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 KN-8828B-2K vs.KN-8828P-2K
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| RoastBeans |
Posted on 01/23/2015 9:41 AM
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 Newbie  Posts: 15 Joined: January 22, 2015 |
Hello all, Seeking a new roaster and had a question I can't seem to find a definite answer. On the HotTop website I've read the KN-8828B-2K has full manual functions and can store 3 profiles. The website says the KN-8828P-2K is partial manual control. My questions are: 1- What does partial manual control differ from full manual? 2- Other than being able to store 9 profiles on the KN-8828P-2K are there more features I will get out of the KN-8828P-2K. I'm wanting a full manual machine and was wondering will I be loosing this feature on the KN-8828P-2K. 3- Do these models have the ability to eject half the beans allowing me to have some roasted to City+ and the remaining to Full City? Thanks. Ryan |
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| ciel-007 |
Posted on 01/23/2015 10:17 AM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 651 Joined: April 03, 2012 |
Ryan, I would strongly encourage you to go with a new KN-8828B-2K or perhaps a used KN-8828B-2. From experience, I have found that the manual model provides better roasting control than a programmable model is capable of doing. Further, you can easily modify the Hottop to eject the beans for Melange Roasting. See Tryer Function and Partial Bean Dumps During Roasting at the following link: http://homeroaste...post_40019 Ciel Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK?NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
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| Randy G |
Posted on 01/23/2015 10:58 AM
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 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
KN-8828B-2K vs. KN-8828P-2K Which is Best for You? The "B" model offers more precise user control throughout the roast cycle. It allows adjustment of the fan speed in 25% increments from 0 to 100%, and the heating element in 10% increments from 0 to 100%. Both can be adjusted, up or down, in those increments at any time while the roast is progressing. The "B" can also be used in full manual mode each time. Here's how that works: - Start a roast with maximum time and maximum temperature as the programmed targets. - When the "ADD BEANS" signal sounds, don't add beans. - At that signal, immediately set the heat for 100% and the fan to 0%. Let it run that way for about three to five minutes and then hit eject. - When the cooling cycle ends you will be prompted to save the program. "SAVE" that it in one of the three memory areas (eject is NOT saved). - In the future just select that saved program and you have full control of the roast with the machine making no changes on its own. The "P" model only allows the target temperature to be modified during each segment. When the target is achieved the heating element is turned off by the control circuit. When the current temperature is below that segment's target temperature, the heating element is energized. So what you have is binary heat control (either on or off). Because each segment is just three minutes in length at the most, if you factor in a 30 to 60 second recovery time for the heating element to change state, you can see where this gives limited control, at least in comparison to the "B" control system. Many people get the "P" specifically because the "P" can be pre-programmed. They run the program they create and after the roast concludes they make modifications to it as necessary and save these changes. By fine tuning a program over time in that way a good profile can be achieved and used over and over. Many users like the ability to just watch the roast progress without making many changes, and possibly making no changes at all when they find a program they like, just allowing the program to run its course. The "P" is preferred for folks who, once they get a "program" that is pretty good, just want to push a button and get a roast that is pretty close. The "B" is recommended for those who want to closely monitor the roast and make adjustments to get precise results each time. These "real time" changes on the "B" can help compensate for ambient temperature changes throughout the seasons, changes in bean density or bean moisture level, bean mass being roasted, or even voltage changes over time (such as in rural areas where the voltage can change). If you think of the "B" as a five speed manual transmission and the "P" as a four speed automatic transmission car, you sort of get the idea. The difference between the two models can be studied on our website in more detail (if you haven't seen those already): Hottop Coffee Roaster Models Compare Coffee Roaster Models Which Model Is Best for You? For more details on how each model works I suggest that you download the owners manual from our website as each model's operation is documented in detail: KN-8828B-2K and KN-8828P-2K Owners Manual in PDF format And please do not hesitate to e-mail us ([email protected]) with any further questions you might have before purchasing a roaster. NOTE: I did not bother inserting the links in this response, but they are on the main page of our website |
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| RoastBeans |
Posted on 01/23/2015 11:53 AM
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Newbie Posts: 15 Joined: January 22, 2015 |
ciel-007: Thanks for this information and the link Partial Bean Dumps During Roasting and your suggestion on the model KN-8828B-2K. Randy G: Thanks for the break down of these two models. This describes it much more clear, "If you think of the "B" as a five speed manual transmission and the "P" as a four speed automatic transmission car, you sort of get the idea." |
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| ciel-007 |
Posted on 01/23/2015 1:36 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 651 Joined: April 03, 2012 |
Ryan, in my experience, one of the design flaws in the model P Hottops is the constraint on high temperature settings during the early stages of the roast. My most flavorful pulls always emerge from roasts featuring high load temperatures. The B models will allow you to load the greens at a much higher chamber temperature than would the P models. Ciel Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK?NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
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| Randy G |
Posted on 01/23/2015 2:21 PM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
If you can deal with the time loss in an early stage or two, to get faster heat rise you can program less time in an early segment (even :01) to get to the next segment sooner and "bank" what time is available for later up to the maximum allowed. So long as you never reach the target temperature of a segment, it is the same as running the "B" at 100% heat. Not defending the "P" as personally, I never liked it, but it has its place with some users.
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| BarryR |
Posted on 01/23/2015 6:57 PM
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1/4 Pounder  Posts: 90 Joined: April 25, 2011 |
I agree with above. Unless you've determined from Randy's description that a "P" absolutely what you want, then the answer is "B" (in other words, B is the default choice, and for most people, the best choice). If you want automation in the future and are handy with tools, the TC4C modification (there are many threads on this) will allow you to interface the roaster with a PC and get very precise control and temperature data / graphs. The mod would cost a little under $200 (assuming you have a PC to use with it)and the P cost $150 more than the B, so, for the price you're way ahead with the B + Mod. The modification does take a little engineering / tool using savvy, drilling, and the good part of the day to do it. Barry
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| RoastBeans |
Posted on 01/23/2015 7:05 PM
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Newbie Posts: 15 Joined: January 22, 2015 |
The B model sounds good. I was wanting a roaster similar to the Quest 3's functionality, but with safety features and 1-year warranty like the HotTop. I couldn't find information about bean temps. Is there a bean probe option that could be added without voiding the manufactures warranty? |
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| ciel-007 |
Posted on 01/23/2015 9:52 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 651 Joined: April 03, 2012 |
Quote Ryan11 wrote: ... Is there a bean probe option that could be added without voiding the manufactures warranty? ... Randy's original method of adding a "Temporary BMT Probe" would surely not affect the manufacturer's warranty. http://homeroaste...post_37582 However, I'm not sure about Hottop's warranty policy when it comes to more advanced mods , including such things as a "Permanent BMT Probe". http://homeroaste...post_37585 Perhap's Randy could post a few words about Hottop's warranty policy as it pertains to modified roasters. Ciel Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK?NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
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| Randy G |
Posted on 01/24/2015 10:23 AM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
Hottop Warranty. Beyond that, it would be up to our engineer's discretion as to whether a modification caused a problem or made servicing difficult as to whether repairs were covered by the warranty. Even the temperature probe through the bean loading chute cover can cause warranty problems. For example, the probe can protrude too far, get caught by a drum support arm, stop the drum, and cause damage to the drum motor's reductions gears. But Hottop is no different from other companies in that we do not advise anyone to make any modifications nor use any other parts other than as supplied by us. There is liability to consider. |
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| RoastBeans |
Posted on 01/24/2015 10:26 AM
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Newbie Posts: 15 Joined: January 22, 2015 |
Quote Randy G wrote: Hottop Warranty. Beyond that, it would be up to our engineer's discretion as to whether a modification caused a problem or made servicing difficult as to whether repairs were covered by the warranty. Even the temperature probe through the bean loading chute cover can cause warranty problems. For example, the probe can protrude too far, get caught by a drum support arm, stop the drum, and cause damage to the drum motor's reductions gears. But Hottop is no different from other companies in that we do not advise anyone to make any modifications nor use any other parts other than as supplied by us. There is liability to consider. Randy, Great information. Do you see HotTop adding a bean probe in future models to come? |
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| Randy G |
Posted on 01/24/2015 12:23 PM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
Yes, and more besides, and if the factory can stick to their schedule, relatively soon. But I have said that before (based on info from the factory) and been wrong.
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| ciel-007 |
Posted on 01/30/2015 4:40 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 651 Joined: April 03, 2012 |
Quote Perhaps someone might explain what Hottop was thinking when the company decided to do away with a perfectly fine "button style" temperature sensor. Replacing the button sensor with a fancy K probe located in such a poor location provides little (if any) added functionality, and seems to have been a questionable allocation of limited R&D resources. Might it not have been a wiser business decision for Hottop to leave the button sensor alone, and proceed directly to add a separate K probe to monitor bean mass temperature years ago? After all, it was years ago that Randy's seminal contributions pointed the way in that direction. Ciel Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK?NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
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