, I think it could be. The program itself is very simple, and isn't well polished. I am afraid it could only run on my PC :-( (need serveral external java lib and dll). But if someone consider it is useful, I can contribute my source.
 
JimG

Quote

kernelhmm wrote:
Does TC4 use serial port to exchange data with PC? If so, I think it could be. The program itself is very simple, and isn't well polished. I am afraid it could only run on my PC :-( (need serveral external java lib and dll). But if someone consider it is useful, I can contribute my source.


Yes, it has a serial interface that has been configured to work with a few different host programs. There is an open source repository for the project's code here:
http://code.googl...c4-shield/

If you would be willing to have your source posted there, and I hope you are, please send me a PM and I will get it done.

Jim
 
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