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10/19/2021 6:22 AM
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Fan control after HT Eject
Barrie
I have noticed that, when doing back-to-back roasts with an HT and Artisan control, the fan comes on after pressing Eject at the end of the first roast, but it is not at 100% until one unplugs one end of the USB cable connection. Until now, I had not given it much thought and had just added the disconnect to the routine. I wonder, though, what is going on? The same issue arises during the cooling phase after powering up for the second roast, and before the HT cools enough to turn to PH. Here again, it helps to have the computer disconnected?
What was controlling the fan prior to unplugging?
If it was Artisan or aArtisan, why was it not at 100%?
If it was the HT, was the sketch in conflict until disconnected?
Can anyone shed any light on this? Maybe JimG can answer this question? It is just a matter of curiosity as the solution is clear - unplug the USB cable. ThumbsUp
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
JimG
Barrie

I will look into this. That is not the intended behavior.

Jim
ginny
I honestly do no think this is so unusual because anytime you change/add or subtract to/from any device you will have strange things happen.

you have modified your Hot Top with a device it was not designed for, while that is not a bad thing, you can end up with these types of issues.

I would disconnect your board fro the Hot Top and walk through the entire process piece by piece to find the error causing problem.

could easily be a spike between HT and your board during that process.

Quote

What was controlling the fan prior to unplugging?


you had the machine plugged in yes?


-g


rockon
JimG
Per design, when either the tray motor or the eject solenoid is ON, then the HTC firmware determines that the roaster is in EJECT mode. It then turns control of the fan over to the OEM control board.

While in EJECT mode, any fan control signals coming from the TC4C (via Artisan in this case) are ignored by the firmware.

When the USB cable is not connected, the HTC turns over control of the fan to the OEM control board at all times, not just while in EJECT mode.

In both situations, EJECT mode and USB disconnected, the fan speed control is handled by the HTC by watching the signals coming from the OEM controller and passing those signals directly to the fan.

The way the HTC firmware does this is by watching the OEM fan signal (i.e. either ON or OFF), and then relaying it (ON or OFF) to the roaster's power board.

So there should be no difference whatsoever in fan behavior with USB cable connected vs disconnected while the roaster is in EJECT mode. If you are getting different behavior, then it is a real mystery at this point!

You mentioned back-to-back roasts, but am I right that the issue is present immediately following the first roast, too, while cooling/stirring?

Jim
Barrie

Quote

JimG wrote:
You mentioned back-to-back roasts, but am I right that the issue is present immediately following the first roast, too, while cooling/stirring?

Jim

Yes, but as I think about it the back-to-back part of the story may be a red herring. At the end of the first roast, I press Eject on the HT, the beans are dumped, and cooling/stirring starts in the tray. The rear fan is on but seems weak. I unplug the USB cable and the fan immediately revs up to full power. I suspect that, for clarity, what happens at the beginning of any following roast is best left out of the picture.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
JimG

Quote

Barrie wrote:The rear fan is on but seems weak. I unplug the USB cable and the fan immediately revs up to full power.


There is a short period immediately after eject where the fan intentionally ramps up to speed slowly. This is a matter of only seconds, though.

I take it that this is not what you are describing?

Curious as to what the Artisan fan setting is at this point? This should have no influence, but since I cannot explain why the fan isn't running full speed with USB connected, then I must stall by asking more questions ;-)

Jim
JackH
Jim, does the HotTop's stock mainboard override any fan setting made by Artisan/HTC during Eject?
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
Barrie

Quote

JimG wrote:

Quote

Barrie wrote:The rear fan is on but seems weak. I unplug the USB cable and the fan immediately revs up to full power.


There is a short period immediately after eject where the fan intentionally ramps up to speed slowly. This is a matter of only seconds, though.

I take it that this is not what you are describing? No it is not.

Curious as to what the Artisan fan setting is at this point? This should have no influence, but since I cannot explain why the fan isn't running full speed with USB connected, then I must stall by asking more questions ;-)
The fan is set to 100% in Artisan until I click on Drop, at which point it goes to zero. As soon as I click on Drop, I press Eject on the HT, which should of course result in 100% fan.
So the simple answer is that the fan setting in Artisan is zero at that point. With the delays that occur within Artisan as I have it configured, it could be that Artisan is telling the HT, via the control board, to set the fan to zero about the same time as the control board is trying to send a signal to go to 100%. Presumably only one command can be in force at any one time and so that would not result in a reduced fan speed? A bit of this and a bit of that? I don't think so. :-)
Barrie.


Jim

Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
rgrosz78
I set an alarm to change the fan setting to 100% after I press the "drop button" in artisan. Then I press the Hottop eject button, and the fan remains at 100%.
rgrosz78 attached the following image:
default_-_artisan_alarms_05-09-2014.jpg

Life is too short to drink bad wine ... or bad coffee!
Barrie
Jim,
I am now convinced that, at least in my setup and as measured by the hand test, the fan is not on full at any time when it is set to be so by Artisan. It is as though there is a brake that needs to be released. Very different from what happens when the USB cable is disconnected, although I have not been daring enough to do that on mid Artisan-controlled roast.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
Barrie

Quote

rgrosz78 wrote:

I set an alarm to change the fan setting to 100% after I press the "drop button" in artisan. Then I press the Hottop eject button, and the fan remains at 100%.

In my case the fan is already at "100%" when I click on Drop and then press Eject. The problem is that the fan only goes full blast if I disconnect the USB cable.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
rgrosz78

Quote

Barrie wrote:

Jim,
I am now convinced that, at least in my setup and as measured by the hand test, the fan is not on full at any time when it is set to be so by Artisan. It is as though there is a brake that needs to be released. Very different from what happens when the USB cable is disconnected, although I have not been daring enough to do that on mid Artisan-controlled roast.

I had the same problem at first. Then I remembered the recent change Jim made regarding fan control. After I recompiled the latest artisan sketch, and uploaded it to the arduino, the fan control worked properly.
Life is too short to drink bad wine ... or bad coffee!
Barrie

Quote

rgrosz78 wrote:
I had the same problem at first. Then I remembered the recent change Jim made regarding fan control. After I recompiled the latest artisan sketch, and uploaded it to the arduino, the fan control worked properly.

I have installed the latest sketch, and that made no difference.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
JimG

Quote

JackH wrote:

Jim, does the HotTop's stock mainboard override any fan setting made by Artisan/HTC during Eject?


No, I don't think so.

I think all of the smarts for fan control resides in the Hottop control board. As best I can tell, the main board simply turns on the fan when it is sent 0V, and turns off the fan when it is sent 5V.

Fan speed, soft starts, etc. are handled by the PWM signals coming from the control board.

Jim
rgrosz78

Quote

Barrie wrote:
I have installed the latest sketch, and that made no difference.

Here is a crazy idea - try using the older version of the artisan sketch to see if you can control the fan. You will have to change the serial command to control the fan back toIO3,{} instead of DCFAN,{}
Life is too short to drink bad wine ... or bad coffee!
JackH
Barrie, What kind of computer are you connecting with?
And - have you tried another USB port?
You may have tried this already.
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
snwcmpr
Which bring to mind trying a different USB cable. Not all USB cables are the same, some will not work with my camera to PC connection, but they have the right fittings.

Ken in NC
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
Barrie

Quote

rgrosz78 wrote:

Quote

Barrie wrote:
I have installed the latest sketch, and that made no difference.

Here is a crazy idea - try using the older version of the artisan sketch to see if you can control the fan. You will have to change the serial command to control the fan back toIO3,{} instead of DCFAN,{}

I may be describing two problems.
1. After Eject, when the HT takes over, the fan is on, but its speed increases very noticeably if I disconnect the USB cable.
2. Using an Acer notebook with Windows 7 installed, and the best of my USB cables in the socket giving the most consistently-reliable performance, the Artisan control is fine, with one exception - fan speed changes as expected, except that the total range is narrowed so that, when at the 100% setting in Artisan, it is not as fast as when the USB cable is disconnected and the fan is being run from the HT control board. It does not make sense to me that this is a USB cable problem at a time when nothing is supposed to be going from Artisan and/or aArduino to HT (1. above)?
Does no one else have this problem? If that is the case, then I obviously need to rethink the local setup, which seems to be what everyone is saying?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
JackH
Usually the TC4C gets it's power from the USB port unless you have the external power adapter plugged in. With the HTC board added, it may get it's power from another source, I am not sure.

Laptops and notebooks usually have very wimpy output power to the USB ports.
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
JimG
Barrie -

I need to ask one more stalling-type question: what happens if Artisan is not running, but the USB cable is left plugged in? This condition would have power going to the TC4C via USB, but no active serial comm's.

I will try and replicate the behavior on my own B-2K this weekend. The reasons this is so befuddling to me are:

1. When EJECT has been pressed, all fan control and heat control signals received by the HTC from the TC4C are ignored.

2. This in turn means that all fan and heater control signals received by the TC4C from Artisan are ignored.

3. Irrespective of whether the TC4C is powered on, the control of the fan while in EJECT mode is a private conversation between the HTC and the Hottop control board. The Hottop control board talks, and the HTC listens and does what it is told (i.e. turn the fan on or turn it off).

4. If there were a breakdown in this private conversation, it should show up with USB plugged in as well as with USB unplugged.

5. The HTC board is powered by the Hottop itself, not by the USB cable, regardless of whether the USB cable is plugged in. Only the TC4C is powered by USB.

Clearly there is something going on that falls outside the simple logic built into the firmware on the HTC, and I will try and reproduce it in my shop.

Jim
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