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What not to do?
mk1
I've been drilling and drilling to make my Dan inspired direct flame roaster.
img191.imageshack.us/img191/9918/20111213185956.jpg
I've been having success with reading temps with Jim G's TC4C.
I've tested a stainless steel pipe burner that I plan to install in the center of the drum. I'm not sure if it's providing adequate BTU s but I'll try enlarging the holes and hope the flame stays attached.
One of my design considerations is full TC4 control, maybe even PID, and this has got me to wondering if a flame is required to achieve the direct flame effect. If a blast of hot enough air was directed in a similar manner?
My latest brewery controller:
img521.imageshack.us/img521/5831/20111213185939.jpg


Mark
Edited by mk1 on 12/13/2011 8:30 PM
seedlings
My first thought is that heat is heat. My second thought is that forced electric heat would be easier to PID.

My third thought is... how many drill bits have you gone through???

:)
CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
coffeeroastersclub

Quote

mk1 wrote:
I've been drilling and drilling to make my Dan inspired direct flame roaster.
img191.imageshack.us/img191/9918/20111213185956.jpg
I've been having success with reading temps with Jim G's TC4C.
I've tested a stainless steel pipe burner that I plan to install in the center of the drum. I'm not sure if it's providing adequate BTU s but I'll try enlarging the holes and hope the flame stays attached.
One of my design considerations is full TC4 control, maybe even PID, and this has got me to wondering if a flame is required to achieve the direct flame effect. If a blast of hot enough air was directed in a similar manner?
My latest brewery controller:
img521.imageshack.us/img521/5831/20111213185939.jpg


Mark


I am sure that Dan could speak to this best, but my first thought was why did you drill the holes in the bowls? My understanding is that Dan did not drill out any holes. In fact the holes may negatively affect the way the whole concept works.

Maybe Dan can provide some input?

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
Dan
Ah, NEMA enclosure with 24mm controls! Where's your emergency stop button! :) I have lost tract of how many machine controllers I've made that look like that one. Here's my latest, an automated parts washer. Note the 360 stackable warning/indicators on top.

claycritters.com/washer/pw5.jpg

ginny
Dan,

SWEET

-g

Merry christmas Dan

:BigHug:
mk1
Before I reply let me state my answers may not be correct. I am a sufferer of PT excessive hole drilling syndrome.
Chad, I've used one bit so far. It's a 135 degree $4-5 bit from McMaster Carr. At first I was using my automatic center punch but then I discovered how handy the 135 angle tip is. It's much easier to start without walking. and also the bit heats up pretty quick and cuts better. I think you're right about heat being heat and the PID.
Len, I blame you for all the drilling, actually I was being cheap not wanting to buy one of your fantastic drums ( which I priced raw materials and know yours are well worth the cost) but I also didn't want the door on the end. Concerning the holes, Dan has big holes in the exhaust end of his prototype roaster. I believe this allows heat exchange and makes it explosion proof. I'm thinking I need the holes for oxygen supply to the pipe burner, sadly not necessary if I was to use a hot air ribbon heater.
Dan, this controller is for me, no safeties, interlock cut-offs, just totally unfettered brewing, (maybe a small electrical fire or two for fun).

Roast Strong!

Mark
JackH

Quote

Dan wrote:
Ah, NEMA enclosure with 24mm controls! Where's your emergency stop button! :) I have lost tract of how many machine controllers I've made that look like that one. Here's my latest, an automated parts washer. Note the 360 stackable warning/indicators on top.

claycritters.com/washer/pw5.jpg



Dan, that panel looks like some of the equipment I work on. The stack status lamps especially. 480V 3 phase 300A I have to wear a suit and face shield for arc flash when I have to open.
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
coffeeroastersclub

Quote

mk1 wrote:
Before I reply let me state my answers may not be correct. I am a sufferer of PT excessive hole drilling syndrome.
Chad, I've used one bit so far. It's a 135 degree $4-5 bit from McMaster Carr. At first I was using my automatic center punch but then I discovered how handy the 135 angle tip is. It's much easier to start without walking. and also the bit heats up pretty quick and cuts better. I think you're right about heat being heat and the PID.
Len, I blame you for all the drilling, actually I was being cheap not wanting to buy one of your fantastic drums ( which I priced raw materials and know yours are well worth the cost) but I also didn't want the door on the end. Concerning the holes, Dan has big holes in the exhaust end of his prototype roaster. I believe this allows heat exchange and makes it explosion proof. I'm thinking I need the holes for oxygen supply to the pipe burner, sadly not necessary if I was to use a hot air ribbon heater.
Dan, this controller is for me, no safeties, interlock cut-offs, just totally unfettered brewing, (maybe a small electrical fire or two for fun).

Roast Strong!

Mark


Mark, maybe it will work with all the small drilled holes, but I just think that if you are looking to replicate Dan's roasting process that you may find too much heat escaping from the apparatus. I think his design retained the heat very well due to the mostly enclosed design.

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
Dan
Thanks everyone. It is nice to have an unlimited budget to build equipment at work. I buy the best equipment I can find because cheap parts just mean more downtime.

Jack, I bring in an electrician when I need to open up a live power panel. For equipment I just lock out the breaker.
mk1
Len,
There is a drum build on coffee snob au where he has a perforated drum with a pipe burner underneath it and a sheet metal enclosure. The whole thing is suspended so the large holes in the bottom provide ventilation of sorts. So I'll see if I need an enclosure at a run or two. The build is interesting and the drum is fully articulated perpendicular to the axis (horizontal) of rotation. A little complex.

Mark
Dan
Mark, Looking at the insert panel above I don't see an DIN rails. If you don't use them I suggest you do. Then make mounting components very easy.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Din_rail.jpg

I've started using these space saving relays, too from AutomationDirect.
www.automationdirect.com/images/products/medium/m_7811cskt.jpg www.automationdirect.com/images/products/medium/m_7811c24d.jpg

A row of these terminal blocks makes wiring easy.
www.automationdirect.com/images/products/medium/m_dnt12w.jpg
Edited by Dan on 12/15/2011 8:35 AM
mk1
Dan,
I bought a bunch of the relays for my individual temp controllers for maintaining and ramping fermentation temps on 10 gallon batches of beer. They're cheaper homemade than a Love or Ranco. I love the automation direct stuff but I've never made the jump to the din rails. I'm a little slow. The termination blocks I haven't seen before, wow. I can't wait try the blocks.
On the roaster progress, I have my holes almost all drilled and am working on the TC4C control box. I can't think of any really good way to mount the little momentary switches. I have them soldered in pairs to two small breakout boards and figure I might silicone them to the back of a piece of .020 2024 AL along with mechanically attaching the 20 X 4 LCD display. That's all I got.

Roast Strong,

Mark
Edited by mk1 on 12/15/2011 4:09 PM
mk1
I've devoted my spare time this weekend to:
1. Soldering up another TC4, LCDapter, to work with an old Duemilanove I have laying around. I hope to integrate this one in the face of my HGBM. I can't say how great these Data-loggers are, very sincere thanks to the responsible individuals and this forum.
2. The Dan inspired direct flame roaster.
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/20120108164042.jpg/]img502.imageshack.us/img502/5209/20120108164042.jpg[/URL
I have a few issues yet which is why I'm posting the picture. The wood is temporary. The green plastic bearing blocks might be as well. The pvc is just for alignment purposes, it's gone after the bowls are silver soldered to the stainless pipe shafts. The drilled out stainless drain hubs (thanks to all fluid bedders) are riveted to the bowls for added strength and alignment ease. I'm still scratching my head about the bowls sliding apart for load/dump. I plan on a bean cooler directly below, no hole in the alucobond base yet. The pipe burner will go in the left side, probes to the right. There also might be an enclosure like a grill lid for heat retention.
Any suggestions would be welcome.

Roast Strong!
Mark
Dan
You've made a lot o progress! Nice looking unit. I think you'll be very successful with this design. I doubt if you'll need an enclosure. You'll have plenty of heat and need to purge it and moisture. There's something about making roasters easy breathing.

I bought two round aluminum cake pans for my cooling tray to put bottom to bottom. They come in all sizes up to 20" in various depths. I'll but the bottoms out and drop in perf metal for a cooling tray. I'll post photos when I get back on my machine.

ALUCOBOND! That's a rare material. I've been using it since it came on the market. I have a full sheet of 6mm in the shop.

DIN rail itself is dirt cheap. And so many components come with both DIN and screw mounts. Two big advantages of going DIN rail is you can move things around easily, and cram more components into the same space. Here's the interior of that control panel I posted above. Note the three DIN rails. The top is 208V relays and motor starter, the middle is 120V relays, the bottom is filtered power supply and a DL06 PLC on the right. I took this picture just before I wiring the PLC input and outputs, hence the 18ga spaghetti on the bottom. The black thing on the left side is a pressure switch, it tells the PLC that the blower is running and that it is safe to turn the heater on. It was the only component that wasn't DIN rail mounted.

claycritters.com/washer/pw4.jpg
Edited by Dan on 01/08/2012 6:37 PM
mk1
Thanks for the reply and advice Dan. Very nice looking panel and you sold me on the DIN rail. I'm no professional in this department and that picture is a great tutorial for my amateur efforts. Is the filtered power supply for the PLC? If so why? I hate to think what might happen if I was let loose in your shop.
I get alucobond panels (16' X 5') for next to nothing. There are a few local fab shops that fill up with spares and leftover odd lots. They auction them off and they go for a little over scrap value.
I'm glad to hear what you say about enclosures. In a week or so I might get to testing my burner ideas. AllenB's new info and pictures on the Whitmee is very interesting as the English gent discusses the burner somewhat at length. More clues...

Roast Strong!
Mark
Edited by mk1 on 01/08/2012 10:40 PM
Dan
Yes, the filter is to protect the PLC from EM noise, a common problem in factories. I buy them from AutomationDirect at the same time I get a PLC. PLCs are amazingly robust. I have yet to have one fail or need rebooting. Some have been in daily service for 10 years.

I found the Whitmee discussion useful, too.
mk1
Had some time to work on the DIDF this weekend, so here's a few shots. This first one shows the drum open in loading position.

img824.imageshack.us/img824/2214/20120119172436.jpg

This one shows the sled operated by a $4 clamp cut down.

img864.imageshack.us/img864/8509/20120119172522.jpg

The 50 RPM gear motor, mount and chain drive. The motor seems to have plenty of umph.

img39.imageshack.us/img39/6025/20120119172547.jpg

The bad part is the next step. Making and testing the vane "system". I'll make the test models from .019 aluminum, temp fastened, and later the final stainless. The problem is that I guess the Whitmee uses a certain charge of beans, at a particular RPM and everything is designed as a compromise between bean densities at multiple stages in the roast. Oh no.

Roast Strong!

Mark
Edited by mk1 on 01/19/2012 5:11 PM
allenb
Looking good Mark! It looks like you got the remaining zillion holes accomplished.

What's the rpm with your current setup? Looks like a 1 to 1 sprocket ratio so 50 rpm? With enough vanes it might achieve the bean carryover distance you need at 50.

I don't think the Whitmee's rpms was much more than that from some of the info I've seen lately but the larger diameter drums obviously had a higher rim velocity than yours (at the same rpm). I'm assuming you can easily swap driver sprockets to adjust bean carryover point?

Allen
Edited by allenb on 01/19/2012 8:12 PM
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
Unta
Beautiful work mark.
Sean
Sean Harrington
educate.
JETROASTER
I'm a sucker for shiny! Really nice.
How much machine oil got used??? -Scott
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