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TC4 with RoastLogger
smico
I am beta testing Jim's controller on my Hottop B2, and I am like in roasting heaven. All HT security featueres are kept, while full controll is obtained during the roast.


Setup in Roast Logger exactly follows my thoughts when roasting:
1. During roast I change power and fan at certain temperatures to follow desired curve, until first crack.
2. After first crack start I normally roast 3 minutes, so events are triggered by time


Temperature triggered setup :

@actionT1Table
100|90|20 (temperature 100C set Heat to 90 and Fan to 20)
150|20|100 (temperature 150C set Heat to 20 and Fan to 100)
152|50|50 (temperature 152C set Heat to 50 and Fan to 50)
165|90|20 (temperature 165C set Heat to 90 and Fan to 20)
180|30|50 (temperature 180C set Heat to 30 and Fan to 50)
null|null|null
null|null|null
null|null|null
null|null|null
null|null|null


Once temp reaches 196, and I hear first crack, events will be triggered after predefined time:
@actionSecsFCTable
10|20|100 (after 10 seconds set Heat to 20 and Fan to 100)
12|20|20 (after 12 seconds set Heat to 20 and Fan to 20)
14|20|100 (after 14 seconds set Heat to 20 and Fan to 100)
18|20|40 (after 18 seconds set Heat to 20 and Fan to 40)
40|50|40 (after 40 seconds set Heat to 50 and Fan to 40)
90|60|40 (after 40 seconds set Heat to 60 and Fan to 40)
180|60|40 (after 180 seconds set Heat to 70 and Fan to 40)
null|null|null
null|null|null
null|null|null


I am looking forward to roast back to back. I still have to wait HT to cool down to 165.

Cheers,

Miroslav
Hottop B2 + HTC, Cremina 83, OE Pharos, Brewtus IIIR, Baratza Vario
 
smico

Quote

smico wrote:
I am looking forward to roast back to back. I still have to wait HT to cool down to 165.

In the mean time, I thought of way to do back-to-back roasts with Hottop.

To start the new roast we need to wait until internal HT thermometer (RTD) cools down to 165F. I will add (COOL) button to adjust resistance of RTD down, and make Hottop feel like January in Montreal.

Back to back roast process:
1. Heat empty Hottop to 400F
2. Press eject
3. Power OFF
4. Power ON, set FAN to 100%
5. Wait until Hottop cools down to drop in temperature
6. Press the COOL button, which brings HT in preheat, and immediately after in roasting mode (I hope this will work fine)
7. Roast
8. Press eject when done, cool beans in separate cooler.
9. Remove chaff, do after roast maintenance
10. Power OFF

11. Power ON, set FAN to 100%
12. Wait until Hottop cools down to drop in temperature
13. Press the COOL button, which brings HT in preheat, and immediately after in roasting mode (I hope this will work fine)
14. Roast ?.

ETC?.

Now, this all looks nice from the distance. I will test it tonight and report...

Cheers,

Miroslav
Hottop B2 + HTC, Cremina 83, OE Pharos, Brewtus IIIR, Baratza Vario
 
smico
I tested procedure above and it works like a charm...
Now, would I recommend it to someone, this is another question.
There is a lots of plastic on Hottop, and they cool it down for a reason.
Cheers,
Miroslav
Edited by smico on 08/29/2012 5:21 AM
Hottop B2 + HTC, Cremina 83, OE Pharos, Brewtus IIIR, Baratza Vario
 
Bhante

Quote

JimG wrote (in the ReadMe):
RoastLoggerTC4 version 2.0 10 July 2012 by Jim Gallt and Tom Coxon
- general release of software with standalone capability (see below)
- default fan PWM frequency set to 61Hz for best performance with HTC interface

I have just been testing the latest version of RoastLogger (last time I tried it was sometime last year, and at that time it did not work with my interface, but now it works OK). The fan at 61 Hz is horrendously noisy though! I have 50Hz here which might make a difference, but I have found the frequency wants to be much higher.

First I tried phase correct mode at 3.9kHz, which is what I use with aCatuai

(see here: http://homeroaste...post_31019 )

- a huge improvement on 61Hz, but astonishingly it is not as quiet on the RoastLogger as what I get with aCatuai. Then I tried tried changing it to fast pwm mode at 7.8kHz (which on aCatuai was not as good as phase correct) - with that I can get good results, only marginally noisier than 3.9kHz phase correct on aCatuai.

The frequency is twice as fast with fast pwm mode, so the prescale value for both cases are the same. The relevant code for those who want to try this is either:

Quote

#define PWM_MODE IO3_FASTPWM // Fast PWM mode
#define PWM_PRESCALE IO3_PRESCALE_8 // 7.8 kHz PWM on FASTPWM

or:

Quote

#define PWM_MODE IO3_PCORPWM // Phase Correct PWM mode
#define PWM_PRESCALE IO3_PRESCALE_8 // 3.9 kHz on PCORPWM

The code goes in user.h

I'm trying a roast shortly ...

Bhante
 
smico
I use 7.8kHz on Hottop B2 and it I's a bit noisier only at 10% speed. At higher speed it's the same as OEM.

#define PWM_PRESCALE IO3_PRESCALE_8 // 7,808 Hz - seems very good and close to OEM fan control
Hottop B2 + HTC, Cremina 83, OE Pharos, Brewtus IIIR, Baratza Vario
 
Bhante
I was trying to import a log file from pBourbon as a template for Roastlogger, but had no success getting around the format differences. RoastLogger stores the time as mm:ss, but excel seems to think it is hh:mm; wheras pBourbon stores the time as decimal seconds - should be easier to manipulate in theory, but when I try to change the format in excel 2003 all I get is garbage! All the values are 00:00 (or 00:00.0 if I select mm:ss.s) except values with a rounding error which show as 01:26 - irrespective of the actual values!
 
smico
If you need help with Excel macro to do conversion I can help out, just send me the souce file. I do that sort of thing every day at work.
Miroslav
Hottop B2 + HTC, Cremina 83, OE Pharos, Brewtus IIIR, Baratza Vario
 
JimG
In theory, fan PWM frequencies above around 2kHz begin to loose some accuracy when the new interface board is installed. This is the result of two things:

1) the microprocessor on the interface board is running at only 8MHz and the main loop time is a bit too long to grab multiple samples for high PWM frequencies.

2) the opto's have a finite rise time that places an upper limit on the frequencies available.

High frequencies (i.e. 8kHz) still work, but you don't get 25% power when you ask for 25% power, for example. Instead, you might get 60% duty cycle being delivered to the fan.

The noise from the fan at lower duty cycles is barely perceptible on my roaster at 61Hz, but clearly this varies from roaster to roaster. The interface board includes a small capacitor on the fan output signal that lessens the noise, BTW.

Jim
 
smico
Thanks for the clarification Jim. It was quite noisy on my machine, but will try it again.
Hottop B2 + HTC, Cremina 83, OE Pharos, Brewtus IIIR, Baratza Vario
 
Bhante

Quote

JimG wrote:

In theory, fan PWM frequencies above around 2kHz begin to loose some accuracy when the new interface board is installed.

Ah, I was wondering why you selected such a slow PWM frequency. That is a major advantage of with my simple interface, because it is just a resistor and an opto. In fact, I can run it at 50 kHz without the slightest problems, and the duty rate is still unchanged (noise level is not optimal though at high frequencies). Your capacitor would presumably have an effect on the response at higher frequencies though. I don't need the capacitor because I just use the digital signals on the hottop.

At 61 Hz the grating noise on my hottop is really unbearable, but at 3.9/7.8 kHz it is virtually the same as in the OEM state.

Bhante
 
smico

Quote

Bhante wrote:

I was trying to import a log file from pBourbon as a template for Roastlogger, but had no success getting around the format differences. RoastLogger stores the time as mm:ss, but excel seems to think it is hh:mm; wheras pBourbon stores the time as decimal seconds - should be easier to manipulate in theory, but when I try to change the format in excel 2003 all I get is garbage! All the values are 00:00 (or 00:00.0 if I select mm:ss.s) except values with a rounding error which show as 01:26 - irrespective of the actual values!

I wrote Excel macro to convert pBourbon log file into Roast Logger log and action file for Bhante. Code is attached here.
You simply add the class in Excel, and run it on PBourbon log, and you will get tab in Roast Logger format, with actions saved at the end of log.
Save the tab in CSV format, load it as template in RoastLogger. Load action table from template in Arduino window...

If you have any questions, or need it to run on many files, please let me know.

Cheers,
Miroslav
smico attached the following file:
pbourbon2roastlogger.zip [2.64kB / 459 Downloads]

Edited by smico on 09/01/2012 3:50 PM
Hottop B2 + HTC, Cremina 83, OE Pharos, Brewtus IIIR, Baratza Vario
 
az erik

Quote

JimG wrote:

Hi, Allen -

Yes you can manually control the heater (and fan if desired) output and display (numeric values) RoR at the same time.

However, RoR is not displayed graphically. But the numeric values of both BT-RoR and ET-RoR are displayed on the RoastLogger screens.

In addition, when using the RoastLoggerTC4 firmware on a TC4 system that includes an LCDapterC you can perform heater control from the 4-button interface and view BT-RoR even if not connected to a computer running RoastLogger.

Jim


Is there a way to pipe the ROR out to the log? and possibly graph after the fact? Is it a graph limitation of RL or wasn't really a requested feature?

I'd love to have a ROR graph to fall back on (my guess would be it would be a pretty good indicator of roaster maint req)
 
JimG

Quote

az erik wrote:

Is there a way to pipe the ROR out to the log? and possibly graph after the fact? Is it a graph limitation of RL or wasn't really a requested feature?

I'd love to have a ROR graph to fall back on (my guess would be it would be a pretty good indicator of roaster maint req)


Tom and I discussed this a little while back. IIRC, Tom said plotting RoR wasn't a high priority among RoastLogger users. The numerical display in the lower right and lower left corners, however, does provide running values for RoR.

Jim
 
JimG
A quick note to announce that minor improvements have been made to the HTC + TC4C combination. (I have held off on making these same improvements to the HTShield, however, because the demand for the shield version of the HTRI device has been very low).

Changes to the HTC (compared to the original as shown in Randy's user guide):

1. All resistors and capacitors are now surface mount.

2. LED2 (heater indicator) now uses a 2-pin polarized JST connector.

3. The short 4-wire cable connecting the TC4C and the HTC has been eliminated. All electrical contacts are now made through mating male/female headers when the boards are stacked. This is a much cleaner and more reliable configuration.

For those who would prefer to mount the HTRI system outside their Hottop, I now have the materials needed to build custom length Hottop cables to replace the short-ish OEM 8-wire cables. So if the only thing holding you back is not wanting to mount the new electronics inside the roaster, these longer cables would do the trick.

Jim
 
Barrie
Jim,
I am switching from GC to Hottop (to better hear the cracks), and have been looking for a single-source 101 doc that might explain the basics of logging/controlling. If you know of such a thing, could you please point me to it? That said, I have waded through the record of your adventures to date and it is great stuff! One or two questions.
1. Is the combined logger/controller package still available? From where?
2. Does it come with the appropriate DIY instructions?
3. Does it all fit inside a Hottop?
4. Can any idiot such as me install it? You may not want to answer that one, or any of the others for that matter. Grin
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
JimG

Quote

Barrie wrote:
I am switching from GC to Hottop (to better hear the cracks), and have been looking for a single-source 101 doc that might explain the basics of logging/controlling. If you know of such a thing, could you please point me to it?


Unfortunately, probably nothing that is truly single source. I would point you first to Randy G's user guide for the HTRI system (the HTC is a member of the HTRI family):
http://www.mlgp-l...e-v100.pdf


There is also some info on the hardware side here:
http://www.mlgp-l...index.html

Tom Coxon's (a.k.a. greenbean) RoastLogger software, which works very well with the HTRI system, is well-described here:
http://homepage.n...logger.htm


Quote

Barrie wrote:
That said, I have waded through the record of your adventures to date and it is great stuff! One or two questions.
1. Is the combined logger/controller package still available? From where?
2. Does it come with the appropriate DIY instructions?
3. Does it all fit inside a Hottop?
4. Can any idiot such as me install it? You may not want to answer that one, or any of the others for that matter. Grin


1. Yes, the combined TC4C + HTC is available:
http://www.mlgp-l...index.html

2. In the package is only the hardware. Instructions are in the form of Randy's user guide PDF for the HTRI (see link above), plus a similar guide Randy wrote for the RoastLogger program:
http://homepage.n...Manual.pdf

3. Yes, it can all fit inside the Hottop. It can also be mounted externally, or a little bit internal and a little bit external. Generally, I think most people take the "all internal" approach.

4. I'm going to take the 5th on this one ;-) But I think reading through the PDF's I linked will help you decide.

Jim
 
ginny

Quote

4. Can any idiot such as me install it? You may not want to answer that one, or any of the others for that matter.


I think you have a ton-o-information here Barrie. Try it out and see...

ginny
 
MaKoMo
Barrie,

I just implanted a TC4C/HTRI into my Hottop P and I am still amazed about that whole package. It was really easy, including the scary drilling. Jim and the others did an excellent job to make this as simple as possible. I actually wanted to contribute my part to this "project" by adding a better support for the HTRI to Artisan. Therefore, I asked Jim to send me the hardware over to be able to test my code. Again a big thank to Jim for all of his support here.

Because I was slow in finding the time to implanting the Hardware into my Hottop, the software part was ready already way before (thanks for testing Brad!). The latest beta versions of Artisan v0.6 now feature sliders that can be configured to control the fan and heater of an HTRI enhanced Hottop, a feature that RoastLogger has already for a while (here Artisan is the copy-cat). In Artisan some configuration work is needed, while RoastLogger works out-of the box with the HTRI. This is the consequence of the flexible "Artisan" approach of Artisan and won't improve. However, I documented those configuration steps in a post on the Artisan blog http://artisan-ro...ottop.html.

The Hardware mod was quite easy. I followed GreenBeans suggestion to use the Omega XCIB-K-3-5-3 thermocouples and am very happy with this decision. See his post on TMC at http://www.toomuc...;start=225. Find attached a pic of the result. I did not take pics from the internals as they are mostly the same as those on the TMC post above.

Again copying the RoastLogger approach to automate roasts I extended the alarm feature of Artisan considerable allowing to send control commands automatically based on events, time and temperatures to the Hottop. This is described in another Artisan blog post http://artisan-ro...larms.html.

My next steps will be to take a look at Brads modified aArtisanQ_PID HTRI firmware and see how best to achieve full automation using Artisan and the HTRI setup. That might lead to some further development of Artisan...

PS: The whole TC4C/HTRI project would deserve a post on the Arduino blog!
MaKoMo attached the following image:
htri.jpg
 
Barrie
This is just great! Thank you all SO much, especially you, Jim, for taking the time to lay out the road map for reading. I understand your taking the 5th on the last question; it was posed somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Roflmao
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Barrie
I have a new HT on the way and, having read Randy Glass's Users' Guide, I think I can do this, and can hardly wait! On the other hand, prudence says "Wait until the warranty runs out." Good grief. What to do! What to do! Not a question, really. Just the sounds of inner battle. BBQ grill
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
leo-bsb
Hi all, this is my first post after reading a lot.
At the current stage of development, can Roastlogger together with TC4C monitor and control using SSR the heat from temperature readings using thermocouples on my modded oven?
I am modding a brazilian made electric oven, adding a Behmor drum and extra heating source. I was planning to use a regular PID but the idea of replicate a roasting curve is very tempting.
 
allenb
Leo,

Sorry for the lack of reply. Somehow this post got lost.

Yes, Roastlogger with TC4C along with a PC or laptop can control your roast via SSR to heating element and by using the "event buttons" it can steer the roast through a profile by applying different power levels at selected bean or environment temperatures throughout the roast. This is a very effective means of reproducing a profile.

FYI, the TC4C is not currently in production and JimG won't be taking orders for any of the TC4 products for the near future but one of our members is selling the raw components for the TC4 shield on Ebay. Just google TC4 and Ebay and you should be able to find him.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb
I?m trying to get used to pushing the up/down buttons for changing % power level on my TC4C Lcdapter with Roastlogger but I?m more of a ?turn the dial? guy which to me is much quicker and easier. I?m using the Roastlogger/TC4C in standalone mode.

How difficult would it be to utilize a quadrature rotary encoder in place of the two up/down buttons?

http://docs-europ...7a2224.pdf

Might there be an existing arduino sketch that could be copied/pasted into the Roastlogger sketch and just ?comment out? the code dealing with the up/down buttons?

One more irritating thing I?m finding in Roastlogger is having to hit the far left button first to allow selecting yes/no for resetting the timer. There should be a way to just hit a single button for resetting the timer to zero. Any ideas on changes to allow this to happen if I add an additional push button off to the side?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
rustic_roaster
Acataui allows regular pots to be used control the fan and heat outputs. With a little work that idea could be ported to RoastLogger.

I am guessing the two step process for resetting the timer is to prevent a person from accidentally resetting the timer. As it is a program it is possible to make it work with a single action or adding another dedicated switch. If you used pots for control and dont use the other buttons then not having a two step process to reset the time is probable less accident prone.
Edited by JackH on 06/11/2016 2:03 PM
 
rustic_roaster

Quote

allenb wrote:

One more irritating thing I?m finding in Roastlogger is having to hit the far left button first to allow selecting yes/no for resetting the timer. There should be a way to just hit a single button for resetting the timer to zero. Any ideas on changes to allow this to happen if I add an additional push button off to the side?

Allen

Might be cleaner ways to do this, but this is an easy way to get one button timer reset.

find the void HIDbase:: doButtons() function in the basicHID.cpp file.

make the confirm_reset_state case code look like this


      case confirm_reset_state :
//      if( keyPressed( BTN_UP ) && keyChanged( BTN_UP ) ) { // Y)es key
        dTime = true;
        ledFlash( LED_3 );
        HIDstate = running_state;
        statusLCD = ALL_FIELDS;
/*      }
      else if( keyPressed( BTN_DOWN ) && keyChanged( BTN_DOWN ) ) { // N)o key
        ledFlash( LED_3 );
        HIDstate = running_state;
        statusLCD = ALL_FIELDS;
      }
      */
      break;
 
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