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renatoa
03/29/2024 1:55 AM
jbeske, Soubriquet and kaicee18, morning

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03/25/2024 12:38 PM
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the "NAKED" portafilter
ginny
Hi all in espresso/coffee land.

We have a new member who is very interested in the "naked" portafilter.

I know that we have many members who use these things and and asking for your input. Les I know you make them for folks as well.

thanks,

ginny

s:8s:8B)GrinGrin
 
carlosm
Hi all... I'm the new guy on the block that Ginny referred to. I have an old Barista "Proteo" (Starbucks) that's about 10 yrs old. I'm trying to tune it up and improve my shot. I never liked the pressurized PF and had read about "naked" versions. So, yesterday I stripped mine! I cut the bottom off and turned it into a bottomless PF. Now i'm experimenting. I've pulled 4 doubles (2oz) since modifying it. Results have ranged from ok to terrible. Observing the extraction is fun. A couple of times, the coffee was 'spraying' out in many directions, making quite a mess. Two times a nice 'thick syruppy' flow from the center formed, once was about 18 sec from start to 2oz and the other time it was faster and filled 2oz in about 12 sec.

I'm wondering how big is the variable of tamper and tamp pressure. I've got a tamper that i bought yrs ago at *$ but it's a couple of mm smaller than the inside of the filter basket so the perimeter doest get included in the tamp. This tamper also has a convex shape to it, leaving a small 'well' in the center of the puck. I've also just used my shot glass as a tamper since it's the perfect size (slightly larger) and flat bottomed.

Could the spraying and fast extraction be largely due to my tamping technique?

I'm searching for the perfect 25 second slow pull...any help appreciated!


thanks.... ~carlos
 
jonathan
Carlos, I use a Silvia which is quite sensitive to tamp technique. I'm not sure how much care your machine needs on that front, but a bigger issue might be your grinder and the freshness of the beans. Grind consistency is crucial (much more than tamp technique) for good espresso. If you don't have a good grinder it could be difficult to get consistently good espresso. Likewise, if your beans aren't fresh (less than 2 weeks old) that can affect things poorly as well. It seems like you might be in the right direction with the beans since you're at this site, but I didn't want to assume.

What are you doing on the grinder and fresh beans front?

 
jimoncaffeine
Carlos,

First, welcome to the group!

The below is only my opinion so ignore any or all as you like. :)

Jonathan is absolutely correct. Now that the portafilter is no longer pressurized tamper, tamping technique and grind consistency is much more important.

In my opinion the following items are needed to produce consistent pulls:

1. A good grinder.
2. A tamper that fits.
3. A good grinder.
4. Good tamping technique.
5. A good grinder.


(Did I mention a good grinder is a good idea? ;) )

Grinders:
I have introduced several local people to the espresso making process. All of them have completely ignored the "a good grinder" statements and bought cheap grinders. Adjusted the grind, Tamped and pulled. Been unhappy with the results so they changed tampers. Adjusted the grind, Tamped and pulled. Been unhappy with the results so they changed packing techniques. Adjusted the grind, Tamped and pulled. Been unhappy with the results so they changed tamping techniques. Adjusted the grind, Tamped and pulled. Been unhappy with the results. Finally listened to my diatribe on grinders and bought a decent grinder. Tamped and pulled. Were pretty happy with the results. Slightly adjusted the grind and slightly modified tamping techniques and pulled. Consistent 20-30 second pulls with good crema and the frustration ends.

My point in all of this is: If you do *not* have a consistent grind it will work against you and you will make constant adjustments trying to correct something you have no control over.

What is a "good" grinder:
The cheapest electric grinder (new) that I have had good luck with and used for about 16 years is a Gaggia MDF. They run about $175 when on sale. I bought one new almost 20 years ago and it is still going strong at a friend?s house and producing good consistent ground coffee.

The cheapest grinder that I have had good luck with is: is a Zassenaus (sp?) manual hand crank grinder. I've bought 3 of them so far from thrift stores for under $7 each.

I've found used Gaggia MDFs on craig's list for as low as $20. Currently I use a pair of Rossi RR45's (one for decaf and one for regular) don't look them up as they will scare you off at this point in your espresso life cycle. (They are large... Twice as large as your espresso machine.) I bought them used ($15 and $75) off of Craig's list and a garage sale. If you find an unknown grinder at a thrift store and it's cheap enough to risk buying ($5 to $10 is the most I would risk) a good rule of thumb is: how much does it weigh... It should be heavy like the weight of a car's starter motor (about 5 to 10 lbs).

- A good grind - should be like very very find sand. Kind of like the sand common around the openings of ant hills... When you rub it between your fingers it should just have a slight amount of grit and not so powdery that it completely fills in your finger print patterns but almost. Adjust up or down from there based on extraction times.

Tampers and Tamping:
It's far easier if you find one that fits as close as possible to the inside diameter. You can make one (there's an article I wrote on here somewhere where I cover making a tamper out of pvc materials but the one I made is for a larger basket than you have) or if your shot glass is sturdy and relatively flat, you can use that as well.

General rules of thumb for tamping: 15 to 30 lbs for the main tamp and then finish with about a 5lb tamp while turning the tamper. The purpose of the second lighter tamp is to 'polish' the top of the puck so that when the water first hits it, it doesn't absorb immediately but rolls out across the surface. You can get out your bathroom scale and tamp on it to get a rough idea of the pressures involved. You might want to give it a good scrub first... And maybe not while dinner guests are watching... :) Once you get the hang of it you never forget.

Coffee amount:
Stay consistent. This will affect extraction times up to about 10 seconds. General rule of thumb: put enough coffee in the basket so that when tamped the level of the coffee is just below the filter screen in the group head where the water will come out.

Finally on to your question: ' How big a variable are tamper and tamp pressure on the speed of a pull?'

The reason I covered all of the above is to get us on common ground (no coffee pun intended but enjoyed none the less) when I tell you: given a good, constant grind and a reasonable tamper that fits, I see about a 3 to 7 second difference in pull times. (7 if I'm on it way above 30lbs and 3 if I'm less than 15lbs). I use it to 'fine-tune' my times. The fresher the beans it seems the more tamping pressure needed.

Taste:
Assuming that you have a clean machine, espresso that tastes good requires:
1. Good water.
2. Good beans.
3. Proper grind and amount of coffee.
4. Proper tamp.
5. Roughly 195 degrees F temp.
6. 8 to 9 Barr of extraction pressure.

(Your machine will likely put you in the ballpark for the last two without you having to do anything other than let it warm up for 5 to 10 minutes.)

Your machine does not have a 3 way valve so you cannot back flush. Back flushing is a technique where you put a 'blind-basket' with a detergent in it in place of your regular basket and flush the coffee group internally. You can however, pull the filter screen off the bottom and clean everything liberally. Be sure to rinse it off well before putting it back together.

Pressurized portafilters
I had a S-bucks Barista machine for a couple of years. It convinced me that I did not like espresso any more. In reality it was the pressurized porta-filter that was ruining it for me! As you know by now, there's quite a bit of stuff in that mechanism that can't be reached by cleaning and is plastic. Plastic is especially sensitive to oily substances... Coffee oils invade the plastic, become rancid after a month or so and affect the taste of the espresso. (Hence the importance of keeping anything that touches the coffee clean mentioned in the list above.)

I switched to a used Gaggia machine that did not have the pressurized portafilter. At the time I didn't realize what had ruined the taste of the espresso on the S-bucks machine. Since then I've moved on to "ridiculous" espresso gear from a normal home kitchen view point but it's now a hobby for me as well.

Now I know that this is an awful lot of info to swallow but consider this: Now that you are already using a non-pressurized portafilter and are learning about grind, tamping and technique: you will be able to apply it to any other machine you use in the future and it absolutely will make a positive difference on the taste of your drinks.

Good luck! :)

Jim
 
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