topbanner.gif
Login
Username

Password




Not a member yet?
Click here to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

04/16/2021 2:04 PM
SkipG welcome cup

04/16/2021 2:03 PM
meeuw2000 Welcome welcome cup

04/16/2021 8:29 AM
welcome cupfrankvw

04/13/2021 3:24 PM
Welcome DonnaReeves

04/13/2021 1:53 PM
Welcome to new member Ccelli Beans

Users Online
Guests Online: 12

Members Online: 0

Total Members: 7,159
Newest Member: meeuw2000
In Memory Of Ginny
Donations

Latest Donations
JackH - 25.00
snwcmpr - 10.00
Anonymous - 2.00
Anonymous - 5.00
Anonymous - 5.00

View Thread

Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Print Thread
Roast: comments / suggestions - solicited
turtle
I've been using my SF-1 electric for a few weeks now but for some reason my roasts are staying at 11 minutes or under in time.

This seems to be just a tad on the short side to me.

The coffee development seems good. Beans are a consistent color and roast level. Aroma is exceptional. Taste is about as good as I have ever done.

I only have a BT probe in the drum at the present time as the dial gauge looked "too cool" to replace it with a probe. I can put a probe in for ET (bought it then changed my mind). I am using an Amprobe TMD-56 which will interface with Artisan if a visual Artisan chart would be more helpful.

I have been using a manual roast log and recording temp and burner settings at minute intervals and recording start/end of dry, 1st and 2nd crack times/temps.

This is the minute interval blow by blow on today's roast if anyone has a suggestion on where I can/should stretch the roast.

1 lb Sweet Maria's Rwanda

I preheat the roaster using 50% burner so that I get a good stable temp of all the steel. Preheat takes about 12-15 minutes depending on outside temp. Once the BT probe reads 200 I ramp the burner up to 80% which is what I have been using as my baseline burner setting so far.

Readings are from the BT probe

Drop beans @ 250 - Burner 80%

1 min : 138 - lowest BT reading
2 min : 168
3 min : 207
4 min : 242
5 min : 272 - Burner lowered to 60%
6 min : 300
7 min : 327
8 min : 350
9 min : 371 - 9 min 30 sec start of 1st crack (385) - Burner to 50%
10 mn: 390 - 10 mn 15 sec start of 2nd crack (398) - Burner OFF
11 mn: 405 - Dumped beans

Thanks

.
Edited by turtle on 04/17/2015 12:38 PM
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: Behmor 1600 +
Grinders: Modified Super Jolly - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
HoldTheOnions
I'm not an expert, but for the most part looks pretty good to me except 1c to final temp seems a little short for my tastes. I have found stretching out to 2-2.5 minutes generally gives a more developed flavor for me on my setup. You might try lowering the temps even further in different ways and see how that compares.

Also, I have air roaster, which obviously is completely different, but I like to adjust to final temp about 10f before 1c. You could maybe try playing with the time of your adjustments too, it may slow things down a bit before you get to 1c, so you don't roll through 1c so quickly.

I'm sure better ideas to follow.
coffeeroastersclub
Just an observation and question: You mention 390 as start of 2nd crack? Is that a bean mass temp reading? If so something appears to be off; 2nd crack generally starts at bean mass temps of over 444.

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
HoldTheOnions

Quote

coffeeroastersclub wrote:

Just an observation and question: You mention 390 as start of 2nd crack? Is that a bean mass temp reading? If so something appears to be off; 2nd crack generally starts at bean mass temps of over 444.

Len


Are you saying in general or specifically for that machine?
turtle

Quote

coffeeroastersclub wrote:

Just an observation and question: You mention 390 as start of 2nd crack? Is that a bean mass temp reading? If so something appears to be off; 2nd crack generally starts at bean mass temps of over 444.

Len



2nd crack was well underway when I dumped the drum @ 405 BT 2nd crack started just short of 400

New k-type probe centered within the bean mass (got great positioning with only 1 hole in the roaster).

I've checked the probe in boiling water and it is spot on 212

Compared it against my thermopen and both agree on temp of what ever I am measuring with each one.

Dial gauge and probe read the same temp up until around 250 (where I drop the beans and temperatures separate).
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: Behmor 1600 +
Grinders: Modified Super Jolly - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
ginny
seems like second crack came very fast if first started at 390...

slow it down.

ginny

smoking
JackH
You can try increasing the amount you are roasting by 100g and see how long that takes.

It looks like the temperatures you are reporting seem OK if the probe is in the bean mass. About 9 Mins to 1C is what I get too.

Also, try lowering the temperature before 1C instead of at 1C.

You will have to experiment with the times to find what is best for your roaster.
Edited by JackH on 04/17/2015 4:00 PM
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
turtle

Quote

JackH wrote:

You can try increasing the amount you are roasting by 100g and see how long that takes.

It looks like the temperatures you are reporting seem OK if the probe is in the bean mass. About 9 Mins to 1C is what I get too.

Also, try lowering the temperature before 1C instead of at 1C.

You will have to experiment with the times to find what is best for your roaster.


I'm pretty much at the maximum rated capacity of the roaster (1 pound). I might be able to squeak another 20% increase in volume but it is pretty full at 1 pound (455 grams)

I think next roast I will shut the burner off around 350 instead of turning down to 50% and see how that goes. The roaster is pretty hot at that point so the retained heat should keep things move up temp wise until I hit first crack.

The burners are pretty responsive as far as power up goes. Not sure about how fast they cool off once power is decreased.

I think I am overs shooting. It is just a matter of timing to get things to slow down at the end of the roast.
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: Behmor 1600 +
Grinders: Modified Super Jolly - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
coffeeroastersclub

Quote

HoldTheOnions wrote:

Quote

coffeeroastersclub wrote:

Just an observation and question: You mention 390 as start of 2nd crack? Is that a bean mass temp reading? If so something appears to be off; 2nd crack generally starts at bean mass temps of over 444.

Len


Are you saying in general or specifically for that machine?


I am saying in general. I have used as a reference Tom's guides, one at
https://www.sweet...-guide.php , and the other at http://www.sweetm...gree-roast . His info has correlated real close to my own observations on my fluid bed roasters and electric drum types.

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
allenb

Quote

Turtle posted: 2nd crack was well underway when I dumped the drum @ 405 BT 2nd crack started just short of 400

New k-type probe centered within the bean mass (got great positioning with only 1 hole in the roaster).Turtle


Every drum roaster I've ever built/tweaked/modded has been an absolute PITA to try and locate a usable position for bean temp. It took me 5 or 6 different locations to finally find an "ok" spot for my present 1 lb gas fired drum roaster. Many if not most of the factory built drum roasters today using sheathed probes show somewhere between 370 and 390 F bean temp at the start of first crack and 2nd seems to come in with most roasters around 40 to 45 degrees later. My advice to people using drum roasters is if you get fairly consistent temperature feedback from roast to roast using the same batch weight is don't sweat the numbers if they seem higher or lower than the "norm". Even after finding the "best" probe location for my drum roaster, I've still got to live with wacky reads during the vapor release at 1C.

One thing that may provide a noticeable improvement in your ability to steer your roasts through tighter curves is make a big reduction in the amount of insulation around the drum. The key is to find the amount that will prevent major heat loss but not hold so much that it prevents your ability to drop at a decent rate. The sweet spot with my 1 lbr is 1/2" thick mineral wool. Very little heat loss to the room but I can quickly drop ET to finesse the profile from 1C to finish.

BTW, I love your roaster! You better not ever get rid of it.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
HoldTheOnions

Quote

coffeeroastersclub wrote:

Quote

HoldTheOnions wrote:

Quote

coffeeroastersclub wrote:

Just an observation and question: You mention 390 as start of 2nd crack? Is that a bean mass temp reading? If so something appears to be off; 2nd crack generally starts at bean mass temps of over 444.

Len


Are you saying in general or specifically for that machine?


I am saying in general. I have used as a reference Tom's guides, one at
https://www.sweet...-guide.php , and the other at http://www.sweetm...gree-roast . His info has correlated real close to my own observations on my fluid bed roasters and electric drum types.

Len


Sorry, my post wasn't very clear, I wasn't questioning the correctness of what you were saying, just asked so he knows if something wrong with machine or not, i.e. you have same machine so know that reading is way off for that machine.
snwcmpr

Quote

9 min : 371 - 9 min 30 sec start of 1st crack (385) - Burner to 50%
10 mn: 390 - 10 mn 15 sec start of 2nd crack (398) - Burner OFF
11 mn: 405 - Dumped beans

If you 'correct' the temperature reading to 'norm'.....
370 start of 1C, and some say 'norm should be 395-405, that is 25-35 low.
If you add the 25-35 to the 390 start of 2C, then you have 415-425 start of 2C. I don't roast to 2C anymore, but that does seem to be in 'the range'.
I think it looks good to me, but ....
Recently Allen suggested I extend the roast from 1C a bit longer than I had been (1:30), so I slowly creep from 1C (395-405) to dump, about 2 minutes. I end about 408-425 depending on the beans.
I was 'accused' of underdeveloped roast by someone I trust to know coffee very well.

Ken in NC
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
turtle
What came out is very tasty. Brewed some this morning and I have no complaints.

I've always run long after 1st crack started but this roaster is "different" and does not seem to respond quickly when I lower the heat.

Maybe too much steel or too much insulation or something else. Outside of the burners and control system changes I HAD to make to get it running, the roaster is as it was shipped from the manufacturer.

I'm going to try to kill the burners half way between end of dry and start of first crack to see if this helps slow things down at the end

Other than that I am stumped unless I do some redesign and I REALLY like this roaster to do any more to it than I had to to get it running again.

I think it is going to be just a matter of "learning" the roaster to be able to "finesse" things a little more.
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: Behmor 1600 +
Grinders: Modified Super Jolly - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
snwcmpr
Mick, I haven't read where you mention use of a fan.

Ken in NC
(Congrats on a great refurbish job)
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
turtle

Quote

snwcmpr wrote:

Mick, I haven't read where you mention use of a fan.

Ken in NC
(Congrats on a great refurbish job)


The roaster has a fan and cyclone chafe collector.

It does not seem to move a great deal of air through the drum area. Mostly under the roaster from the cooling tray (when that is opened).

I open and close the fan "flap/damper" during the roast @ the drying stage and @ the start of first crack

Preheat and other times the flap is closed.
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: Behmor 1600 +
Grinders: Modified Super Jolly - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
turtle
Was able to get to 12 minutes total roast time but the time at the end was similar to the previous roast even though I turned the burners off @ 360 degrees (F)

I pre-heated the roaster at 1/2 the burner setting (25% instead of 50%) which made the pre-heat time triple before the roasting chamber got to 250 degrees. This seemed to stabilize the roasting chamber temp a little better so I think this is going to be my pre-heat routine (longer time to drop temp at a lower burner setting)

I guess my only option is to turn the burners off sooner if I want to extend the roast time at the end.

The roasted beans are VERY nice. Each roast is getting better and better but the numbers don't seem right to me. This last roast has much more complexity than previous roasts which may be due to the fact that the green in this roast are some pretty NICE Guatemalan. I think I am heading in the right direction but this is all new to me to have this much burner output. Maybe I should put in the lower output heating elements and see if I can get more control... I'll stick with the two 1750 watt burners for a while as it may just be a matter of time and timing before it all falls into place.

Baby steps and changing one variable at a time is going to be the ticket (I think)

Comparison of the previous roast and the last one.

if anyone sees a suggestion for me on the next roast I am listening

i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u414/turtle-web/food/coffee/roasts/artisan_graphs/4-23-2015%20_RW-GU_table_zpst5x6ihow.gif
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: Behmor 1600 +
Grinders: Modified Super Jolly - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
John Despres
Try less beans... It's counter-intuitive, I know. The larger bean mass will heat itself after the beans have become exothermic. A smaller bean mass will put off less heat once the beans are exothermic.

In addition, softer beans will roast quicker and need a slower ramp up.

J
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
turtle

Quote

John Despres wrote:

Try less beans... It's counter-intuitive, I know. The larger bean mass will heat itself after the beans have become exothermic. A smaller bean mass will put off less heat once the beans are exothermic.

In addition, softer beans will roast quicker and need a slower ramp up.

J


Great suggestion.

I started out with half pound roasts but they seemed to go faster.

Next couple of roasts I will play around with the quantity starting around 3/4 pound (350 grams)
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: Behmor 1600 +
Grinders: Modified Super Jolly - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
boar_d_laze
400g is probably very close to the roaster's sweet-spot. 75% - 80% of nominal is typical of nearly every 1lb - 1kg roaster. Not that yours isn't different, but 400g is a good starting point -- in part because it nets around 12oz out, which fits neatly in a bag.

(For some reason a lot of people treat roaster capacity like a contest in which the most inappropriately over-stuffed drum wins.)

Because your SF is electric and because it has the air flow control it has, you might have to work around a certain lack of agility no matter how light or heavy your charge weight. But I don't think so.

If the cyclone is pulling chaff and smoke out of the drum it's pulling air, too. You'll want to adjust your damper for the most aggressive airflow at somewhere between 10 - 20F before 1stCs in order to slow the exothermic momentum; and you'll also have to compensate for endothermic flash with anticipation.

In addition to the cooling effect, you want a lot of air flow during Development to clear the smoke and chaff out of the chamber.

Every roaster is different, but my usual profile is to drop power very low (in your case, down to something like 25% or less) at the same time I increase air -- in anticipation of 1stCs, and then to increase power slightly at 1stCs to anticipate the endothermic flash and avoid a flick before 1stCe.

That is, I usually try to keep RoR flat or declining all the way from 1stCs to Drop.
The only exceptions I can think of in the past few months weren't on purpose, but when roasts got away from me.

Try and shoot for total roast times in the 12:30 - 13:30 range for C/C+ through FC/2dCs. I usually go for something very close to 13:00 for C+/FC, with 10:00 to 1stCs and a 3:00 development time, for a ~23% Development to total roast time ratio -- but it varies with bean and desired finish.

And FWIW, that's a fairly typical, generic profile. Of course your style might be different, and I'm not trying to sell you mine.

Rich
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
turtle
half lb was too small

one lb was too large

3/4 lb was just right (says Goldilocks)

was able to extend the roast to 14 minutes (light city roast), seklls' and very happy now :)

thanks once again Rich.....

I think I am well on my way to really enjoying the SF-1 restore.

Last roast of Chiapas came out unbelievably well. Moderately light but increadibally flavorful

Next roast is going to be some Tanzanian pea berry
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: Behmor 1600 +
Grinders: Modified Super Jolly - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
Jump to Forum:

Similar Threads

Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Pyrex Bake-Round Dimensions For 3D Printed Roast Chamber Mold New Members say hello or you may update your profile. 15 03/14/2021 7:57 PM
roast time questions R1 Bullet Roaster 1 02/06/2021 2:36 PM
Sumatra Wet Process Pantan Musara Roast Roasting Coffee 3 02/04/2021 10:50 AM
Fresh Roast 500 intenals / cleaning Fresh Roast 8 and NEW SR 500 3 01/21/2021 8:50 AM
First Artisan Roast Roasting Profiles 11 10/24/2020 10:56 AM
Homeroasters Association Logo, and all Content, Images, and Icons © 2005-2016 Homeroasters Association - Logos are the property of their respective owners.
Powered by PHP-Fusion Copyright © 2021 PHP-Fusion Inc
Released as free software without warranties under GNU Affero GPL v3
Designed with by NetriX