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renatoa
08/10/2022 1:56 AM
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Another Bake Around Roaster and a New Member
keving
First Post here. Chad, Tamarian, thanks for the info via p.m.

After lurking here for several months reading everything I could find on fluidized roasting and bookmarking so many pages my firefox browser looks like a mirror site (just unorganized), y'all have pushed my desire to build a roaster larger than my current, dangerously modified, 60-70 gram hot air popper beyond the breaking point. 1.5 hours to make a 1# of coffee is getting old - not to mention that my half cooked fingers will finally get a reprieve.

SKILL LEVEL:
I am an engineer - petroleum - so no high level mechanical, electrical, or computer skills other than what I was taught by my dad many many years ago and what I picked up along the way. But if you do need to drill a well or have one that needs fixing I can help you out.

Decent with hands. Welding skills: used to have a mig welder and built a welding table, halfway fixed some stuff on the riding lawnmower, built a powerful jet type crawfish pot burner then sold it to a friend along with the torch. This is the guy whose skills I will utilize if welding is needed.

PLANNED BUILD:
With that said, I figured the first step was to determine what I could put together without having to modify my house and workshop (I use the term "workshop" loosely as it more of an overstuffed garage).

Design is going to be much like OGH's design (ok, I am stealing as much of it as I can): Martini Shaker, bake around, KB control board, sink drain pipe, double sided funny car insulation, etc... Just no recirculation. Here in South Louisiana probably need to put an A/C on the suction to keep from having a runaway fire most of the time. Also plan to vent into neighbors pool at a depth of about 3" to help control chaf and and maintain back pressure and RC temp. OK, not really, but I told him I was going to.

I am leaning pretty heavily towards a 220V heating element and 110V for rest of system (completely isolated from each other). The reason is that my garage has a 220V 30amp 2 wire plug + ground. And I have 1 - 110V circuit at 20 amps in there as well. So I think the simplest thing is to use 220 for heating element (the HAS-016k 9A, 220V) and run the blower and everything else off of 110V. I already have a #6 wire 50' extension cord from my generator that i can use I didnt sell that to my buddy when I sold him the mig.

Plan is to start with vc motor on a pot running through either a KBIC or KBCC controller I think the term used here is ZEN PID. Later may switch this to a real pid.

Temp side will use a ramp/soak PID with manual option and some type of K thermocouples to read temps. Plan to use a SSR tied to the PID to control element.

QUESTIONS:
1 -Is this a decent PID to control the SSR (it has manual as well as ramp modes) particularly, does this unit have the correct output for the SSR?:
http://www.automa.../SL4848-RR

2 - Is this the SSR I need?
http://www.ebay.c...1250232645

3 - What is recommended for the wire I need to tie into the heating elements: gauge and type.

4 - many of these pyrex tube type roasters I see on here have beautiful flanges on the top and bottom of the tube. Is that an off the shelf item or were those custom made? and what material was used. I imagine if it is stainless or inconel or something like that, my ends may not look quite so nice.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this and provide your feedback. I am amazed by the talent on this site. My goal is to learn some new things and ultimately be able to continue to enjoy my home roasted Kenyan AA.

Thanks!
Kevin G
 
Airhan

Quote

keving wrote:

QUESTIONS:
1 -Is this a decent PID to control the SSR (it has manual as well as ramp modes) particularly, does this unit have the correct output for the SSR?:
http://www.automa.../SL4848-RR

2 - Is this the SSR I need?
http://www.ebay.c...1250232645

3 - What is recommended for the wire I need to tie into the heating elements: gauge and type.

4 - many of these pyrex tube type roasters I see on here have beautiful flanges on the top and bottom of the tube. Is that an off the shelf item or were those custom made? and what material was used. I imagine if it is stainless or inconel or something like that, my ends may not look quite so nice.


Welcome Kevin,
That PID is compatible with a SSR, and that is a suitable SSR. I can't say anything about your other questions since I'm just using a hot rod popper with a soup can in the top.
Aaron
"Grind it like it did you some great injustice!"D.L.Clark
 
tamarian
Welcome aboard!

Quote

keving wrote:
1 -Is this a decent PID to control the SSR (it has manual as well as ramp modes) particularly, does this unit have the correct output for the SSR?:
http://www.automa.../SL4848-RR

2 - Is this the SSR I need?
http://www.ebay.c...1250232645


Have you decided on the batch size of your roaster? This will narrow down the specs of the needed SSR, which will then help decided the specs of the controller's needed output.


Say you want to roast a max of one pound, you may need 2-3kW element, On your garage's 220V, this comes to 13.6 Amps (3000 Watts/220V). So a 15-20Amps SSR will do. Getting a 30 Amps SSR is better, to reduce cooling requirements or the need for heatsink. The SSR you picked has 50Amps and a heatsink, so it's more than enough. But the model you selected is 480V AC, you need something around your socket voltage, 220V.
Finally, the control input for the SSR needs to match the control output of the PID/controller. Most SSRs, like the one you selected, have 3-32 VDC, while the controller you picked isn't clear about what it supplies. This will be model dependant, and most controller manufacturers have a wide range. Best to call them up and have them point out the model matching the SSR, or better yet, have them pick the right controller/SSR combo for the element you'll use.

Not familiar with their controller, I use FUJI PXG4. Both Fuji PXG4 and PXR4 are widely used here and have some benefits when using Artisan for logging. Let's see if someone here is familiar with Automation direct controllers.

Looking forward to seeing your progress
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
oldgearhead
Sounds like it should turn out just fine. You might try an SSVR for the blower control. I haven't tried one but looks promising. Also, Auber is an excellent source for China-tec goods.
I woulds get a PID with manual control. I never mess with PID or any auto control, because I did enough of that when I was working. I am a retired controls (PLC) engineer.

http://www.auberi...cts_id=353
Edited by JackH on 01/07/2014 10:50 AM
No oil on my beans...
 
Airhan
I use a SSVR to control the fan on my poppery, it works like a charm.
Aaron
"Grind it like it did you some great injustice!"D.L.Clark
 
oldgearhead
I've used a lot of A/D products, and they are first rate.
If you need ramp/soak get one, or a Fuji, or a H'Well UDC,
but if you don't, save your money and get a $45 one with% manual output.
No oil on my beans...
 
keving
Guess I forgot to clarify, about 0.75# to 1.0# is the amount of beans I am shooting for per roast. Hoping for at least 0.5#.

One of the reasons for any overkill is because I may want to expand in the future - maybe 2 heat elements, a roast logging program, etc.... I look at this as a learning experience if you will. And like when my passion (read possessed here) was R/C airplanes, I dove in and built models from scratch from plans written and posted online by folks with much more experience than I could ever dream of having. But, I learned a whole lot doing it that way- more than just grabbing something from the local hobby store already built. Pride, ownership, call it what you want - it was a serious sense of accomplishment. This is what I am looking for here and y'all are my mentors - or tormentors so please don't hold back. To know I can build a roaster with the ultimate result being really good coffee that I can share with others and enjoy with my wife is what it's all about. Heck, the pop corn roaster makes really good coffee - but just not enough to share with others. So that is why I am moving to this next step.

I spoke with A/D today and their tech support set me up with the proper PID and SSR. Bad thing is the PID is back ordered till the end of the month. This unit has a manual mode so I can follow OGH and use %output. I may never change from that, but if I do, I have the ramp/soak option available all for about 50 bucks more.

I will keep track of every part I use and list them in a final parts list. I am not going to rush through this build and will ask a lot of questions as I go. So this may be a long one. 1st component - Glass tube - ordered today!

Again thanks to all.
 
boris
I'd like to bump back question #4 - oldgearhead, how did you end up with such nice flanges holding your bake-a-round?
 
oldgearhead
Boris,
An extremely talented metal forging expert named David Allen from Choctaw,OK made them for me. He posted here up until 2013, then stopped.
His Homeroasters handle was dja.
oldgearhead attached the following image:
dsc_7371_1.jpg

No oil on my beans...
 
snwcmpr
That does look great.
Are there any seals that allow expansion of the glass? Silicone?

Could those dimensions be measured for repeating on a lathe?

Thanks,
Ken in NC
(I have a lathe)
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
oldgearhead

Quote

snwcmpr wrote:

That does look great.
Are there any seals that allow expansion of the glass? Silicone?

Could those dimensions be measured for repeating on a lathe?

Thanks,
Ken in NC
(I have a lathe)


Ken,
First try to locate Dennis Allen. He may have another set.
If you are unable to locate him, let me know, and I'll:
1) Try to find a copy of Dennis' drawing.
---or---
2) Sketch something for you.

The flanges are perfect. The lower one is even recessed for the cocktail shaker.

I have 4 silicone seals, 2 'O' rings to seal the glass and 2 Zach&Dani seals for the 3 inch tube on top.
oldgearhead attached the following image:
dsc_2359_1.jpg

No oil on my beans...
 
snwcmpr
Thank you.
That is added to my to-do list.

No rush, if you ever come across the drawing, I would consider that in a roaster I am dreaming of making for my wife's niece.
I call it a 'future-job'.

Ken in NC
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
oldgearhead
..almost forgot. The 430?F Silicone 'O' rings to fit a a Bake-A-Round are:
_AS568A-340 (ANSI)
_9396K303 McMaster-Carr

WD = .210"
ID = 3.350
OD = 3.770
No oil on my beans...
 
snwcmpr
That's good to know.
Thanks,
Ken
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
boris
OGH,

Thanks, I just ordered a pack from mcmaster!
One thing about your build that isn't obvious to me is chaff control. Are the martini shakers holes large enough for the chaff to get through effectively? (have you ever had fire in your RC?)

Boris
 
snwcmpr
Amazon:
http://www.amazon...s_dp_t_asn

Ken in NC
Edited by JackH on 01/08/2014 6:00 PM
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
oldgearhead
Boris,
Chaff control in my roaster is so simple it's stupid! All it is is two screens,
a 30 mesh from any big box store and a 120 mesh from from Zach & Dani/Nesco.

1) Chaff is trapped by the 40 mesh screen at the top of the RC.
2) After cooling (in the RC) a couple of taps drops all the chaff on top of beans.
3) I vacuum up the chaff with my shop vac.
4) Then I vacuum the 120 mesh screen that protects the blower inlet.
5) Finally, I vacuum transfer the beans from the RC to a Mason jar.
oldgearhead attached the following image:
mc5590_1_of_1.jpg

Edited by oldgearhead on 01/08/2014 11:47 AM
No oil on my beans...
 
oldgearhead
..No fire. Once, early on, I wanted to find out what would happen if a left the heater element on and the fan off while adding beans to the RC. I did scorch 100 grams of Sumatra..remember, for me, a typical PVT is only 520?F.

While roasting, the chaff is separated from the beans by a very tall (6-8") column of air..
Edited by oldgearhead on 01/08/2014 12:05 PM
No oil on my beans...
 
snwcmpr
ERROR:
My AMAZON link above was not for silicone, sorry.
It should be this one:
http://www.amazon...s_dp_t_asn

Ken in NC
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
keving
In case anyone is wondering. The Cocktail shaker is a Chefmate. No size listed but it holds right at 24oz. it is 3.5 on the top and fits nicely in the Bake Around. OGH's recommended seal completes a perfect compression fit. The bottom is just a tad (probably 1/32") larger on it's ID than the 1.5" OD of the lavatory drain pipe to which it will be connected. Will have to HT silicone or HT tape a little at this connection Then use a bolt to couple these 2 pieces together as OGH recommended in his build post. This is found in his heating chamber detail schematic. Here are all the numbers from the label on the shaker before it is pulled off:

Chefmate
SKU: 490700500373
Another: 070 05 0037
last number: ID67455-0037
It is distributed by Target Corp
 
keving
Today the enclosure was cut out and test fitted with the expertise of my woodworking neighbor. Will post some pictures soon. Most parts have arrived and will begin putting them together in short order.

Three things I need help with:

1 - How do you attach the wire to the Heating elements - I cannot find any round connectors as small as the element posts on the National Appliance heating element? They look to be like #2 in size.

2 - I am planning to use the ultra high temp wire mica/glass (good to about 850F) to connect to the element and exit out of the chamber, but I am not sure of the gauge wire. This is 220 VAC and the element will pull only 9 amps. I plan to transition back to standard wire once I am outside of the insulation. Is 14 or 16 gauge ok for the high temp wire?

3 - OGH I am going to use the SSVR you mentioned for the blower. This is back on the 110 VAC side of things. Reading the information on this relay, it states the control output voltage is the same as the voltage being controlled but output is only 2 watts going to the pot. Can I use 18 gauge wire for this control wire? The reason is that the soldering posts on the pot don't look like they could handle anything larger.


Input needed on this topic as well - I am concerned that one element may not be quite enough power to do a pound without recirculation. Would like to be able to do at least 1lb per roast and make it to sc without stalling out. I want to stack 2 elements in an extended chamber with a few inch gap between them. Would run them in parallel on the electric side to give me about 3000 watts. Total amps is only about 18 with this configuration and I am good to 30 on the 220 side of things. I think (that usually gets me in trouble) the elements should be able to handle it with continual air flow and the glass/mica wire on the bottom of the upper stacked element is good to at least 850F so is there a concern here? Has anyone done this before? I searched and found a few comments discouraging this but could not find anything out about the results from anyone who has actually tried this. This element configuration will be controlled by a manual pid.

Thanks!

Kevin
 
oldgearhead
Kevig - Chad (seedlings) built at least two roasters using two heat gun elements. Look up a couple of his builds on this forum. I believe with 220 volts you should use two elements, and you can use them either in-line or side-by-side. However, because I can maintain my blower inlet air temperature in the 135?F - 150?F range, I can easily reach 620?F with one HAS-043K. My heat gun elements came with the brass nuts.

Attaching the wires to the heat gun element? I don't remember exactly what I used, and I have no plans to unwrap it until it fails. I think I used some very small (1.0 mm i.d.) brass washers and nuts on the posts and wrapped the wire around the posts. I'm pretty sure I didn't use any crimp-on connectors or solder. However, I may have had a couple of 'special purpose' brass washers left over from a junk Zach & Dani. I used the same wire you have to connect to the heat element.

__Speed control - Eighteen gauge wire will be fine for the pot.

__High temp wire - My wire is much smaller than #16. It's probably 20-22 gauge. High temp wire is usually smaller than MTW for the same current rating...
oldgearhead attached the following image:
861-1633_large_17.jpg

Edited by oldgearhead on 01/19/2014 9:09 AM
No oil on my beans...
 
keving
Cant seem to post a picture on here. Tried using my walmart photo site and all I could see was one very long address. Is there no way to upload directly?
 
keving
Roasting Chamber
keving attached the following images:
photo7.jpg photo1.jpg
 
keving
Enclosure - not yet finished. Darn picture posted sideways
keving attached the following image:
photo2_1.jpg
 
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