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Page 1 of 2: 12
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 Hottop after GC
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| Barrie |
Posted on 04/08/2013 12:09 PM
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 Pounder  Posts: 504 Joined: April 10, 2012 |
Quote ginny wrote: yes, the old chaff tray, the older models did not have the "try reminder" beep. been there done that. I was looking at the Hot Top site and it appears you can buy the 8828 B 2K and get the upgrade board/panel for 200 bucks to the P while paying 120 for the B panel if you have the P so buying the B and then the P panel is the same cost as buying the P to begin with and you end up with two roasters if you wish. too many 8's and 2's, P's and B's... gin My mother taught me to mind my Ps and Qs, but did not say anything about the Ps and Bs. 
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time." Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso). |
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| Barrie |
Posted on 04/08/2013 12:13 PM
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Pounder Posts: 504 Joined: April 10, 2012 |
Quote Randy G wrote: Quote Randy's manual is excellent but there is no trouble-shooting section, so this idiot just had to find out for himself. Hmmm... http://www.hottopusa.com/trouble.html  I had forgotten about that on the website, Randy. I doubt it would have straightened me out, though. Just as a passing thought, would it not be a good idea to include troubleshooting in the manual? Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time." Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso). |
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| bud |
Posted on 04/08/2013 1:30 PM
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 Newbie  Posts: 21 Joined: April 01, 2012 |
Lots of talk about these panel swaps. hmmm, maybe I will get the 8828 P 2K to go with my B model. from their website there is no issue with compatibility between the B and P panels; just swap them out and you have two different machines. I wonder if the panel P will remember it's programs if it is unplugged and set aside while the other is being used? of course it will, it's like a hard drive in that respect. bud 
"the beer was very cold and wonderful to drink"
brew with old perc |
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| ciel-007 |
Posted on 04/08/2013 2:26 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 651 Joined: April 03, 2012 |
Quote The Hottop P model was my very first Hottop, and a wonderful improvement over my GC. The P model is very pleasant to use, and it yields great roasts. However, I quickly discovered an important limitation in the P model; it concerns the slow ROR of the temperature inside the roasting chamber. In order to increase "boldness" in my espresso pulls, I discovered that high bean drop-in temperatures (350F+) and rapid ROR BMT were essential. If memory serves me correctly (Randy will correct me if I'm wrong), the hard-wired profile in the P model is such that it takes amost 12 minutes for the chamber to reach 351F - that is significantly slower than it takes any B model to reach 350+ temperatures. Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK?NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
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| ciel-007 |
Posted on 04/08/2013 2:36 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 651 Joined: April 03, 2012 |
Quote Barrie, as good as that phrase might sound, I actually believe that it is an understatement. Based on all the manuals I have seen, Randy's remains THE BEST home roasting manual written to date... in my opinion. As a result, I highly recommend Randy's manual as mandatory reading to any newbie contemplating home roasting. If someone had pointed me to Randy's manual sooner, it would have shielded me from a number of costly mistakes. Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK?NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
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| roybwilliams |
Posted on 04/08/2013 2:45 PM
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 Newbie Posts: 8 Joined: February 24, 2013 |
Quote still need to sell my GC but there is no rush. How much are you selling your GC for? |
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| Randy G |
Posted on 04/08/2013 3:33 PM
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 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
Quote Lots of talk about these panel swaps. hmmm, maybe I will get the 8828 P 2K to go with my B model. from their website there is no issue with compatibility between the B and P panels; just swap them out and you have two different machines. Both models feature non-volatile memory. If swapping be sure to specify if you have a KN-8828B-2K or a KN-8828B-2. And for what it is worth, Few (if any) decide to change their "B" to a "P." Many have "downgraded" from a "P" to a "B." The P is pre-programmed by the user and it uses binary control over the heating element. It allows very little control during the roast. I have always found the "P" programming ponderous and the control it gives marginal. The "B" allows full control which is what I would assume anyone frequenting this sort of forum would want. Even if you use a "SAVED" profile on the "B," you can still manually make changes as the roast progresses. So, true, you can swap the panels back and forth and have two models - one that roasts wonderfully with incremental control over heat and fan speed, and one that doesn't. |
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| Randy G |
Posted on 04/08/2013 3:46 PM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
Quote ciel-007 wrote:Barrie, as good as that phrase might sound, I actually believe that it is an understatement. Based on all the manuals I have seen, Randy's remains THE BEST home roasting manual written to date... in my opinion. . DUDE! I have a small car, and if my head gets any bigger I will have to move up a class to fit through the driver's door! Seriously, your very kind words are deeply appreciated. As that manual progressed through its many iterations as models were released, it became a behemoth struggle to keep it organized and readable. part of the credit also goes to Michale and Hottop USA who gave me a fairly free hand in creating it. The cost of just creating such a tome is substantial, but i always thought that such a roaster deserved it. I am quite proud of it as I am in most of the creative projects I dive into. And beyond that, I received the very first Hottop that came to the US and was a very satisfied user before they became a client. Now... it appears that in the next few weeks I will begin working on a NEW owners manual for Hottop.  Be sure to drop by the Hottop booth at the SCAA Boston Exhibition! |
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| Barrie |
Posted on 04/08/2013 4:40 PM
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Pounder Posts: 504 Joined: April 10, 2012 |
Quote ciel-007 wrote: Quote The Hottop P model was my very first Hottop, and a wonderful improvement over my GC. The P model is very pleasant to use, and it yields great roasts. However, I quickly discovered an important limitation in the P model; it concerns the slow ROR of the temperature inside the roasting chamber. In order to increase "boldness" in my espresso pulls, I discovered that high bean drop-in temperatures (350F+) and rapid ROR BMT were essential. If memory serves me correctly (Randy will correct me if I'm wrong), the hard-wired profile in the P model is such that it takes amost 12 minutes for the chamber to reach 351F - that is significantly slower than it takes any B model to reach 350+ temperatures. Great! I dodged a bullet that I did not even see coming. Of course, if one goes to the logging/control arrangement, then it does not matter? Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time." Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso). |
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| bud |
Posted on 04/08/2013 4:42 PM
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Newbie Posts: 21 Joined: April 01, 2012 |
The B & P issue really depends on your household roasters. living where two roast and in very different styles for different brew methods each roaster has it's advantage. not having to buy two excellent roasters is great and clearly cost effective. bud
"the beer was very cold and wonderful to drink"
brew with old perc |
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| Barrie |
Posted on 04/08/2013 5:43 PM
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Pounder Posts: 504 Joined: April 10, 2012 |
Comparison of Gene Cafe and Hottop: The pathway from popper or Fresh Roast to something more expensive often includes consideration of the GC and the HT. Having now used the Fresh Roast and the GC, and with a few roasts on the HT, some of the differences between the two more expensive are very clear to me and so here is a table laying out some personal observations. For a comprehensive table including these and many other roasters one could do worse than the one on the SM website. http://www.sweetmarias.com/roastercomparisonchart.php If anyone would like a doc file of the table below, send me your email address in a PM.
Barrie attached the following images:
Edited by Barrie on 04/08/2013 5:48 PM Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time." Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso). |
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| ginny |
Posted on 04/08/2013 6:55 PM
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 Founder  Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Hy barrie, would you send me those and I will upload to the download files so folks can download them; what you have posted are really hard to read. I guess I could magnify them... anyway send the to: thegster@gmail.com and I will add your name to the charts and post in download. thanks very much. bye they way, I have a new KN 8828 B 2K on the way. even though i am a long time Hot Top roaster, I had an original Hot Top, it will still be a new machine. I may get a P panel for when I teach my little roasting class. Lots of folks do not want to stand by and fuss with their roasts and they can have options. gin thanks for all your great posts Barrie.  |
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| Randy G |
Posted on 04/08/2013 7:38 PM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
Quote I may get a P panel for when I teach my little roasting class. Lots of folks do not want to stand by and fuss with their roasts and they can have options. Remember that the "B" can be set to "AUTO" and allowed to roast away, yet still affords the ability to change parameters along the way during the roast. IMO, the "P" is for folks who just want to hit a button and get something close each time. Beyond the programming convolutions and the binary control of the heating element, the "P's" three-minute programming segments are lossy. I meant that if you program a segment for 2:00 and at the end of that time you want to extend that segment, you can't, and that 1:00 of time you did not program in is gone for that roast. Additionally, as a teaching tool, you are going to spend more time talking about the way the programming and what all the stuff on the screen means and less time talking about roasting. And just to make it clear, I never liked the P and I was never consulted on the design nor the programming. The new roaster is another matter. I was consulted and I did offer a lot for the programming and logical flow of the control system. How much of it has been implemented awaits to be seen when (if) the production models are available. |
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| Barrie |
Posted on 04/08/2013 7:48 PM
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Pounder Posts: 504 Joined: April 10, 2012 |
Quote ginny wrote: Hy barrie, would you send me those and I will upload to the download files so folks can download them; It is on its way. Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time." Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso). |
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| Barrie |
Posted on 04/08/2013 7:52 PM
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Pounder Posts: 504 Joined: April 10, 2012 |
Quote roybwilliams wrote: Quote still need to sell my GC but there is no rush. How much are you selling your GC for? I sent you a PM on this, to keep the sales aspect of things off the forum. Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time." Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso). |
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| Barrie |
Posted on 04/13/2013 3:38 PM
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Pounder Posts: 504 Joined: April 10, 2012 |
The GC is rapidly becoming a fond memory as the HT and I get to know each other. It is great! With several roasts completed, and the mechanics understood, I am moving on to the next phase(s), and have two questions. Both relate to the logging/control aspect. The HTC+TC4C is ordered but I will follow the suggestion of keeping it external until it is pretty clear that no warranty work is required. First, can someone tell me if it is possible to erase a B-model memory and return it to blank status? Second, as I am about to do Randy G's probe mod for the bean chute lid, then go to the through-the-back-wall approach later, is there an ideal probe that I can use for both applications? I understand it is best if it is k-type but am confused about sheathing etc. There are all sorts in the various write-ups. As it is I still have the simple wire type that I used for my FR SR500 plus a meter, so I am accustomed to these in general. Coming back to the comparison between GC and HT, I took the back off this week, to see how dirty the interior gets, and to look for chaff. After only about a dozen roasts this was not yet a problem, but all those little screws - now that is really interesting. To my mind, there is a gap between the instructions re cleaning and what the design team were thinking? 
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time." Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso). |
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| ginny |
Posted on 04/13/2013 4:57 PM
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Founder Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Barrie: you are not thinking about this clearly. the design team does not expect you to mod their machine. my guess is that less then 5% do mod their HT. and they do not expect most to use the machine much so their basic instructions for "cleaning" are fine. you are the exception for their roaster user. -g |
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| Barrie |
Posted on 04/13/2013 5:14 PM
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Pounder Posts: 504 Joined: April 10, 2012 |
Quote ginny wrote: and they do not expect most to use the machine much so their basic instructions for "cleaning" are fine. you are the exception for their roaster user. -g The manual says, in IX - Cleaning and Care. A- After each roast..... B. After 5 to 10 roasts.... C. Every three months - interior cleaning. In Section IX.C. there are instructions to remove the fan and rear cover etc. That is what I did, a bit in advance I admit, but was it not curiosity that killed the cat? Then there are those screws. Is it not still "basic" if one uses the machine for three months?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time." Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso). |
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| snwcmpr |
Posted on 04/14/2013 8:17 AM
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 1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 925 Joined: March 03, 2011 |
Quote First, can someone tell me if it is possible to erase a B-model memory and return it to blank status? Maybe removing the cover panel, and removing the battery. I asked this question some time ago, and didn't get an answer. I just start a roast and during the warm-up (After pre-heat to 167?) I turn the fan up and down, and the heat down and up. I am then running it manually so I have a fresh roasting profile. Ken in NC --------------
Backwoods Roaster "I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast." As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet". |
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| ginny |
Posted on 04/14/2013 9:05 AM
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Founder Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
The profiles are stored until you save a new profile in the same place as another. Just start a new program, changing your target temps, time and fan speed then save it in any location and it will override what was previously in that location. So you really do not have to dump what was there to add a new profile. Do you have your manual? ginny have a great Sunday. also: http://forum.home...ad_id=1770 |
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| Barrie |
Posted on 04/14/2013 2:22 PM
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Pounder Posts: 504 Joined: April 10, 2012 |
Ginny, it turns out that the logging/control add-on likes to see a blank memory with which to work. That was what stimulated my question. I e-mailed Michael and got a reply just now. He said the same as you. As for turning up the fan and heat, then down again in the early-warming stage, does that wipe the memory or do previously programmed changes made later still take place? Best memory-management practice is a feature with which I have yet to grapple, other than understanding the overwrite feature. Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time." Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso). |
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| snwcmpr |
Posted on 04/14/2013 2:39 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 925 Joined: March 03, 2011 |
I understand from what I have seen .... If I start a previously saved program and -after the time count down starts- change the fan or the heat, then that item i changed will stay that way unless I change it. If I 'stor' it, that becomes the new program. If I don't 'stor' it, the program will run as previously saved. Is that what you meant. It would seem there has to be a small battery to save the programs, unless the chips are programmable, and save without power. Ken in NC --------------
Backwoods Roaster "I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast." As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet". |
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| ginny |
Posted on 04/14/2013 2:53 PM
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Founder Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
The only way to save a program is to do just that, hit save after the roast. At least that is the only way I am aware that it can be done. Unless you save anything you have done after the roast is simply that, something you have done during a roast but will not be remembered or saved unless you save it. NOTHING wipes out old saved profiles unless you over ride them with a new one. The only way memory management works is if you mark down and save to the information to another source the program like roast master or the old pad and pencil... If you have a favorite then I imagine you would want to keep outside notes to remember what it was or simply keep your two favorites and use the third one as the over ride value and test program. That's actually why the P model is such a great machine since it has many more slots for profile storage. So much depends on how you roast, your style and how you use the roaster. I switched from the P to the B this last time. I had had the D before which was like the B model now. So I have gone back and forth, why I don't really know. I bought the P Hot Top because I had just been given the Quest 3 and therefore had a 100% manual roaster. Do you want to save multiple profiles? ginny  |
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| Barrie |
Posted on 04/14/2013 4:15 PM
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Pounder Posts: 504 Joined: April 10, 2012 |
Quote As you know, I am just starting with this and so I don't know the answer to that. I think not and that is one reason I bought the B. At the moment my plan is to keep Ad3 free for my future log/control efforts, and use Ad1 and Ad2, which is what I have done to this point. As for the memory wiping, I do not know where prior progams are stored but imagine in physical memory, analogous to a hard drive. Those certainly retain the info even when moved from one computer to another, and without any applied voltage. I remember years ago I had a large electromagnet designed for erasing data on (magnetic -duh) tapes. As I recall it would also wreck the info on floppy disks and hard drives, but I cannot imagine using that method today. Along the same lines, not knowing the architecture of the memory in the HT, I have no idea as to how new data is sequenced. Does it necessarily start at the same location in memory every time? Does one new overwrite entry create a new starting point and remove access for initiation of the remaining old programming? That is outside my pay grade. 
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time." Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso). |
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| ginny |
Posted on 04/14/2013 4:39 PM
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Founder Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Barrie: The manual states that each program is stored in non-volatile memory; now where on their board that is I have no idea. If I am reading the manual correctly there are 3 separate places that hold data and each time you use one that has stored data, the new data is stored over what was previously in that location. How they do that on their board I have no idea... ginny  |
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