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E3: A malfunctioning machine (urgent)
Barrie
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 05/26/2013 2:58 PM
I recently sold my GC, which was in great shape, and shipped it in an original box with the styrofoam forms etc. On arrival, the buyer (who is new to this) says that when he starts it up, the drum starts rotating then stops with an E3 lit up in the display. I asked him to check that (a) he had temp and time set appropriately, and (b) that the drum was properly in place with the usual click. He has been over it several times and those items are in order. Does this ring a bell to anyone? I need an urgent response to this one, please.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Steve Egge
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 05/26/2013 5:04 PM
Barry,

The manual lists it as an "irregular rotation, read sensor error"

Wonder if a sensor got dislodged in shipping. I'd contact Tim at www.freshbeansinc.com as he is the us distributor, see what he says.

Sorry you are having this hassle. Hope the Hottop is working out.

Steve
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
Barrie
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 05/26/2013 5:14 PM

Quote

Steve Egge wrote:

Barry,

The manual lists it as an "irregular rotation, read sensor error"

Wonder if a sensor got dislodged in shipping. I'd contact Tim at www.freshbeansinc.com as he is the us distributor, see what he says.

Sorry you are having this hassle. Hope the Hottop is working out.

Steve

Yes, I saw this and it is why I asked him to be sure that the drum was properly in place. Why do these things tend to happen on a long-holiday weekend? thumbdown

The Hottop is just great, thank you. I have about forty batches through it, and so am learning the ropes.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Barrie
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 05/27/2013 11:55 AM
I just talked to Tim at Fresh Beans, and he says the most common reason for this is someone trying to run the machine with the drum not properly in place. It meets resistance, over-heats, and a plastic gear on the drive cracks! He offered to help the buyer in any way he can. Always a great resource, and we live and learn?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
ginny
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 05/27/2013 1:18 PM

Quote

the drum not properly in place


that is the #1, the number 2 and the number 3 reason for the error.

your buyer obviously did not place the drum correctly and has run it for x amount of time to get the error.

this error could have happened with a new roaster out of the box that your buyer bought from another place.

has the error corrected from placing the drum in the proper way?

it is really important that when you ask an urgent question and get fast feedback that you follow through and tell us the rest of the story and if it was resolved.

ginny

tiki
Edited by ginny on 05/27/2013 1:29 PM
 
JackH
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 05/27/2013 3:30 PM
Here is a link I found that might help: http://coffeetime...-motor-cog

I guess there is a motor cog that can shift out of position and needs to be moved back in place. It might be something to look into. The motor gears may also be damaged as mentioned.
 
Barrie
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 05/27/2013 4:13 PM
That is very interesting, and is probably the problem that my buyer produced. This will take a few days to resolve but I don't think I need play it out here. I have the answer and thank the above participants.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
John Despres
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 05/29/2013 7:15 AM
Barrie,

Once you post a problem, requesting help and then discover the answer, it is good form and courteous to share the solution in the same forum you posed the question.

I look forward to reading your solution here.

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Web
Barrie
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 05/29/2013 5:38 PM

Quote

John Despres wrote:

Barrie,

Once you post a problem, requesting help and then discover the answer, it is good form and courteous to share the solution in the same forum you posed the question.

I look forward to reading your solution here.

John


John,
I certainly want to be courteous, and usually am to a fault, including online - a mode I have been using since the days of Compuserve. Ginny has already sent me a hurtful PM, chastising (abusing?) me like an elementary schoolboy for something I did not feel I had done, but which she said is my custom!
I sent off a GC, the buyer said it was malfunctioning on arrival, I explored answers here, and accepted them. Between Tim's comments that I mentioned, and those of Ginny, I thought the answer had been adequately promulgated (probably a broken cog caused by a malpositioned drum). Any further interaction will be in the (ongoing and courteous) buyer/seller dialog, but not be related to the question. When I received Ginny's reproach I added a message that she said was adequate. You are saying it is not?
My general feeling now is that I should hesitate to "open my mouth again", for fear of unintentionally causing further reproach-producing offence?

If one could edit a thread title, adding "Problem solved", or some such phrase, that would be very helpful for all readers, but Ginny did not receive that suggestion well. cross fingers

My apologies to all who are concerned and I am so sorry this has ended up on open forum.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
John Despres
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 05/29/2013 8:16 PM

Quote

Barrie wrote:

I just talked to Tim at Fresh Beans, and he says the most common reason for this is someone trying to run the machine with the drum not properly in place. It meets resistance, over-heats, and a plastic gear on the drive cracks! He offered to help the buyer in any way he can. Always a great resource, and we live and learn?


Barrie.

Am I to take it this was the true problem? I didn't understand this was the solution. Was it? Did Tim take care of things or are you and your buyer still waiting?

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Web
smico
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 05/29/2013 9:42 PM
Barrie,

Ginny can be harsh sometimes, but still you can not not to love her. Just carry on like nothing happened. Don't even think about stop talking here. We all enjoy your contributions to this great comunity...

Regards from Montreal,

Miroslav
Hottop B2 + HTC, Cremina 83, OE Pharos, Brewtus IIIR, Baratza Vario
 
Barrie
Top  #12 Print Post
Posted on 05/29/2013 11:16 PM

Quote

John Despres wrote:

Quote

Barrie wrote:

I just talked to Tim at Fresh Beans, and he says the most common reason for this is someone trying to run the machine with the drum not properly in place. It meets resistance, over-heats, and a plastic gear on the drive cracks! He offered to help the buyer in any way he can. Always a great resource, and we live and learn?


Barrie.

Am I to take it this was the true problem? I didn't understand this was the solution. Was it? Did Tim take care of things or are you and your buyer still waiting?
John


It turns out that I sold the GC to an Air Force electronics technician, who is new to roasting. He says he had watched the correct use of the GC on UTube, then took mine out of the box and plugged it in, putting the drum in correctly. He immediately got a partial rotation and the E3 signal. He has been deployed and so has yet to talk to Tim, which he will do next Monday, apparently. Until then, I don't have any more information. He is prepared to do a minor fix but not a major dismantle. In essence, I sent him a machine in very good shape and he says he has done nothing to cause a problem. If Tim cannot help him fix it, we will have a stand-off, and I suspect he will return it for a full refund, through EBay channels. Regardless of that outcome, it seems that, in most instances, improper drum placement is the initiator of this problem. It is possible that a sensor cable was shaken loose in the mail but that seems very unlikely.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
John Despres
Top  #13 Print Post
Posted on 05/30/2013 6:03 AM
Wow. Best of luck. I know the gear, and having taken mine apart many, many times, I can see just how this may happen. I hope it works out.

I agree; the cable shaking loose is an unlikely culprit. I have a hard enough time pulling them loose on purpose...

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Web
ginny
Top  #14 Print Post
Posted on 05/30/2013 6:34 AM

Quote

If one could edit a thread title, adding "Problem solved", or some such phrase, that would be very helpful for all readers, but Ginny did not receive that suggestion well.



Please feel free to revisit the post you took part in and tell us what it is you want. There are multiple ways to edit. I would have been happy to change the title of your thread once it was complete if you had simply asked.

http://forum.home...ad_id=3265


-g

limb
Edited by ginny on 05/30/2013 6:51 AM
 
Barrie
Top  #15 Print Post
Posted on 05/30/2013 8:58 AM

Quote

John Despres wrote:

Wow. Best of luck. I know the gear, and having taken mine apart many, many times, I can see just how this may happen. I hope it works out.

John


Thank you, John. I am still reeling from the double whammy of this problem and that of being told that I am discourteous. I don't know which is worse, but Miroslav's comment was morale-boosting. Thank you, Miroslav. thumbdown
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Barrie
Top  #16 Print Post
Posted on 05/30/2013 9:19 AM

Quote

ginny wrote:

Quote

If one could edit a thread title, adding "Problem solved", or some such phrase, that would be very helpful for all readers, but Ginny did not receive that suggestion well.



Please feel free to revisit the post you took part in and tell us what it is you want. There are multiple ways to edit. I would have been happy to change the title of your thread once it was complete if you had simply asked.

http://forum.home...ad_id=3265

-g

limb


Thank you for the link. I had not seen the later contributions to that thread, which is now very informative, perhaps more so than the declarative statement in the FAQ? I certainly agree that an open-ended edit policy could cause confusion or worse.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
ginny
Top  #17 Print Post
Posted on 05/30/2013 3:04 PM

Quote

Thank you for the link. I had not seen the later contributions to that thread, which is now very informative, perhaps more so than the declarative statement in the FAQ? I certainly agree that an open-ended edit policy could cause confusion or worse.


this is getting old and I am tired, you participated fully in that thread and all comments were within 24 hours; had you any real interest you should have posted and participated in what you asked me if I was reading.

Quote

Are you reading the mail, Ginny?


YES I was reading and I responded because we take a very serious interest in our members wants/needs but we stop when we get no feedback. you ask, we respond and you/members do not respond I can take that as really no interest, simply talk and frankly I have a lot to do...

and do not have time for people who leave no feedback for their issue.

ginny

beach to the beach and tiki time...
Edited by ginny on 05/30/2013 5:35 PM
 
ginny
Top  #18 Print Post
Posted on 05/30/2013 6:16 PM

Quote

Ginny can be harsh sometimes


yes true but I only ask that members are up front and honest in their exchanges with me.

I have no hidden agenda but to make HRO a good place to spend time.

if you take issue with me fine but have the time to follow through and finish your conversation.

that is not a lot to ask.


-g

out on this limb is as far as I am willing to go today.
 
gene
Top  #19 Print Post
Posted on 06/01/2013 9:34 PM
Had an E-3 this afternoon after my last roast.
Knew it was drive system.
Sure enough the small gear was out of alignment with larger one just above.
Mon morn: "Hello Tim, can you help me. Nah, might have been my fault, had my headphones on getting down to the blues".
 
John Despres
Top  #20 Print Post
Posted on 06/03/2013 9:04 AM
Barrie,

Here's what you wrote:

Quote

Barrie wrote:

That is very interesting, and is probably the problem that my buyer produced. This will take a few days to resolve but I don't think I need play it out here. I have the answer and thank the above participants.


The fact of the matter is, yes, you do need to play it out here, which you have done. Thank you.

I do not believe I called you discourteous. I was asking you to be courteous and continue the thread as it should be continued. I was asking that you not be discourteous and post the results you said you would not post.

Once you post a problem, requesting help and then discover the answer, it is good form and courteous to share the solution in the same forum you posed the question.

I look forward to reading your solution here.

You had the opportunity to be discourteous here and you were not. I was suggesting you not go down that path.

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Web
Barrie
Top  #21 Print Post
Posted on 06/05/2013 12:39 AM
FWIW, the latest twist is that the buyer has talked with Tim, and the decision is that it is likely (but not proven to be) a loose or disconnected sensor connection. The ball is probably coming back to my court and I will post the definite answer when it is known.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
gene
Top  #22 Print Post
Posted on 06/10/2013 1:43 PM
On the issue of slipping drum causing broken drive gear. I still don't know how it happened. I was busy cleaning chaff and had the GC in cooling mode. 15 minutes later when I first noticed GC drum was upside down keeping it from rotating. Put drum back in properly, hit the buttons and it just sat there and would not rotate.

Consulted HB and called Tim.

What can you say about Tim Skaling of Fresh Beans? Simply fantastic guy and absolutely top service every time I have dealt with him.

He described how to fix it and sent me two gears, one for a spare.

The old gear is all plastic composite, the new one has a brass sleeve. It is now indestructible!

Actually Tim says all new GC's come with this new gear.

Took a total of 20 minutes, 10 to slowly take apart the Gene, five to fix and five to quickly put back together.

Tim says the old gear would be cracked and sure enough it was. One thing that helped me to reinstall so quickly-took the new gear, matched up the flat spot on the spindle with the D-shaped gear and forced partly on with fingers....., pressed the old gear up against it and gently pecked it on with a hammer and socket extension. Remember. the old gear is already cracked and makes a perfect tool to keep from damaging the new one.
Just put the socket extension against the old gear as you lightly force it into place with gentle taps.

Tim says to use a screwdriver to force it on but screwdriver didn't give me enough force.

Thanks to Barry for bringing the issue up and to Ginny and John for keeping me straight.
HB rocks!

gene
 
Barrie
Top  #23 Print Post
Posted on 07/12/2013 1:26 PM
I now have the final determination of what was wrong with my GC. To recap, I had sold it in good working condition, but the buyer could not make it work. The machine stopped, with an E3 display, almost immediately after turn-on.
Initially, Tim thought it was a fault with the outlet temperature sensing but this was not the case. The machine would still not reach temperatures in the high 400s, and a change of heater did not help. He then changed the CPU chip on the circuit board and that did not work. There was a chip/circuit board incompatibility in the products arriving from Korea, so he replaced both the circuit board and the chip with new arrivals, and all is apparently now working well. The machine should arrive by FedEx tomorrow, and I believe there will be no charge to me (it was within its one year warranty - just). What great service, as we all know!
This has been an extraordinary sequence of events, when viewed from a number of perspectives. The GC worked fine before I sold it, including routinely preheating to 474 before bean drop-in. Shipping was with appropriate packing (Styrofoam molds etc). Tim is at a loss to explain it, other than "it was just one of those electronics things." For my part, I still have every confidence in it and would not have changed to a Hottop but for my deafness and the crack-hearing problem.
Now I have a re-conditioned GC with new electronics (and heater I think) that I will put on the market. I think I will start with Craig's List as that may get me a local SF Bay Area buyer which would avoid shipping costs. BBQ grill
Edited by Barrie on 07/12/2013 1:37 PM
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Barrie
Top  #24 Print Post
Posted on 07/12/2013 1:41 PM
Ginny, the machine was in perfect working condition as far as I was concerned, so something happened after it left here. I refunded the buyer a month or so ago, and as I said in the message above, will now sell the reconditioned machine which Tim says is working perfectly.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
ginny
Top  #25 Print Post
Posted on 07/12/2013 2:06 PM
Barrie:

I was simply trying to get the heart out of your conversation in the post you just made not make a challenge or suggest you sold a bad machine.

You made several comments about the machine and I was not sure if some were before or after - this is new information from other posts.

I am interested.


I see you did an edit after I made a comment, was that for clarity or???

tiki
Edited by ginny on 07/12/2013 2:53 PM
 
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