topbanner.gif
Login
Username

Password




Not a member yet?
Click here to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

10/19/2021 6:22 AM
Welcome tarunk!

10/17/2021 12:40 PM
Ploni and nader fouad, Welcome!

10/15/2021 2:19 AM
merlot85, maycondelpiero and hoeltz, Welcome !

10/14/2021 10:06 AM
Thanks for the addition to the group. Seriously considering building a drum roaster along the lines of oldgrumpus's. Love the design and craftsmanship.

10/14/2021 4:00 AM
Morning, ar3mia ! and... coffee drink

In Memory Of Ginny
Donations

Latest Donations
JackH - 25.00
snwcmpr - 10.00
Anonymous - 2.00
Anonymous - 5.00
Anonymous - 5.00
Users Online
Guests Online: 18

Members Online: 1
CharcoalRoaster

Total Members: 7,363
Newest Member: tarunk

View Thread

Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Print Thread
There is life after the HTC/TC4C!
Barrie
After many weeks of misperforming, my HTC/TC4C combo stopped sending signals to the HT fan altogether, so I have just gone back to using the HT in its originally intended manner - manual control. I have only done a couple of roasts this way so far and am still in the process of de-programming myself. ThumbsUp It has been quite refreshing and noticeably uncomplicated. Will have to think more about the whole process but, assuming I eventually get the Artisan-based log/control arrangement up and running again, this will probably have been a salutary experience. First, I have to find out what the heck is going on with the naughty combo boards.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
ciel-007

Quote

Barrie wrote:

... I have just gone back to using the HT in its originally intended manner - manual control... It has been quite refreshing and noticeably uncomplicated...



Barrie, sorry to hear about your difficulties with HTC/TC4C combo.

I am getting amazing espresso results by roasting in full manual mode, with a little help from a BMT probe, and a very simple profile (posted earlier):
http://homeroaste...post_42479

The profile involves a high bean loading temperature, roasting at maximum power to reach 1C quickly, and then using the fan to stretch development time out to 4 minutes.

If you have a chance to try this simple profile, I would very much like to hear your analysis of how its resulting roast compares with those from more complex profiles that you tested while at the helm of the HTC/TC4C combo.

Ciel
Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK´┐ŻNIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
Barrie
Ciel, that describes pretty accurately what I was doing with Artisan, and I took careful note of the OEM probe temperatures at each stage so I can use that for the manual control. I just hope I can find the solution to my combo-board problem.
I previously used a bean-chute probe and could go back to it, but that seems ridiculous with two high-quality probes through the back wall. Right now I am enjoying the simplicity of what I am doing, but doubt it will last.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
turtle
I set my TC4C+HTC so that I could use it or my Amprobe TMD-56 as the interface between artisan and the 2 wall mounted probes. I put the HTC inside and the TC4C outside so I have 2 k-type jacks on the back that I can hook either up to the hottop. Both have USB out, the difference is the Amprobe passes on the temp from both probes but all running of artisan and the hottop are manual whereas the TC4C+HTC is all controlled from the keyboard.

i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u414/turtle-web/food/coffee/Hottop/mods/setup1_zpse54e1e6f.jpg

i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u414/turtle-web/food/coffee/Hottop/mods/HTC_mounted1_zps6fda25b4.jpg
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum
Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
Barrie

Quote

turtle wrote:

I set my TC4C+HTC so that I could use it or my Amprobe TMD-56 as the interface between artisan and the 2 wall mounted probes. I put the HTC inside and the TC4C outside so I have 2 k-type jacks on the back that I can hook either up to the hottop. Both have USB out, the difference is the Amprobe passes on the temp from both probes but all running of artisan and the hottop are manual whereas the TC4C+HTC is all controlled from the keyboard.


Seems like a good idea but, right now, I cannot send signals from the combo board to the fan. I am loathe to leave it like that and set up anything different just for logging.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
smico
I already have spare TC4 and now I have to buy spare HTC.
I am sorry to hear about your troubles Barrie.
Hottop B2 + HTC, Cremina 83, OE Pharos, Brewtus IIIR, Baratza Vario
turtle

Quote

Barrie wrote:

[quote]
Seems like a good idea but, right now, I cannot send signals from the combo board to the fan. I am loathe to leave it like that and set up anything different just for logging.


Can you send signals successfully using arduino IDE serial monitor?

I had a lot of problems when I started using artisan but all were pilot error.

fire up your hottop on one of the saved profiles.
start the arduino serial monitor
WAIT until the preheat is past and the HT calls for beans
set the heat and fan on the hottop control panel to full on (100%)
send a 50% fan signal through the serial monitor (IO3,50)

If the fan does not fire up try DCFAN,50
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum
Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
Barrie

Quote

turtle wrote:

Can you send signals successfully using arduino IDE serial monitor?

I had a lot of problems when I started using artisan but all were pilot error.

fire up your hottop on one of the saved profiles.
start the arduino serial monitor
WAIT until the preheat is past and the HT calls for beans
set the heat and fan on the hottop control panel to full on (100%)
send a 50% fan signal through the serial monitor (IO3,50)

If the fan does not fire up try DCFAN,50

I have been roasting successfully, with heater and fan responding. I used the IO3,50 command until JimG said to go to DCFAN,50 - both successfully. The only problem I had experienced (and which Jim had not been able to troubleshoot) was that the fan did not seem to be running fully until the USB cable was disconnected. Now, it is not working at all. You have reminded me that I should check the fan commands just to be sure. Thank you for that.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
Barrie
I just re-read this and, of course, the Config/Events settings in Artisan do not include the '50'. My config is set up correctly, and in the log file and graph, Artisan shows it has sent the commands to the fan. Something happens on the way, between Artisan and the HT control board. aArduino sketch or, more likely, in the combo boards?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
JimG
If you are interested in further troubleshooting, sending commands directly to the TC4C, i.e. without Artisan running, is not difficult. It requires a simple terminal program (Brey's Terminal or the Arduino IDE) and typing in a few commands.

If direct communication with the TC4C is confirmed, but still does not result in the fan running, then the suspects would be:

1. Failed output port on the ATmega328P chip on the TC4C board. This is possible, but somewhat unlikely if the TC4C is otherwise working.
2. Failed optoisolator chip on the HTC board. The same 2-channel opto chip is used to process the heater and fan signals, but it is possible that only one of the channels is bad.
3. The fan is not set at 100% on the Hottop B control panel. The HTC+TC4C will not permit the fan to run at any time that the OEM control board has turned off the fan.

Jim
Barrie

Quote

JimG wrote:

If you are interested in further troubleshooting, sending commands directly to the TC4C, i.e. without Artisan running, is not difficult. It requires a simple terminal program (Brey's Terminal or the Arduino IDE) and typing in a few commands.

If direct communication with the TC4C is confirmed, but still does not result in the fan running, then the suspects would be:

1. Failed output port on the ATmega328P chip on the TC4C board. This is possible, but somewhat unlikely if the TC4C is otherwise working.
2. Failed optoisolator chip on the HTC board. The same 2-channel opto chip is used to process the heater and fan signals, but it is possible that only one of the channels is bad.
3. The fan is not set at 100% on the Hottop B control panel. The HTC+TC4C will not permit the fan to run at any time that the OEM control board has turned off the fan.

Jim

Thanks for your expert input, Jim. There does seem to be communication with the TC4C because the heater is responding as programmed. I can certainly test it further but this whole thing is a couple of notches outside my ability to follow these instructions. How does one send a command to the TC4C via Arduino, for instance?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
turtle
I hope Jim does not mind me jumping in here but this is still fresh on my mind (indelibly burned into it I am afraid)

Download and install the Arduino software

http://arduino.cc...n/software

Start Arduino IDE and from the menu select Tools > Serial Monitor.

i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u414/turtle-web/food/coffee/Hottop/Artisan/serial_monitor_zpsb2de31cb.gif

If you have Arduino 3.0 on the HT4C chip you need to set the serial port to 115200 baud. If you are running 2.0 you need to connect using 19.2k (setting is from the drop down at the bottom of the serial monitor or can be set in the IDE software from the serial port option, either way the serial monitor window should say one of these two baud rates depending on which version of the software is installed on your controller)

Start your hottop with everything plugged in and the Arduino software running. Select a Hottop profile other than the auto one (add 1-3... I use ADD3 as it is the last one and the easiest for me to remember to start). The Hottop will run under its own programing until it comes out of preheat mode.

Once the hottop comes out of preheat make sure that the burner and heater are BOTH set to 100% on the Hottop control panel (yes heater and fan BOTH on full)

IN the serial monitor enter chan,1200 (coma between chan and 1200). This will set 1200 channels to work with

In the monitor enter either DCFAN,100 or IO3,100 (DCFAN works with 3.0 and IO3 works with 2.0). This will turn the fan on to 100%

i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u414/turtle-web/food/coffee/Hottop/Artisan/SM_OI3-100_zps0afb27eb.gif

Sending OT1,50 will set the heater to 50% and cause the light on the TC4C to blink.

If all of this works and you can control the heater and fan then the problem is in your Artisan settings.

what I did once I got it all talking was to run through an entire cycle on the Hottop program (ADD3) making sure that the burner AND fan were both kept at 100%, then saved the ADD3 with all set wide open (for the next time). I started the ADD3 program with max time and max shut down temp which gives me more than enough time to do all roasts I have tried. You need to have one of your Hottop profiles set wide open (max time, max bean temp, max heater, max fan). THEN you can raise and lower the heat and fan from Artisan (or another program)
Edited by turtle on 07/03/2014 7:11 PM
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum
Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
Barrie
Thank you so much for this, Turtle. Just what I need. I will report back here once I have tried this. The section in which you describe how ti turn on the fan from Arduino is exactly what I needed, and I think that will be within my limited capabiliies. woohoo
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
Barrie
After using Artisan control of the HT here successfully since some time last year, and then finding that the fan wasn't working as it should while under Artisan control, the (simple) solution is to hand. I don't know whether to be embarrassed or pleased. Both, I guess. Grin. I owe JimG an apology for leading him on a wild goose chase. More of that below.

When I "installed" the latest aArduino firmware, I had assumed that all was well when it compiled/verified successfully, and changed the Artisan command to use DCFAN for the fan. With the help of JimG's troubleshooting suggestion above, and Turtle's reminder as to how to send serial commands from Arduino, it turned out that the HT was not responding to DCFAN commands, but would recognize IO3!!

I had made two important errors:
1. I thought I had successfully installed the latest sketch when I had not.
2. When I thought the fan was not responding fully under Artisan control, it was in fact not working at all.


Now I need to remind myself where to find the aArtisan update and all should be well. I am not sure what the lesson is here, other to check and then recheck. If you are as dumb as me it might be a good idea to check again.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
MaKoMo
There is an issue with the Arduino software. If the compile/upload fails, it is not completely obvious, but only indicated by some error message with a red line in a very small type. This can for example happy if the wrong target device was selected (eg. Nano instead of Uno). Happened to me several times doing my other Arduino experiments.

Marko
Barrie

Quote

MaKoMo wrote:

There is an issue with the Arduino software. If the compile/upload fails, it is not completely obvious, but only indicated by some error message with a red line in a very small type. This can for example happy if the wrong target device was selected (eg. Nano instead of Uno). Happened to me several times doing my other Arduino experiments.

Marko

Thanks for the warning, Marko. At the moment, I am having difficulty identifying which version of the sketch is installed, other than by seeing which fan command it recognizes.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
Barrie
I have discovered what this idiot-boy did!
When installing the latest sketch, I followed JackH's excellent guide, or so I thought. Downloaded the new aArtisan file, unzipped it in a desktop folder, copied the library files to the Arduino folder in Program files, and opened Arduino. There is a stage there where one then goes to File>Open to install the sketch. What I did not recognize was that I was looking at the previous sketch version files, and re-installed them. When I had first installed the sketch it found the correct files at this stage, so carelessly assumed that the same had happened, and I was looking at the new ones. Once I did "due diligence," and sought out the desktop folder with the newly unzipped files in File>Open, and installed from there, all was well.
So little time, and so much to learn. greenman
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
JimG

Quote

turtle wrote:

I hope Jim does not mind me jumping in here....


Mind??? Not a chance in a million!

Jim
JimG
Barrie -

I am really glad we found an explanation for the behavior of your fan, because I was really scratching my head trying to figure out what was going on. I was still holding the gremlins theory in reserve on this, but was getting very close to launching it ;-)

I apologize because I should have realized right away that a version mismatch of aArtisan could be in play. The DCFAN command is not supported by the older verisions of aArtisan, but the IO3 command is supported by both new and old versions.

(As a reminder, though, Hottop users should always use the DCFAN command, even though IO3 continues to function in aArtisan 3.0).

Jim
Barrie
Thanks for the kind comment, Jim, lacking in deserved adjectives. You are remarkably tolerant - at least, outwardly.
Here is what I am now experiencing, including with two back-to-back roasts this morning. Incidentally, I am now observing the fan itself, as opposed to the hand test. thumbdown

1. As one would now expect, all responses during a roast are as programmed.
2. At the end of the first roast, the HT ejects the beans as expected, and the fan is on full blast until the cooling tray rotor stops. At that point the HT turns off. So far, so good.
3. Because I use a text-to-voice routine in my Artisan 'alarms,' and this will not work in a second roast unless I restart Artisan, I exit from it and restart. The USB cable is connected all this time.
4. I restart the HT and, still hot from the first roast, it goes into its COOL phase, but the fan is not on.
5. I detach the USB cable and the fan comes on as it should.
6. With the USB cable detached, the HT reaches 163F. and goes to full heat as expected, with fan off. The red LED comes on.
7. Artisan is still open. The USB cable is attached, and the red LED goes off.
8. I click on ON in Artisan and everything proceeds as expected, with PH continuing, LED on, and full heat applied.

I did not cover myself with glory with my previous problem description, Jim, but I think this one is accurate.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
Jump to Forum:

Similar Threads

Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Using TC4C with Artisan Dataloggers/Controllers/Rate of Rise Meters 18 02/14/2019 5:39 PM
Looking for TC4C board Dataloggers/Controllers/Rate of Rise Meters 124 07/17/2018 10:32 AM
TC4C with J Type Floating Data Dataloggers/Controllers/Rate of Rise Meters 20 01/31/2018 2:16 AM
Reformat TC4C with current software Dataloggers/Controllers/Rate of Rise Meters 11 01/06/2018 9:08 PM
HTC+TC4C and 8828 compatibility. Dataloggers/Controllers/Rate of Rise Meters 4 11/12/2017 11:01 PM
Homeroasters Association Logo, and all Content, Images, and Icons © 2005-2016 Homeroasters Association - Logos are the property of their respective owners.
Powered by PHP-Fusion Copyright © 2021 PHP-Fusion Inc
Released as free software without warranties under GNU Affero GPL v3
Designed with by NetriX