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 2nd drum roaster
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| Omega |
Posted on 09/29/2014 6:38 PM
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 1/4 Pounder  Posts: 132 Joined: June 13, 2014 |
Wow! What a project! It takes real commitment and vision to accomplish what you have on this roaster. I'm astounded and very impressed! Barry |
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| witoldb |
Posted on 09/30/2014 2:18 PM
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 1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
ET probe installed in the outlet chute. It is 1.45 mm dia ungrounded K thermocouple.
witoldb attached the following images:
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| witoldb |
Posted on 10/02/2014 4:26 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
Roasted 575 grams Mysoore Nuggets with probe in outlet chute and connected to TC4 as ET and to PID as PV input. Inlet data is temperature before inlet to the drum. I think that I need to reduce load size or preheat to higher temperature. During first 10 min heaters could not deliver enough heat to reach temperature as per SV settings (current to heaters was at maximum).
witoldb attached the following images:
Edited by witoldb on 10/02/2014 4:33 PM Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| allenb |
Posted on 10/02/2014 10:01 PM
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 Administrator  Posts: 3725 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
1500 watts can roast 1 lb in a drum roaster but leaves no headroom. 2kw is recommended to be able to make tighter turns. Is the pan that houses your tubular elements double wall or insulated? If not, you will have quite a bit of BTU loss through the pan's bottom and side walls. Another factor with tubulars is distance between them and the drum. Closer the better. I would try a 350 gram batch and see if this improves your rate of rise capability. Great looking roaster!  Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| witoldb |
Posted on 10/03/2014 2:55 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
Housing of the heaters is insulated with mineral fire blanket. Also drum cover is double wall with fire blanket in between. Distance of heating elements from the drum is approx. 50 mm. I've dropped the load to 350g and RoR has improved. Time till end of 1C got shortened from 16 min for 575g load to 11 minutes for 350g (chart in the background).
witoldb attached the following image:
Edited by witoldb on 10/03/2014 3:05 PM Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| witoldb |
Posted on 10/03/2014 3:03 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
Seeing results for 350g, I've tried 453g and it looks like this will be a limit for my machine. I will try to add few hundred watts heating element to the back wall (if I can find suitable one) to improve temperature control.
witoldb attached the following image:
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| JackH |
Posted on 10/04/2014 11:13 AM
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 Administrator Posts: 1809 Joined: May 10, 2011 |
What I see in your charts is that the ET is dropping during your charge/bean load (as it should) but is taking too long to get back up to roasting level. Your turning point on the BT is good but rises slowly. Both should be recovering quicker. What is controlling the heat in your roaster and are you sure full power is applied when it needs it (after the charge)? My roaster is also electric using a turbo oven top of about 1200 watts. I have to remove the entire top to load beans and it seems to recover quickly. My heater control is manual (variac), so I apply full power after the lid is opened and closed and the beans loaded. I have attached a roast I did yesterday of 560g. My problem is things are going too fast and I have to increase my load to 600-700g. You have very nice roaster build! I wish I could fabricate metal like that.
JackH attached the following image:
---Jack
KKTO Roaster. |
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| witoldb |
Posted on 10/04/2014 12:55 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
Thanks for the pointers. My heat is controlled through PID with 4-20 mA and PWM SSR. I'm raising SV to 230 deg C immediately after charging the beans. Power is at its full as I can see PID output - it is giving full 20 mA to SSR. Looks like there is not enough power as PV lags behind SV untill reaching around 190 deg C/ 1C so additional heating elements may be needed. I will try to roast with partially open hopper chute to decrease air flow and see what happens. Edited by witoldb on 10/04/2014 1:00 PM Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| allenb |
Posted on 10/04/2014 2:23 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3725 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Quote Power is at its full as I can see PID output - it is giving full 20 mA to SSR. Looks like there is not enough power as PV lags behind SV untill reaching around 190 deg C/ 1C so additional heating elements may be needed. It's interesting that your PID controller is at full power all the way until reaching setpoint value. Every PID controller I've used unless the control mode was wet to on/off mode with no PID would necessarily start backing off on the output well before reaching SV to avoid overshoot. Are you certain that it maintains full 20 mA output up to reaching setpoint? I've never found any value in running a controller using PID unless I was using it in ramp/soak mode due to the normal effects of proportional gain lessening output when nearing SV. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| witoldb |
Posted on 10/04/2014 5:08 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
PID is working and 20 mA starts gradually reducing before PV reaches SV. Refering to chart in post No 46, SV was set to 230 deg after charge and reduced to 210 at 9 min. (BT=180 deg) to extend 1C. After charging, PV dropped to around 160 deg at 1 min. (70 deg deltaT from SV) thats why initially signal was at 20 mA. Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| witoldb |
Posted on 10/12/2014 2:33 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
After installing 2 additional heating elements, max power has raised from 1400W to 1900W. Roast log shows 300g Kenya beans with drop-in temp @ 150 deg C + 350g in background with drop-in at 210 deg C. I still need to play with ET ramping values to smooth out RoR.
witoldb attached the following images:
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| witoldb |
Posted on 10/30/2014 3:06 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
I've roasted 300g Yemeni beans with quite good results after setting PID parameters manually. Autotune was not able to find correct P and ARW settings - attached is chart with some step changes after manual tuning and there are no overshoots. I dropped the beans bit too late, next time I will try to drop them 30 sec earlier to get to 20 - 25% range after FC. Black dots show my ramp settings and I'm wondering if those indicated between 4 and 7 min should be set earlier by 1 or 2 minutes. My PID is controlled now by ET in the outlet chute as I was not able to establish right profile using probe on the inlet to the drum. Having now the profile inside the drum, I will try to shift the control back to the inlet. Inlet side control is much more accurate in my roaster so temperature fluctuations inside the drum should come down. Also I want to do this to limit inlet temperatures to 500 deg F.
witoldb attached the following images:
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| Ringo |
Posted on 10/30/2014 6:20 PM
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 Pounder  Posts: 474 Joined: January 14, 2010 |
I think your profile looks great. To me the time to 1st crack looks good. If you want shorter development time but still want to hit 2nd crack I think you need a little more heat after 1st crack. Your environmental temp is almost the same as your bean temp so four roast will slow. If now the difference is 5 deg next time make it 15 deg. I roast very light so when I hit 1st crack I have to slam on the brakes. If i want to pull at 430 and 1st crack was at 405 I can only go up 10 deg per min if I want a 2.5 min development time. When I hit first crack I check rate or rise every 30 sec. But if you want a dark roast you have too keep the roast moving.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
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| witoldb |
Posted on 11/05/2014 1:13 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
I shifted back control to inlet of the drum but I think that my PID is faulty. There are still few degrees PV fluctuations no matter how hard I try to tune it . Also it has around 15 deg C offset from actual values and it is not linear with changing temperatures. My profiles are quite repeatable now but I think that I have to get another PID with ramp/soak. I would prefer to use Artisan PID ramp/soak function but can't find any info how to set it up.
witoldb attached the following images:
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| witoldb |
Posted on 04/04/2015 5:17 AM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
I've changed my PID to Delta DTB with ramp/soak, found it locally for very good price ($60). They had models with only voltage/relay output option but it works much better that Samwon which was $150. It has got 4 PID settings for different SV temperatures and after autotune you can select AUTO mode than it selects settings closest to current temperature. My rod heating elements had high inertia impacting negatively responsiveness of temperature control so I connected 2 circuits in series dropping their power from 1500W to 375W and installed 1600W wire heating coil. Now I switch on 375W rod heaters continuously without controller (alone they raise roaster temperature to approx. 130 deg C) + regulate temperature with 1600W coil through PID. Roaster reacts now much faster but I want to improve it further using 4-20 mA SSR so I've ordered another Delta DTB controller with current output. Attached is my latest roast log where I could achieve almost constant drop in RoR. It was with following ramp/soak settings (in deg C): raise to 270 in 2 min hold 270 for 4 min drop to 260 in 2 min drop to 250 in 2 min drop to 230 in 1 min hold at 230 PID maintained SV settings most of time except 2 to 3 min region. I think that I need to preheat bit longer to stabilise drop-in/ET at 150 deg C.
witoldb attached the following image:
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| witoldb |
Posted on 04/08/2015 2:10 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
I've roasted 2 batches of Ethiopian beans with the same ramp/soak settings. BT and ET temperatures are almost identical.
witoldb attached the following image:
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| allenb |
Posted on 04/08/2015 7:05 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3725 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Looks like you've got excellent control of your roaster with the current setup. BTW, when you post your profile charts, see if you can get them to cover a wider screen area to make them easier to read the data. I'm having trouble reading the numbers. Are you able to set different PID settings for different parts of the roast? Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| witoldb |
Posted on 04/09/2015 1:54 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
I've tried to resize the chart to be more readable and added ramp/soak profile set in the controller (blue line through black drum Inlet temperature). Do you have any tips on how to save/edit graphs to get better resolution but stay within 500 x 500 pixels limit? My settings for Smooth Curves = 1, Smooth Deltas = 11 and Smooth Spikes has check mark - what do I need to change to get smoother DeltaBT ? I still need to play with PID settings to improve actual inlet temperature versus set value line in first 3 minutes There are 8 patterns available in Delta DTB with 8 steps each and I've used only one pattern with 8 settings/steps. I can link the patterns to get more resolution/settings but minimum resolution is 1 minute (00h:00m format). I would appreciate any suggestions/comments where I can improve my profiles.
witoldb attached the following image:
Edited by witoldb on 04/09/2015 2:01 PM Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| ginny |
Posted on 04/09/2015 2:59 PM
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 Founder  Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Quote I've tried to resize the chart to be more readable and added ramp/soak profile set in the controller (blue line through black drum Inlet temperature). Do you have any tips on how to save/edit graphs to get better resolution but stay within 500 x 500 pixels limit? if you click on the photo/graphic it is much larger, how big do you want your graph? the banner at the top of our forum is 900 px x 200 px so I am not clear on what the issue is if your picture is over 1/2 that size in one direction by our asking 500x500... your posting photo is 100 px x 71 px... We can clearly adjust the 500x500 but what am I missing? 500x500 should take up the space available within the post. many need help in figuring out how to size a photo for the web/forum and I think we are being generous in our size. please tell me what I can do to help. ginny 
Edited by ginny on 04/09/2015 3:58 PM |
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| witoldb |
Posted on 04/09/2015 4:27 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
It is 100 x 71 px before selecing it, after clicking on it, becomes 500 x 353 (verified by saving it back to my PC and checking properties). allenb found my chart in post #56 difficult to read (it was 500 x 280) but I hope that this one will be better. Edited by witoldb on 04/09/2015 4:33 PM Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| JackH |
Posted on 04/09/2015 6:23 PM
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Administrator Posts: 1809 Joined: May 10, 2011 |
800 X 800 should not be a problem. The only real restriction on attached images is a file size of 270KB or smaller. Are you using MS paint to resize? Load with MS paint and select resize and skew. Make sure "maintain aspect ratio" is selected. Select pixels and your image dimensions should be displayed. Take the larger number and change it to 800. The other dimension should scale down to fit. Check your file size with file --- Properties. Paint comes with Windows and is easy to use and it works. Apple probably has a similar program. It is a lot easier with Photoshop using the "Save for web" feature if you have it. Please post you photo again at the 800 size and I will edit and fix everything. I have attached a graph at 800 X 455 107KB in size
JackH attached the following image:
Edited by JackH on 04/11/2015 4:15 PM ---Jack
KKTO Roaster. |
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| turtle |
Posted on 04/09/2015 6:52 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 652 Joined: November 06, 2013 |
I've found that keeping my camera set to default at 640x480 helps immensely I still crop and compress in photoshop to get the file size down to an average of 60-70k +/- I wrote this "graphics for the web" tutorial a number of years ago which most should find "too much info" as it is for web designers but the info in it should be helpful. http://www.gotfus...temID=4087 . Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee" Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1 Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+ Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3) Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials) Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto Vacuum: Cona - Bodum Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia |
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| ginny |
Posted on 04/09/2015 7:08 PM
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Founder Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Mick, thank you and you are correct most will be overloaded but thanks... Jack that size should be perfect if members follow the instructions for loading and remember that they cannot see the photo in the preview mode of the post. members can edit if they need after the view. ginny thanks all, -g |
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| witoldb |
Posted on 04/10/2015 12:57 AM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 72 Joined: May 07, 2012 |
Image resized to 750 x 464 px with Photoshop Elements editor.
witoldb attached the following image:
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder 300g DIY drum roaster |
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| snwcmpr |
Posted on 04/10/2015 10:28 AM
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 1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 925 Joined: March 03, 2011 |
As if we need another way to edit the size of photos.... I use Picassa, and when I select a photo I can 'export the file' and that resizes it. After a few tries, it became easy for me. FILE ... EXPORT PICTURE TO FOLDER ... then select options. Ken in NC --------------
Backwoods Roaster "I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast." As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet". |
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