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Quick Mill QM 67 or Rocket Cellini V3 Premium Plus ?
Army Coffee
I can get either one of these Espresso Machines for the same price. One is a Dual Boiler and one is a Heat Exchange. I can get either one for a little over 1600 dollars. Which one???
NEC ASPERA TERRENT

North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67
 
turtle
I've always used a heat exchanger machine but if I could have bought a dual boiler for the same $$$... I would not be doing the flush and flash before each pull that goes along with a heat exchanger.

Go for the dual boiler. Both companies make a top shelf product.
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum
Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
 
Army Coffee
Thanks Mick!

Think that is definitely the way I am leaning. To make matters worse, the Rocket is now 100 buck cheaper. I find it all rather silly considering the amount of money I am talking here, but 100 bucks is a lot of Green Beans!!!

Biggest negative I have heard about the QM67 is the steam pressure. Not a big milk user, but I guess it is something.

You are right though, both companies have a solid reputation. Can't go wrong with either. Still believe I will have to do a flush with the DB based on the E61 Brew Head heating up, but I could be wrong...

Your the first person to comment on a HX Model. They are both definitely First Class!!!
NEC ASPERA TERRENT

North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67
 
boar_d_laze
I've got a lot of experience with DBs, and have been using HXs for decades in my home; including the machine I'm currently using.

Assuming you dial in each new coffee for temp; and that you change coffees now and then (as opposed to really frequently or never) neither one type ends up more convenient than the other.

Personally, I don't regard managing temping by cooling flush as onerous, but opinions vary. It seems to me that most people who prefer DBs over HXs either like them for the emotional security a digital readout provides, or never really learned to dial in temp in the first place and mistakenly believe that they can set the PID to some given temperature which will always be right.

Another way of saying "emotional security" is "user comfort," and that shouldn't be underrated. But there is no magic temperature. The differences between individual machines is more important than the differences between the DB and HX systems.

The QM 67, like the Expobar Brewtus, is a "bottom of the line," compact, prosumer. E61 semiautomatic, DB.

Steaming and production capacities are limited by the size of tank and boiler; time to dial in and recovery are long because there's no HX between tank and boiler; ergonomics -- especially as they apply to a lever operated E61 group -- are compromised by both machines' narrow chassis.

The Rocket Cellini V3 is a better steamer, will handle entertaining duties better, is 2" wider and -- in my opinion -- is more pleasant to use.

If those qualities are important to you in a DB, you have to spend a great deal more money than the price of a QM 67. For instance, the two higher end DBs in the QM lineup are the Veterano 2B and (brand new on the market) Lucca M58.

BTW, your Vario is the rock-bottom minimum for a grinder to accompany any of the machines we're talking about. Once you hit a certain level of machine competence -- which starts ar around $1300 for a compact prosumer HX or a BDB -- the quality in the cup will be controlled by the quality of the grinder.

Hope this helps,
Rich
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
turtle
I am by no means an "authority" on anything seeing as I purchased my espresso machine based mainly on...... physical size (Livia 90-Auto)

Sure I would have rather had a dual boiler E61 machine but my "needs work" Pasquini was imposable to pass up. http://coffeegeek...ods/638923
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum
Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
 
Army Coffee
Thanks Rich.

Some really good points to consider. All I read about the Vario made me believe it was better than the "Minimum". I guess I will find out when I finally decide. One area that has me most concerned has to do with availability of parts. Assuming I will have this Espresso Machine for the long haul, Rocket seems to have the edge on repair parts availability.

I learned the hard lesson with my Roaster when my Gene Caf? died. Love my Hottop and twice the service and support had me up and operating in 3-days. Can't rule this out!
NEC ASPERA TERRENT

North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67
 
turtle

Quote

boar_d_laze wrote:
BTW, your Vario is the rock-bottom minimum for a grinder to accompany any of the machines we're talking about. Once you hit a certain level of machine competence -- which starts ar around $1300 for a compact prosumer HX or a BDB -- the quality in the cup will be controlled by the quality of the grinder.

Hope this helps,
Rich


A Vario would be a bear minimum grinder for espresso machines at that level. I would consider it an "interim" grinder for a great espresso set up.

I had a ceramic burr Verio-W for quite a while and was happy with it but the difference in taste between grinds in my Super Jolly and Vario-W were noticeable. This would not be the case if you did not have a "comparable" to grind against.

I have a Preciso but I do not grind espresso in mine (pour over and press, which it excels at and why it is still around today).

The reason my Vario-W stayed around so long is because it was more convenient than the Super Jolly (before I modified it)

Grinder Round UP "Before" (the SJ mods)

Vario-W (ceramic burr) - Preciso/Esatto - SJ (with manual dosser)

i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u414/turtle-web/food/coffee/grinders/grinders_9-26-2013_zps064e2dac.jpg

Grinder Round UP "today"

Forte (steel burr) - Preciso/Esatto - SJ (after "turtle mods")

i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u414/turtle-web/food/coffee/grinders/3-17-2014_grinders_zps3b26b14c.jpg
Edited by turtle on 12/25/2014 8:10 PM
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum
Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
 
Army Coffee
based on the photos, I see the road I am on and Momma may not be happy.

:-)

Drew
NEC ASPERA TERRENT

North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67
 
turtle

Quote

Army Coffee wrote:

based on the photos, I see the road I am on and Momma may not be happy.

:-)

Drew


It "helps" if Momma likes coffee as much as you do :)
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum
Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
 
Army Coffee

Quote

turtle wrote:


It "helps" if Momma likes coffee as much as you do :)


She is still mad about the fact that I ruined having coffee out since I started roasting!

:-)

Drew
NEC ASPERA TERRENT

North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67
 
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