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Super-Automatic vs Traditional Espresso
JETROASTER
As this popped up in another thread, I thought it deserved it's own thread.
Cheers, Scott
JETROASTER
I have a couple Miele Super-autos. I dig the convenience. Getting them dialed in takes some hit and miss, but provides solid day to day performance.

When I get the urge to be a purist, I reach for the Ibrik.
Cheers, Scott
ciel-007
Super-Automatics vs Traditional Espresso Machines?

Scott, it was good of you to create a special thread arising from a post appearing elsewhere on this site. Replies to this stimulating question should be of interest to a number of HRO members.

Quote

ciel-007 wrote:

Quote

ginny wrote:

... my Super Auto CM 5K and ...
... my Grimac Royal Falcon La Valentina...


Ginny, some members might find it hard to believe that espressos pulled from the Miele Super Auto CM5000 could go head to head with those from the Grimac Royal Falcon La Valentina. Based on your personal experiences, how would you describe the differences in the nature of the "cafe crema" you pull from each machine?

Ciel

Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK´┐ŻNIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
JETROASTER
Thanks for shifting over. Good to keep the other thread on track.

I'll be interested to hear others experience.
It occurred to me that while I often use a very automatic brewer, my roasting is very manual. There is a fair amount of roasting automation discussed at HRO, from folks that might shun a super-auto brewer!
It's a mystery!!
Cheers, Scott
turtle
My espresso machine is a Pasquini Livia 90 full automatic.

I like the fact that I can dial in single and double shots and have the same consistent amount of water every time through the portafilter without having to "think"

I manually flush (HE machine so super heats if pulls are more than 3 minutes apart).

I manually pre-infuse

BUT....

I use the single or double dose button to create the shot.

Now with coffee roasting I am a full manual roaster.

I roast by time, temp but mostly sight, sound, and smell.

I do have the automation (computer hook up) but it is rare when I use it. Mostly I use a dual read meter and run the roaster manually based on my senses and what the probe says is going on AND a stop watch so that I do not run under or over what I should be.
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: Behmor 1600 +
Grinders: Modified Super Jolly - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
coffeeroastersclub
For about a year I have had the Saeco XSMALL Superauto. It has ceramic burrs. I love the darn thing. The americanos it makes are superb. The tank is a bit small, and so is the puck container, but heck that goes with the territory with the machine being small.

I just purchased a Gaggia Baby Class espresso machine. It is a well built machine and I am just getting used to it. It makes wonderful shots. The americanos it makes have darker crema, but head to head I actually like the Saeco superauto americanos better. Go figure. Maybe because I am used to them ... hsometimes when I make one from the superauto it is just plain awesome. ThumbsUp

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
ginny
Hi Ciel:

Great question that I will give you my experience on...

I have had 3 espresso machines over the years but when I got my:

la di Vittoria La Valentina/aka Grimac Royal Falcon I never looked back since it is a fantastic machine, it is built so well it will most likely last forever except for seals, it is manual and full auto with 4 buttons I can program - there is honestly nothing bad I have to say about this La Valentina. It pulls great shots.

I have had 4 Super Auto espresso machines over the years with the Solis 5K as my machine of choice for 10 years until it died last year and I replaced it with the Miele CM5000 Espresso Machine since the cost of a total refurb on the Solis 5K seemed like money down a drain with the advances in 10 years on the Super Automatic machines.

I will never look back with this CM 5K either it is fantastic and pulls wonderful cafe cremas...

All of that said I love them both and they both pull great shots and you must remember that I am the only one in my household of 3 that drinks real coffee.

Hence the machines are for my personal use only so I have dialed the Miele in for my specific use and if someone comes and wants an espresso it is pulled the same as I pull mine I will never change the setting unless I am cleaning the machine and it will get put right back where I want it.

Now I have gotten lazy in some respects over the last 10 years and I completely enjoy walking into the kitchen at 4AM, turning on the Miele CM 5K and within 4 minutes I have an incredible cafe crema with so much crema it is embarrassing.

Turning on the La Valentina/Royal Falcon I would need to wait 30 minutes minimum since it really needs to warm up well. I do not want to wait, period. So I use the La Val less and less all of the time.

The shots are equal on these machines Ciel. Sure there are mild differences with the pulls but my guess is that the average person would not be able to tell which machine I used for any given shot of the same coffee.

Americono's are wonderful as well from either machine which is what most of my guests have with few exception.

You have to remember that I do things differently. I roast by time, temp but mostly sight, sound, and smell as turtle and many others do but roast all of my beans for these two machines, yes all of my beans are used for cafe cremas/espresso. Sure I get some crappy shots but most are great and I enjoy the different tastes, the different mouthfeel from the variety I roast. I tend now to roast a lot of African but love to buy from Sweet Mariaĺs when they have some limited lots of interesting beans. I got an aged bean last year that was incredible but of course it was gone by the time I got back to order and that is half the fun of roasting.

The Super Automatic machine deserves more respect today. The idea that only a good manual espresso machine can make great shots is simply not true. Not all Super Autoĺs are created equal I admit. I had two before I spoke to Scott about his Miele and decided to buy one myself. The two others did not even compare to my old Solis 5K and for my money did not produce good shots.

Love my cafe cremas and love both of my machines.



ginny


roar
JETROASTER
Super-Automatics can be a bit bossy.
The CVA4070 has forced me to descale today. It was kind enough to give me a 49 serving warning, and that warning has run out.
Absolute refusal. No descale, no coffee.

I am currently descaling. Simple enough, select function...follow prompts.
Another feature of the CVA4070; it tracks servings. At about 6 years old, this machine has popped out 5636 servings...no issues.
....just a bit bossy.
Cheers, Scott
ginny
Scott,

very funny mine made me do that the other day but at least I got one double cafe crema before I had to do the cleaning.

yes, very bossy machines.

love my Miele, just love it...


ginny


beach
ciel-007

Quote

ginny wrote:


... The Super Automatic machine deserves more respect today. The idea that only a good manual espresso machine can make great shots is simply not true...



Great post Ginny - thanks for sharing your brewing experiences.

I'm impressed by the enthusiasm you've developed for the latest generation of Fully Automatic Espresso Machines. Might this fervor possibly lead you to take the next ultimate step? More specifically, can you imagine yourself embracing a Fully Automatic Coffee Roaster someday?

Ciel
Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK´┐ŻNIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
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