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Breadman motor wiring
allenb
I'm experimenting with a very nice thrift store Breadman breadmaker find costing $2.50 (half price special) and is like new condition!

I'm stripping everything down as customary for adding manual on/off switch for motor control but I'm seeing what seems to be non-standard motor-capacitor wiring.

Yellow wire is common/neutral from control board going straight to motor. Blue comes from a control relay pin, touches down at one terminal of the start cap and on to the motor. Red comes from another control relay pin, touches down at the other start capacitor terminal and on to the motor.

So, we've got yellow (common) straight to motor, and two more from board, each connecting to opposite terminals of start cap and continuing to motor (three wires total going to motor).

From posts in our breadmaker forums I'm typically seeing only one of the three coming from the board and then on to one terminal of the start cap and continuing to motor. The other two are common from board to motor and the third wire starting at the other cap terminal and on to motor.

There is one post (post #23 below) that shows this wiring scheme but unfortunately, the followup posts don't seem to address what to do with there being two wires from the board touching down on the start cap.

http://forum.home...post_13097

Is this motor doing two speeds or reverse rotation?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
JackH
You have the AC neutral going right to the motor. Can you trace where the AC hot wire is going? Maybe direct to the board.

They might be using a relay on the board to switch the motor power on and off.

Do you have any before photos of the board and motor wires?

Jack
allenb
Unfortunately I didn't take any photos before ripping things apart and tossing all unneeded parts into the dumpster.

Yes, the neutral or common trace on the board goes directly to the yellow wire which is a direct route to the motor.

The other two motor wires (red and blue) come from on-board relay terminals and before ending up at the motor they stop off at each side of the start cap.

The thing that isn't typical here is for both sides of the start capacitor to have wires junctioning from the board on the way to the motor. Almost every other example of breadmaker wiring I'm seeing only has two wires coming from the board to the motor and the third motor lead is coming from the remaining start capacitor terminal.

Maybe the motor does not have an internal centrifugal switch and the start cap is switched in and out via board relays?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
allenb

Quote

JackH wrote:

Can you trace where the AC hot wire is going? Maybe direct to the board.

They might be using a relay on the board to switch the motor power on and off.
Jack


Yes, AC hot wire goes directly to the board if you're referring to line in.

Yes on the relays to switch the motor on/off. Unfortunately, I can't trace where the double pole single throw relays are routing the path.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
Lawnmowerman
Heres what works for me. Trace the hot wire leading to the board. All you have to do is probe for line voltage out of the board leading to the starter. Once you think you have it, unplug the unit then use a spare cord to hook directly to that wire and the neutral. Momentarily plug in the spare cord. If motor runs, youve done it correctly and will know what needs to be bypassed. My guess is that your relay contacts need bypassing.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
Lawnmowerman
Looking at this another way: find out what the relay does by bypassing its terminals. I dont see how this would hurt anything for testing purposes. Then just plug the unit in. I believe it will run. With either method you dont have to worry about what color wire it should be. Let us know how it works as this should greatly simplify the process.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
JackH
Allen, here is another post. He is moding the Breadman too. Maybe there is something of use:

http://forum.home...ad_id=3232
allenb

Quote

JackH wrote:

Allen, here is another post. He is moding the Breadman too. Maybe there is something of use:

http://forum.home...ad_id=3232


Thanks Jack. Nothing there on my weird wiring or anywhere in any site I've been scouring but I could also be skimming too fast and missing a post somewhere.

Thanks for the link though!

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
allenb

Quote

Lawnmowerman wrote:

Looking at this another way: find out what the relay does by bypassing its terminals. I dont see how this would hurt anything for testing purposes. Then just plug the unit in. I believe it will run. With either method you dont have to worry about what color wire it should be. Let us know how it works as this should greatly simplify the process.


Unfortunately, the board is not usable at this point. I've been able to run the motor hooked up in the configuration that most normal breadmakers are wired by leaving one of the wires that go from one terminal of the start cap back to the board unconnected. It seems to be plenty fast but who knows if this is full speed or not. I'm not getting any motor hum or overheating so it's probably fine but I don't like running something when I don't understand it's original wiring.

It's sort of like when you have a couple of important looking parts left when rebuilding your lawnmower engine and it runs fine but you know something's not right and will eventually come back and bite you.

Wouldn't you know I would have to pick up the 1 in 10,000 breadmakers that the design engineer decided to change things up on!

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
David
Hi Allen,

If it's running at all, it's running at full speed. greenman

OTOH, if you find a way to change the speed by shifting those wires around, please tell us how you did it. smoking
David
JackH
I found this diagram that may be some help. It is not for a breadman motor but you can see the wiring.
JackH attached the following images:
capacitor-start-motor-run-forward.jpg capacitor-start-motor-run-reversal.jpg

Edited by JackH on 12/03/2013 7:50 PM
allenb
Jack, I used your drawing to show how my odd-ball breadmaker motor wiring is laid out.

The two relays seem to have operated independently otherwise they could have used one double pole double throw relay but instead used two separate single throw single throw relays. very odd!
allenb attached the following image:
capacitor-start-motor-run-forward_1.jpg

1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
JackH
Some of the bread machines do go in reverse silghtly so the paddle does not get stuck inside the baked loaf. My "R2D2" Welbult bread machine does it.

So, Line to one side of the cap is forward and the other is reverse. I added the other diagram for reverse to my post above.

I think that is why there are extra wires and a relay.
allenb
Interesting. I'll try swapping wires around and see if it reverses.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
allenb

Quote

David wrote:

Hi Allen,

If it's running at all, it's running at full speed. greenman

OTOH, if you find a way to change the speed by shifting those wires around, please tell us how you did it. smoking
David


Yeah, after more pondering, there's no way they would spend the money to build a two speed motor for something like this with the required additional windings or what ever would be needed to accomplish it.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
Poddy
Hi AllenB et.al.,
I've not long acquired the same Breadman and I have buggered a number of machines that have a similar capacitor beside the motor...Would you remember the successful outcome to this thread? I am attaching photos of the wiring -hopefully they are clear enough.
So, If my deductions are correct, "Line" or Tab1 is active, Tab2 is Neutral. Now, the yellow wire goes straight to the motor and the blue goes around to the motor AND the capacitor and the red one goes off the capacitor to the motor as well as per the photos.
Could you, or anyone else, tell me based on the photos & my description, which wires to contact where?
I'd appreciate any help
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