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allenb
05/28/2023 6:19 PM
Laurierejoice 
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05/16/2023 11:49 AM
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 Double Barrel Blending Roaster
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| allenb |
Posted on 02/11/2013 9:38 PM
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 Administrator  Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
I second Jon's assessment! Beautiful build/craftsmanship. Looking forward to seeing a vid of some beans tumbling in those drums with smoke wafting out of the mouths. Very clean wiring and electrical layout to boot. It's good to hear the TC4C came up without a hitch. I'd be very interested to hear more about the heat % in time steps to control the ramp. Is this a roastlogger feature? Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| allenb |
Posted on 02/11/2013 9:46 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Russ wrote: In a test roast, the beans reached second crack with the bean probe reading 345*. Any chance outside air is being pulled in to the lower portion of the drum mouth while hotter air is exiting at the upper portion causing the erroneous low readings? Allen Edited by allenb on 02/12/2013 8:26 AM 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Lylabrown |
Posted on 02/12/2013 12:34 PM
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 1/4 Pounder  Posts: 158 Joined: February 15, 2012 |
Hey Jon & Allen. Thanks for your compliments. I'm still amazed at how well this project has progressed. It's a pleasure to use, and look at. Allen Wrote: Quote I'd be very interested to hear more about the heat % in time steps to control the ramp. Is this a roastlogger feature? Indeed, It's a feature of the roastlogger + arduino combo. Here's the interface:  As you can see, the "actions table" allows for heater & fan % control in steps. The time isn't explicitly entered, but is controlled by proxy once the heater response time is known at the various stages of the curve. It does seem to be prone to changes in the environmental conditions. Which can be mitigated by using the manual heater & fan sliders to get things back on track.  The PID interface has 30 ramp settings with a "ramp to" column to make the ramp more linear (vs a stair step pattern in the ramp). Another neat feature of the PID is that implements % heater control by default. Instead of being 100% on or off, it calculates the heater power % to stay on the curve. Allen Wrote: Quote Any chance outside air is being pulled in to the lower portion of the drum mouth while hotter air is exiting at the upper portion causing the erroneous low readings? You hit the nail on the head Allen. I did a test this morning holding a burning incense just below the front opening. Sure enough, the smoke was sucked right in. If we rewind to two weeks ago: I double walled and insulated the drum shells, upped the heater wattage to 1750 (from 1350), and sealed air gaps along the seam of the modular "top" where it rests on the heater section. The sealing of the air gaps seems to be the problem. I just removed the seal and re-tested using the incence, and surprise, the air is no longer sucked into the front opening. Problem solved. The BT probe is now reading with closer parity to the ET probe than before. This just sprung to mind: Maybe it would be a good idea to have air intake ports below the heating coils to allow for metered air intake. That would create the positive air flow needed at the drum openings. Being below the element, the incoming air would be pre-heated too. Sliders can be installed to fine-tune the flow. Would it work? Russ |
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| allenb |
Posted on 02/12/2013 6:05 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Quote Lylabrown wrote: This just sprung to mind: Maybe it would be a good idea to have air intake ports below the heating coils to allow for metered air intake. That would create the positive air flow needed at the drum openings. Being below the element, the incoming air would be pre-heated too. Sliders can be installed to fine-tune the flow. Would it work? Russ That is exactly what I would do and the adjustable sliders will provide some great control to keep from having too much chimney affect. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| allenb |
Posted on 02/13/2013 10:33 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Quote Lylabrown wrote: Allen Wrote: Quote I'd be very interested to hear more about the heat % in time steps to control the ramp. Is this a roastlogger feature? Indeed, It's a feature of the roastlogger + arduino combo. Here's the interface: As you can see, the "actions table" allows for heater & fan % control in steps. The time isn't explicitly entered, but is controlled by proxy once the heater response time is known at the various stages of the curve. It does seem to be prone to changes in the environmental conditions. Which can be mitigated by using the manual heater & fan sliders to get things back on track. Russ Looks interesting. I think for one to really understand it's functioning you'd need to see it in action. Please put a post together when you've browned some beans using this feature. Maybe you could give it a step by step during a roast. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Lylabrown |
Posted on 02/19/2013 3:36 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 158 Joined: February 15, 2012 |
Thanks for your help Allen. I've managed to install vent ports & sliders in the heater box. The ports are 1" round holes lined with metal pipe. There's two on each side beneath the coils. Here's a photo of the slider knob:  There's one on each side. It's in the open position. To close, it's slid inward till the knob is flush with the housing. With that done I ran another test of the temperature ramp. Here's the chart:  The light lines are a previous ramp with no intake ports. The dark ones are with the new ports left wide open. As you can see, the BT + ET are much closer together. And the RoR is improved as well. The curve is a little jaggly due to running a battery charger on the same circuit. With that done, I'll do a few roasts to get a feel for it. Then report back with a more comprehensive post of the control method. A video might be better to show how it works on the fly. Russ |
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| allenb |
Posted on 02/19/2013 9:50 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Looking good, you don't waste any time fabricating! I think you'll find you'll have a lot more control of the roaster with this feature as well as eliminating the cold air draw in at the mouth. Another useful outcome of the damper is the ability to keep it closed during the first 1 to 2 minutes to allow a high moisture environment while in the mid 200's F which, as Ringo noted, can have a positive affect on the roast. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Lylabrown |
Posted on 02/25/2013 3:57 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 158 Joined: February 15, 2012 |
Your thoughts are spot-on Allen. The dampers add another useful control variable. The best part is the ability to slow the roast once the heater output is lowered. With no dampers - the "E" temperature fell slowly when the heater was off. Now it drops off immediately. Which is very useful when trying to slow the roast @ first crack. Couple that with the improved RoR with the inlets open, and we have a much more responsive roaster. Here's a log of two roasts, the dark lines are a Nicaragua & the light ones are Burundi's:  The same action table was used for both roasts. The Burundi's are small and hard beans & the Niacaragua's are large soft beans. I wanted to see how the roaster handles two drastically different beans using the same settings. Disregard the "FC end" on the dark lines. I forgot to press the button at the right time (12min). The pre-heat temperature is 350*, which after dropping the beans in, they bottom out at the ideal drying temperature. Once the beans are loaded Roastlogger detects the temperature drop and begins logging + activates the action table. The first step is to apply 100% heater till the beans reach drying temperature (260*). Then 50% heat is applied to allow for a very small RoR. Once 275* is reached - Roastlogger advances to the next step. In this case 100% heater is applied until first crack. When first crack begins. The button under the graph is pressed, the graph is marked & the action table advances to the "Actions after FC" tab. Where 25% heater after 30 seconds is entered. Which seems to give a nice & slow RoR leading into second crack around 5min after 1st began. To help push the beans into second crack I have a setting on the action table to output 40% heater once 415* is reached. I dump the beans once the snaps of second become consistent (Full City). Once the beans are dumped, the "End" button is pressed & the logging stops. Pretty dang neat! There's plenty of room for refinements of the curve, etc. For now, I'm really pleased at how well the TC4C and Roastlogger combination work together. The "action tables" approach does offer a high degree of control over my roaster. It'll be fun to customize profiles for specific beans then make fine adjustments depending on how they cupped. Russ |
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| allenb |
Posted on 02/25/2013 5:57 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Great to hear the damper control provides additional/better control! It's neat when tweaks work out without having to reinvent several times. Roastlogger seems to have a lot of potential. Please keep posting more on it as you log more miles with it so others can know if it would have application for them. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Lylabrown |
Posted on 03/17/2013 3:02 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 158 Joined: February 15, 2012 |
A month ago I upped the wattage of the heating coil to 1750. Since then I've burnt two bus fuses rated at 20amps @ 250v. These ones: http://www.amazon...+buss+fuse Sadly, one of them burned out during a roast the other day. Which happened before first crack. A total loss.  I checked all the wire connections for shorts and such - they're all fine. I noticed the plastic fuse holder has melted on the power-in side of it. Most likely from when the fuse got hot while burning out. My kill-a-watt shows the roaster pulling 1765watts / 14.7amps while running on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. Do you recommend upping the fuse amp rating to 30? Or, is there a better fuse-type to use? Perhaps a resettable thermofuse. Russ |
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| Dan |
Posted on 03/17/2013 3:18 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
A slo-blo 20A fuse is ample protection for a system drawing 15A. I suspect you have some sort of energy draw, not a short, going on that is pulling right at 20A. The reason I say that is because your fuse holder got hot. If it was a short the fuse would have blown instantly, meaning no heat build up. But first, check to make sure your fuse holder is rated for 20A or higher. And check that all the wiring going from the receptacle to the heater is capable of handling 20A. I'm guessing that it should all be 14ga. Oh, and regardless, replace that fuse holder!
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/17/2013 4:01 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
+ 1 on Dan's comments. I would also suggest isolating your heating element circuit and get a resistance reading down stream of your SSR to make sure you've really got 1750 watts worth of nichrome. I'm also going to assume your drive motors are not pulling more than a couple of amps max. Do you have access to an ammeter so you can verify your kilowatt meter's readings? Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Lylabrown |
Posted on 03/17/2013 6:46 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 158 Joined: February 15, 2012 |
Hey Allen & Dan, Thanks for your help troubleshooting this one. I'm really baffled. FYI. The wiring is 10ga from the wall socket all the way to the heater terminals. All the electrical connections and switches in between are rated 20a @ 120/240v. The buss fuse holder is rated 20a @300v as well. It was overbuilt so the fuse would be the bottleneck in the electrical pathway. I don't have an ammeter, just a multimeter. To double check the kill-a-watt's accuracy I tried it on a 1000w water kettle & 1200w space heater - both tested within 50w of the stated wattage. While out at the hardware store to get more fuses I chatted with the resident electrician. He suspects the "microwave type" bus fuses can't handle a sustained load of 3/4 of their rating, and consequently overheat. Also, the fuses are fast-blo not slo-blo, I linked the wrong ones in the earlier post. Does that make a difference? I'll keep digging. Any further advice? Russ |
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| Lylabrown |
Posted on 03/18/2013 12:15 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 158 Joined: February 15, 2012 |
Found it. The supply wires that feed into the ceramic terminal block for the nichrome coil show signs of overheating. I believe the 10ga teflon/fiberglass sheathed wire is rated for 480 degrees f. Also, the copper strands are coated with zinc, not nickel. The zinc coating has burned off a full 2" from the connection point. That means the wire was exposed to over 700* f. De-rating its current capacity to less than 50%. Upping the resistance & amperage - blowing the fuse. Here's a picture of new vs burnt wire.  I'm guessing that by recently shortening the lenght of the nichrome to increase the wattage it also caused the temperature at the connection point to increase. I did notice the nichrome glowing yellow-orange instead of orange. Becoming "the straw that broke the camels back". I think this wire will be better: http://www.omega..../HTMG.html Would it be wise to get 8ga instead of 10? Russ |
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/18/2013 3:40 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Russ, One method sometimes used in industrial ovens is to use ceramic isolator bushings that include a machine screw through it. It's sometimes called a high temperature ceramic bulkhead bushing and is meant to keep the insulated wire on the outside and on the inside hook your nichrome directly to the machine screw via nut/washer. One half of the bushing goes on the inside and the other on the outside. This eliminates having to use wire with an insulation capable of nuclear furnace temps on the inside of your heat box. It's not easy to find but if you call one of the appliance repair parts houses they'll usually have them for sending with dryer restring kits. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Lylabrown |
Posted on 03/18/2013 4:12 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 158 Joined: February 15, 2012 |
Thanks a bunch Allen. The terminals in this image fit your description: Is that what you have in mind? |
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/18/2013 4:21 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
That's the one. I used those on my easydrum 1lbr and work great! Let me know if you find a source where you can buy just the bushings without nichrome attached. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Lylabrown |
Posted on 03/18/2013 4:51 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 158 Joined: February 15, 2012 |
Here's one: http://www.partsd...QgodwUMAlQ The price is a bit steep. Cheaper than nuclear grade wire though. Russ |
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/18/2013 5:08 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Good find! You're right about being steep! I had some on hand from when a supplier sent me some restring kits years ago but I had no idea they were that pricey. Maybe ones local appliance repair shop might have some collecting dust and would be willing to part with them for some coffee or a couple of bucks. Thanks for finding a source. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Lylabrown |
Posted on 03/21/2013 3:22 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 158 Joined: February 15, 2012 |
Back in business! The folks at the local appliance repair shop sold me the terminals for a couple bucks. The install was simple, although I did make a new heater box liner out of aluminum. I also made a support for the coils out of knob & tube fittings, and added a 20amp resettable fuse.   I did a test running the heat at 100% for half an hour. The lead wires stayed nice and cool with no discoloration, and more importantly - no blown fuses. Thanks for your suggestion about the terminals Allen. You saved the day! Russ |
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/21/2013 6:14 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3684 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Wow, are those coils really that bright or only in the photo? Great to hear the terminal posts worked out and that you were able to find them for a good price! Also, nice touch with the mid-point ceramics support. I hope we continue to have appliance repair shops around. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| rustic_roaster |
Posted on 07/03/2013 9:20 PM
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 1/4 Pounder Posts: 109 Joined: March 30, 2013 |
Quote Lylabrown wrote: Next on the to-do list is the thermocouple probes. Originally I wanted to install one in a similar location to Dan's in the photo above. That location is great if the drums are all skinned the same. In my case the large drum is skinned in stainless mesh, and the small are nearly solid. For a given "E" temp - I think the temperature the beans experience will be significantly different when using the one drum vs the other. So two different locations for temperature readings are needed. The large drum can have a thermoprobe in the 3 or 9 o-clock position and set 1/2" away from it. The small ones should have a probe inside the drum near the top. Here's the bent 1/4" OD aluminium thermoprobe for the small drum:   Excellent job on your roaster. I have a couple questions about the thermal couple tube. It looks like the tube runs from the back to the front then into the chamber is that right? Is it held in place by friction or it secures somehow? |
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| tiopaeng |
Posted on 07/04/2013 4:56 AM
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 1/4 Pounder Posts: 50 Joined: June 19, 2013 |
My compliments to your craftsmanship! Very nicely done. Tiopaeng |
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| Lylabrown |
Posted on 07/05/2013 12:32 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 158 Joined: February 15, 2012 |
Thanks rustic_roaster, Correct, the tube housing the thermocouple wire runs through both the back & front plates then into the drum opening. It's held in place with a shaft collar (the kind with a little hex set-screw) on the back plate. There's a little wiggle in the tube, but it's fine for measuring the environmental temperature within the drum (no bean contact). Hey Allen, Quote Wow, are those coils really that bright or only in the photo? Quote I hope we continue to have appliance repair shops around. Russ |
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| rustic_roaster |
Posted on 07/05/2013 3:06 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 109 Joined: March 30, 2013 |
Quote Lylabrown wrote: Thanks rustic_roaster, Correct, the tube housing the thermocouple wire runs through both the back & front plates then into the drum opening. It's held in place with a shaft collar (the kind with a little hex set-screw) on the back plate. There's a little wiggle in the tube, but it's fine for measuring the environmental temperature within the drum (no bean contact). Russ Thanks Russ. I see you have plots showing BT and ET how do you get BT and do you think the shaft collars would hold well enough to use that approach to get the BT? |
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