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Drum Roast-Fast or Slow finish
allenb
After reading a recent post from one of our members (not on our site) about foregoing the usual stretch from 1C to finish, I decided to give it a try with my 1 lb drum roaster.

There have been a few in the recent past who have switched gears and found superior results when taking their time getting to 300F (5+ up to 7 min) and then roasting at a linear rate (20 to 35F/min) all the way through 1C and on to finish with no heat taper-off at all.

This obviously shrinks 1C to finish by anywhere from a minute to 2 minutes less than we're used to and was totally counter intuitive to me.

My first attempt with this was last weekend with a nice Guat from SM. The profile I had been using successfully with it was a 5 1/2 min to 300, 25F/min to 1C, 3 1/2 min to finish (city). Cup was very nice but a little lacking in the complexity and sparkle department and not as thick a body as I would have liked but a very nice classic central in the cup. My quick to finish profile attempt was 6 1/2 min to 300 (fast to 225), between 22 and 25/min to 1C and no power reduction during 1C and dumped 2 min after the beginning of 1C.

1C was very loud and full which I haven't heard in quite a while and had only gone quiet for around 30 sec when I dumped the roast.

Cupping difference? Very pronounced. Improved body, much increased complexity (spice and cocoa) that were not present with the slow to finish profile. Acidity bumped up a notch but was not out of balance.

It will be interesting to try this with other varietals.

My guess is that this would not be advantageous for espresso and would add too much in the brightness area.

Anyway, I think it's worth a try for those who like me have been unwilling to tweak the 1C to finish phase for a while.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
John Despres
Imma give this a try as best as I can with a Gene Cafe.

Good post!

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
seedlings
Good post Allen. To me this is a bit like profiling a drum after an air roaster, which can be a great thing.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
snwcmpr
Allen, are there coffees that would not do well with this approach?
I have been turning the heat down from 80 to 30 during 1C.
I would like o try this, but also wonder what coffees work best with this approach.

Thanks,
Ken in NC
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
allenb
Howdy Ken,

I've only logged one roast so far using the quick finish so I'm not much help. I'm going to try the profile and the stretch to finish on any coffee's I pick up from here on out so I know I'm getting the best out of my greens for brewed coffee.

I would suggest trying it on everything and should be a fun cupping adventure!

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
Lawnmowerman
Ben here. My bread maker roaster isnt as efficient at holding the heat, and I cant seem to ever stretch the roast very far past 1st crack before 2nd hits. Maybe 2 to 2 1/2 mins past 1st and thats it. Cant compare to a stretched roast. But its usually pretty good. Sometimes excellent.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
JackH
Allen,

This is not a drum roast but a recent roast with my KKTO roaster. I have been experimenting with shorter times after 1C has ended.

The only change in temperature is a gradual reduction just before 1C to keep the environmental below 500F which I find can be just as important than the bean temperature. Over 500F and it goes too quickly to 2C for me.

The RoR is about 30-40 deg/min at the start at full power and slows to 10-15/min at the end with my adjustment. 550g Honduras Cafe Talora.

Typical roast time is about 12 minutes.

The results are excellent. I am not an expert at cupping but I find it very nice for pour over. A bit bright is what I like but not sour.

--Jack
JackH attached the following image:
hondurascafetalora103012.jpg

---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
allenb
Some of the proponents of the quick finish reported the need to stretch the drying phase. I don't remember anyone agreeing on a preferred drying phase time but I'm guessing a middle ground of 5 1/2 to 6 1/2 min to 300 (yellow).

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
allenb
On a side note. Something I'd noticed over the years but never much thought about and found it occur again with the quick finish is the difference in roast level when moving fast from 1C to finish versus 3 + minutes. In order to achieve the same roast level with a quick finish I'm having to take the beans 10 degrees higher. I also noticed that the quick finish roasts at the same color as a long finish tastes like a lighter roast level.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
seedlings

Quote

allenb wrote:

Some of the proponents of the quick finish reported the need to stretch the drying phase. I don't remember anyone agreeing on a preferred drying phase time but I'm guessing a middle ground of 5 1/2 to 6 1/2 min to 300 (yellow).

Allen


Someday I will pay to taste someone's 6 1/2 minutes to 300F roast. Every time I've tried that it adds a 'black tea' flavored, kind of a 'void' in the middle of my tongue. Often it also reduces the number of pops of first crack significantly. I aim for 3.5 to 4 minutes to 300F

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
snwcmpr

Quote

I aim for 3.5 to 4 minutes to 300F

In my HotTop using the smallest dose ... 8 oz ... Dropping at 375 oven temp .. Heat at 100 ... 3 times -- 30 seconds of fan @ 25% ...

It is 4:30 - 5 minutes to 310 Bean Temp.

No way I can reduce that time except to put the beans in even later than I do or to reduce the dose.

Ken in NC
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
allenb

Quote

seedlings wrote:

Someday I will pay to taste someone's 6 1/2 minutes to 300F roast. Every time I've tried that it adds a 'black tea' flavored, kind of a 'void' in the middle of my tongue. Often it also reduces the number of pops of first crack significantly. I aim for 3.5 to 4 minutes to 300F

CHAD


I've experienced a similar neutralized, void of any character outcome when stretching the warming phase too much in my fluidbed roasters but haven't had it occur with my drum roasters. I recently roasted a Panama with a 7:15 to 300F and 1C sounded like a fire in a firecracker stand. I guess we can add this to the list of drum/fluidbed differences.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
farmroast
with much convection it's hard to go 6.5 to 300 without over drying. In some drum roasters with limiting air it's possible if careful.
Ed B.
DreamRoast 1kg roaster, Levers, Hand Mills http://coffee-roa...gspot.com/
snwcmpr
Thank you Allen
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
allenb
You're welcome Ken!

Ed, interesting point on amount of convection. The roast I referred to earlier having a 7+ to 300F was with my 1 lb drum and it's air flow is dialed back to just barely enough to pull the chaff up the chute. I've been using it with around 900 watts under drum and up to 700 watts inside the drum radiant to bean.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
allenb

Quote

JackH wrote:

Allen,

This is not a drum roast but a recent roast with my KKTO roaster. I have been experimenting with shorter times after 1C has ended.

The only change in temperature is a gradual reduction just before 1C to keep the environmental below 500F which I find can be just as important than the bean temperature. Over 500F and it goes too quickly to 2C for me.

The RoR is about 30-40 deg/min at the start at full power and slows to 10-15/min at the end with my adjustment. 550g Honduras Cafe Talora.

Typical roast time is about 12 minutes.

The results are excellent. I am not an expert at cupping but I find it very nice for pour over. A bit bright is what I like but not sour.

--Jack


Sounds like the KKTO is another roaster that might provide more interesting brewed coffee using a quicker finish.

Unfortunately, I feel guilty just letting the roaster rip on through 1C to finish without letting off on the throttle as I was convinced I had to at least hit 3 min or I was not being faithful to the bean.

I'm sure there are coffees (some Kenya's) that even for brewed coffee will be way to bright using a quick finish especially when shooting for a real light roast

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
georgel
I also do brewed coffee. I use a home built Ronco showtime conversion. My roast time to 1st pop is about 11 min. at` 425* + or - and then finish in 3.5 Min. at~500*. I don't have any automation. But I preheat to 500* then put the beans in the basket. The roaster temps drop to ~300* at that point and build as previously stated. These temps are measured in front of the basket about at the middle. temps vary as much as 100* from the bottom to the top of the unit. I probably should install a convection fan but as of now I get excellent roasts. I use Central American, Columbian, and Ethiopian. Occasionally others. I do some blending but like a fairly bright sweet roast. FC to FC+ tipically.
]
Nunas
When I first got my FreshRoast 500 I used as short a drying time as possible (just enough to ensure the beans rotate), when whacked it up to high, hitting the cool button somewhat before the beans got to the roast level I wanted, at least FC+ and sometimes up to French. These roasts had wonderful aroma, good body and a decent taste for espresso amd milk drinks (which is mostly what we drink).

Since then, I've tried prolonging the drying cycle (low heat), for up to 5 minutes. I've also tried prolonging the time between 1C and 2C (I always go at least into the first few popps of 2C), by cutting back the heat to medium and jucking up the fan speed. While I've achieved differences in complexity of taste doing this, none of these 'sophisticated' roasts have the wonderful aroma of my earlier, faster roast.

Not sure if this makes any sense...just an observation.
Roasters: Quest M3, Freshroast SR500
Grinders: Baratza Sette 270Wi, Breville BCG450, Zassenhaus Havana
Brewers: ECM Synchronika, Caravel 1.1, Zacconi Riviera, Bodum Chambord, Aero Press, Chemex CM-8A, Nissan Plunger, Yama SY8
BBQ grill
Ringo
Ok I am going to tell you another factor that is important. I watch when I cross 300 but I think it's more important when you smell the bread smell and see light brown. I believe this is when you are done drying. If you go too fast you will hit 300 and not have bread smell. So in my notes I write down when I get bread and when I cross 300. This has been big for me in getting repeat ability. When I get a new coffee the first variation I try is the time after 1st crack. I will try 2.5 min and 3min and see the one I like he best. I try to be at 7 min from end of drying to start of first crack. I will move this around if I have time and test. On my roaster natural processed coffee Is better with a longer pre 1st crack stage, it's the only way I can get blueberrys. Take notes of the roast and cup he coffee, I do not take time every time sometimes you just need to roast but when I do I learn something. On my roaster a fast finish will have lots of acid but it will be simple flavor. If I go too long the coffee will be flat. So I think my task as a roaster is to balance the complexity without burning out all the acid. I roast on a drum, an iroast2 and behmor they all need much different times. The drum needs the longest roast and the longest finish the be good. I believe 2.5 min after 1st crack on the behmor is too much but great in the drum. On my drum airflow is also very important, if I pull too much air through the drum during roast my smells will be killed. Sorry for the run on post but this stuff seems to work for me.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
allenb
Morning Ringo,

Hey, great post and aint a run-on.

Very interesting tips about the bread aroma at end of drying. I'm going to open up a tiny vent hole in my exhaust ducting. Since I've moved recently I haven't had time to set up the roasting station properly in my shop yet.

Also interesting is the 7 min dry to 1C. I rarely go beyond 5 1/2 minutes for this stage. Two questions. Are your typical roasts hitting around the 15 min mark or longer? Have you found any of the commercial roasters (drum roasters) spending that much time during the browning stage?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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