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allenb

Quote

Unta wrote:

Allen,
I take a video of mine in action. I have one full revolution that i operate in. This is not a torch, its a bbq grill. Doesnt that dramatically effect the end result?
My burner wants 6PSIG i give it anywhere from 3-6 during the roast. That gives me control to which i can stop the progression of the roast or get it so that it climbs x/min. It works :).
Sean


In looking over standard BBQ grill regulators I've not found any that operate at high pressure but all of them have operated at 11" water column which is way below the 3 to 6 lbs you're operating at.

Is your grill unmodified?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Unta

Quote

allenb wrote:

Quote

Unta wrote:

Allen,
I take a video of mine in action. I have one full revolution that i operate in. This is not a torch, its a bbq grill. Doesnt that dramatically effect the end result?
My burner wants 6PSIG i give it anywhere from 3-6 during the roast. That gives me control to which i can stop the progression of the roast or get it so that it climbs x/min. It works :).
Sean


In looking over standard BBQ grill regulators I've not found any that operate at high pressure but all of them have operated at 11" water column which is way below the 3 to 6 lbs you're operating at.

Is your grill unmodified?

Allen

Please see previous correction. Not appropriate for this application....
Not a grill.
Sean
Sean Harrington
educate.
 
Unta

Quote

freshbeans wrote:


I'm not an advocate of using regulators as valves.
-Scott


I'm curious.
Sean
Sean Harrington
educate.
 
JETROASTER
Hi Sean,
Consider some other tools like, a grill, stove, or a torch. In each case, fuel pressure is regulated closer to the source, then volume is controlled by a seperate valve...nearer the device.
In this way, fuel is delivered at constant pressure....making adjustments more predictable. Control is alot finer. I imagine controlling with a regulater presents larger swings.
In a higher pressure combustion enviroment, this would be even more dramatic.

A more practical reason is this; A number of years ago, I fed directly from the tank, and controlled everything at the roaster.
The rubber hose got extremely cold...to the point of frosting over!!! That can't be safe.
With the regulator at the source, the tanks still get cold...but thats where it ends. The hose and control valve stay at a safe temp.
-Scott
 
allenb
Sean, I see the correction. Makes sense to me now.

Scott, I'm thinking of the type of regulators that are commonly used as off/on and for control like you see on propane torch heads and table top grills. This type of reg has a positive shutoff when turned full clockwise just as positive as a valve stop. These provide a fairly fine control that's linear and keeps things constant.

Standard regulators don't provide a positive shutoff which is probably the ones you're referring to?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb
Scott,

I need to retract my statement saying the on/off plus control is just as positive as a valve stop. I thought this was the case but now I'm not certain and you're correct that even these do have a delay while the regulator drops pressure to zero. In either case with needle valve control or regulator control you'd obviously need to kill the tank when not in use.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
JETROASTER
Those little 1 lb things are no problem.Handy size, and pretty harmless. The ones that hook right up to the little tank, right?
My concern is with any unregulated line leaving the fuel source.
-Scott
 
allenb

Quote

freshbeans wrote:

Those little 1 lb things are no problem.Handy size, and pretty harmless. The ones that hook right up to the little tank, right?
My concern is with any unregulated line leaving the fuel source.
-Scott


There's an adapter available that converts from the 20 lb bbq drum valve fitting to the 1 inch by 20 thread (1lb bottle) to allow attaching the smaller table top grill adjustable regulators to your 20 lb tank.

In order to have the regulator mounted at a convenient location for continuous adjustment during a roast you could use brass pipe/tubing and fittings to go from the 20 lb tank valve to where ever you'd want to mount the regulator. This way you don't have a hose under high pressure.

OTOH, these regulators appear to only handle up to around 15,000 btu/hr. Is this enough for roasting 5 lb of coffee in a grill?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
JETROASTER
Great, pipe sounds better!
I used one of those on a 2.5lb air roaster and it worked fine....but only with the 20lb tank. With the 1lb tank...the tank froze up after 2 batches!!

I bet on a grill/drum it would be plenty. -Scott
 
norvegicus
I just did my first batch with the regulator I got from Unta's linked site. All your warnings were too late for me because I just read them now! Fortunately nothing dangerous happened and this regulator did in fact prove useful in this application.

Wow, when I cranked it up to 8psi or so my roaster was like a blast furnace! With the factory grill regulator it takes about 8 minutes on full heat to preheat to 500? F. Today it took two minutes. I think I burned a bit of paint off somewhere in there too.

However, I also had very usable fine temperature control. I turned the grill valves down to minimum for most of the roast and then made adjustments with the regulator. I was able to choose my temperature within 5? F and it would change and stabilize within 10-15 seconds with a small twist of the regulator knob. Thankfully it was not 1/8 twist from full on to full off as allenb worried; I probably used about 3/4 of a full turn for control throughout the roast cycle once I backed it down from the blast furnace setting.

The only problem is the regulator shipped with a 0-60psi pressure gauge installed and I am roasting at around 0.5-1 psi most of the time, so the gauge is kind of useless. Not a big problem because I am adjusting to a temperature and my thermometer is awesome, but I might get a low pressure gauge.

I got the ACME fitting with the regulator, looks like this,

i.imgur.com/SecSn.jpg

so I don't think I need a control valve becaue the regulator attaches directly to the tank so there is no unregulated section of hose and the regulator control knob is 4 inches from the tank's shut off valve, which is what I use to shut down. My tank mounts on the side of the grill and both valve and regulator are immediately at hand while operating.
Sean Rooney
www.rooney.org/tlc/smileys/cheers_coffee.gif
 
Dan
I have a very similar setup on my gas torch and it works just as described. I don't have a pressure gauge. My torch comes with a fine control valve that I use to adjust the flame. I've been wanting to get that ACME fitting so I don't have to use a wrench to attach it to the tank every time I want to roast.
 
allenb
That's great news that you can use a high pressure reg on a grill and get a good turn-down ratio. I'm guessing that dialing down the burner valves as you've done makes it operate similar to high pressure burner setups with smaller orifices. This is a whole lot less headache than trying to adapt a tabletop grill regulator to a 20 lb drum!

Hopefully this will help others with BBQ roasters who want better control.

We'll have to see if a 0-2 psi gauge is available for accurate feedback.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Dan
The last item in a burner system is the orifice itself. It's diameter depends on the operating pressure, the desired heat output, and maintaining enough, but not too much, velocity in order to sustain the venturi action for mixing in oxygen. Sometimes you want to change that hole size. Of course you can try to find a new one, but I just modify the one I have.

Small number size drills are used to open up orifices. That's easy.

But what about making holes smaller? I have had success in reducing orifices slightly with a swaging technique. First, remove the brass orifice. Use number drills to determine what size the orifice is now. Set the face of the orifice onto an anvil surface, vice, or heavy piece of steel. Insert a 3/16" pin punch (has a flat end) into the back end of the orifice and strike hard with a ball peen hammer. Use the number drills to determine how much smaller the hole has been swaged. Continue until the drill size you want no longer passes through the swaged hole, then, using that drill, drill out a clean hole. I have used this to reduce the orifice by 3 drill sizes.
 
jzuzphreek
I started reading this, since a friend of mine got some new welding equipment. He's going to help me fabricate a drum to use on my grill. I have 2 questions though:

1) Is there any negative to hand cranking until I can mount a motor? (Other than the possibility of unevenness due to changes in the force I use)

2) On a grill, why exactly would I need the regulation and control that you guys are talking about when I can just adjust the burners on the front of the grill?
Jessy

IN PRAISE OF COFFEE

This is the beverage of the friends of God; it gives health to those in its service who strive after wisdom.

The intelligent man who empties these cups of foaming coffee, he alone knows the truth.

 
norvegicus

Quote

jzuzphreek wrote:

I started reading this, since a friend of mine got some new welding equipment. He's going to help me fabricate a drum to use on my grill. I have 2 questions though:

1) Is there any negative to hand cranking until I can mount a motor? (Other than the possibility of unevenness due to changes in the force I use)

2) On a grill, why exactly would I need the regulation and control that you guys are talking about when I can just adjust the burners on the front of the grill?



Sorry about the lateness of this reply, I've been away.

1. Hand cranking would be fine, but you're going to get tired cranking several pounds of beans at 60rpm for 12-15 minutes.

2. The controls on regular grills are crude and do not offer very precise control, so it is difficult to establish any kind of consistency in roasting. I found it difficult to control what was going on and it was either too hot or not hot enough most of the time.
Sean Rooney
www.rooney.org/tlc/smileys/cheers_coffee.gif
 
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