topbanner.gif
Login
Username

Password




Not a member yet?
Click here to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

10/19/2021 6:22 AM
Welcome tarunk!

10/17/2021 12:40 PM
Ploni and nader fouad, Welcome!

10/15/2021 2:19 AM
merlot85, maycondelpiero and hoeltz, Welcome !

10/14/2021 10:06 AM
Thanks for the addition to the group. Seriously considering building a drum roaster along the lines of oldgrumpus's. Love the design and craftsmanship.

10/14/2021 4:00 AM
Morning, ar3mia ! and... coffee drink

In Memory Of Ginny
Donations

Latest Donations
JackH - 25.00
snwcmpr - 10.00
Anonymous - 2.00
Anonymous - 5.00
Anonymous - 5.00
Users Online
Guests Online: 19

Members Online: 1
Ploni

Total Members: 7,363
Newest Member: tarunk

View Thread

Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Print Thread
arduino, TC4, and halogen heat control
yamhill
I have an arduino in hand and a TC4 on the way. I'm looking to control halogen radiant heat (think halogen bulbs) inside a drum roaster. I have an SSR in hand, but I'm thinking that that halogen bulbs won't do well with the on/off cycling. So I'm expecting that I'll need to have a dimmer circuit and control the dimmer. Does this sound right? I'm looking for suggestions - hoping not to reinvent the wheel.

I can solder and read a schematic, but I have limited electronic design skills.

John
JimG
The TC4/Arduino can be programmed to provide phase angle control, i.e., dimmer control. The software is already written and beta releases are on the TC4 project googlecode site.

aCatauiQ and aArtisanQ are the two applications that support phase angle control. With aCatuaiQ, you control the output using a dial potentiometer (or two). With aArtisanQ, control is done through the Artisan software by clicking on-screen buttons for different output (%) levels.

If you go this route, you will also need a postage stamp-sized circuit board that connects directly to your mains supply (a bit risky, so requires extra care) and sends a signal to the TC4 every time it detects that the AC sine wave crosses zero. This was creatively named a zero cross detector (ZCD) board. (I have a few of these available for the cost of parts).

You will also need either a TRIAC or a random fire SSR (Crydom D2425-10, etc). These devices are capable of being switched on at exactly the right time during each AC cycle to deliver the % power requested. Standard SSR's cannot do this.

Jim
Lylabrown
Hey John,
If I understand correctly, You'll have a dimmer between the SSR and the Lamp.
That's fine as long as the dimmer can handle the higher wattage. It'll give you more fine tuned control of the heat output %. Instead of purely relying on the On/Off cycling of the SSR. Although it might confuse the software of your PC + arduino and cause overshooting undershooting issues if you fiddle with the % too often. Maybe after a few test runs you can figure out what % output on the dimmer works best (causes less cycling), and stick with that. Also, bulb life will be shorter when using a dimmer.

Hope this helps. I'd love to hear more about your build!

Russ

Edit: Oops, looks like JimG got in first. Sorry for the confusion.
yamhill

Quote


If you go this route, you will also need a postage stamp-sized circuit board that connects directly to your mains supply (a bit risky, so requires extra care) and sends a signal to the TC4 every time it detects that the AC sine wave crosses zero. This was creatively named a zero cross detector (ZCD) board. (I have a few of these available for the cost of parts).

You will also need either a TRIAC or a random fire SSR (Crydom D2425-10, etc). These devices are capable of being switched on at exactly the right time during each AC cycle to deliver the % power requested. Standard SSR's cannot do this.

Jim


I'll want a ZCD board.

Is the Crydom NTD2425 capable of this as well? I'm not understanding the difference from the datasheets.

John
JimG
It looks like the NTD series might be OK, too, but you'd have to get one that has the "-10" suffix, e.g., NTD2425-10.

What's the total wattage of your halogens?

Jim
JimG
I really don't know much about halogen heaters, so take the following with a grain of salt.

I've recently started using an integral cycle control (ICC) algorithm in espresso machine controllers that does not require a random fire SSR, but provides something pretty close to the non-flicker performance you get from phase angle control.

The switching is done at the zero cross of the AC signal, but the software makes a decision every 1/120th second as to whether the next little AC wavelet should be on or off. The decision is based on the requested power output as well as how many recently past wavelets have been on versus off.

If you apply this to an incandescent light bulb, you will still see some flicker at lower output settings. But much, much less than the abrupt on/offs that a traditional PWM methods gives.

The ICC algorithm I wrote reduces the gaps between on times and off times to the absolute minimums, given the limitations of only being able to switch every 8.33 ms.

Both aCatauiQ and aArtisanQ have this option, too, as well as true phase angle control. And the ICC option works with almost any SSR.

Jim
yamhill

Quote

JimG wrote:

It looks like the NTD series might be OK, too, but you'd have to get one that has the "-10" suffix, e.g., NTD2425-10.

What's the total wattage of your halogens?

Jim


My plan is for 1000 watts comprised of two 500 watt bulbs - so not a lot of power.

Thanks for helping me understand the SSR capabilities needed. Based on the SSR information, I'll need to get some new ones. I finally found the right datasheet that describes the "-10" suffix (just like you did) http://www.crydom...og/s_1.pdf

I don't know much about halogen bulbs / heat either, but I'm learning. :)

John
yamhill
Here's a brief update: I received and soldered the TC4 board last night. I think I have a free thermocouple or two here somewhere. I'll try to get the software up and running tonight.

I'm not sure yet on the right integration for the dimmer circuit and control. I have the ZCD board and I got a couple of triacs that should be able to handle the current and voltage - even in a noisy environment. I found some sample circuits, but I haven't worked out the details yet. Do you have sample circuits or suggestions for triacs versus SSRs on the phase angle control?

I'm also reading through some posts here to consider the different software options.

John
JimG
I have only used random fire SSR's for phase angle control. Crydom D2425-10 to be specific.

Here is a circuit layout that has worked for me:
http://tc4-shield...111120.jpg

TRIACS should work equally well, but I haven't tried one yet.

Jim
greencardigan

Quote

JimG wrote:

If you go this route, you will also need a postage stamp-sized circuit board that connects directly to your mains supply (a bit risky, so requires extra care) and sends a signal to the TC4 every time it detects that the AC sine wave crosses zero. This was creatively named a zero cross detector (ZCD) board. (I have a few of these available for the cost of parts).

Jim,

Are you able to post the details of your ZCD board here?
JimG
Brad -

I have uploaded PDF's of the schematic and board layout to the project repository:

https://tc4-shiel...e/ZCD/V006

With the author's permission, I lifted the design from this web page:

www.dextrel.net/d...rosser.htm

Jim
Jump to Forum:

Similar Threads

Thread Forum Replies Last Post
New Fluid bed roaster- Help with how to control it Fluidbed Roaster 5 10/12/2021 1:34 PM
Testing Arduino UNO with bitwisetech / popc and MAX6675 Popcorn Popper roasting 67 10/07/2021 4:32 AM
Larry Cotton's 'wobble disc' heat gun build Heat Gun Roasting 12 09/24/2021 9:16 AM
Is automated Artisan PID control of a drum roaster a "fool's errand"? Drum Roasters 8 08/30/2021 5:47 AM
Roaster Control Wiring Fluidbed Roaster 4 07/22/2021 10:20 AM
Homeroasters Association Logo, and all Content, Images, and Icons © 2005-2016 Homeroasters Association - Logos are the property of their respective owners.
Powered by PHP-Fusion Copyright © 2021 PHP-Fusion Inc
Released as free software without warranties under GNU Affero GPL v3
Designed with by NetriX