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Upgrade adventure: 8828B to 8828B-2k+
voripteth
My trusty 8828B has faithfully performed roasts for several years but now the start button doesn't always respond to presses. Lately the bean cooldown cycle never happens. The beans dump and the machine goes dead. HotTop service says I need a new control panel but that part is no longer available. :( My choice is to look for a new unit or upgrade. I choose to upgrade.

The HotTop site says my upgrade is RED difficulty meaning the hardest. I'm nervous but I decide to give it my best try. The good news is that the HotTop site has detailed repair instructions with many helpful pictures. The bad news is parts of those instructions lead to 404 pages and instructions include steps that aren't actually required. For example, there is an instruction about removing the base of the unit to remove the main control board. Fortunately I figured out that this isn't necessary.

There are SO many screws in the HotTop! I have struggled with so many stripped screws that I now have a burning hatred for Phillips head screws. Buying a new screwdriver helped but I still ended up with blisters on my hand from dealing with so many overly tight screws. Shock

As I dissembled the unit I am shocked at how filthy it is. Chaff is packed almost everywhere, even tight recesses that I never expected. Bean oil coast the motor, solenoid and upper electronics. I'm disappointed at the design but I realize that it really hasn't affected the performance of the machine. I clean out the chaff but there is only so much I can do with oil encrusted electronics.

After about nine hours of work I finally have all the parts replaced and the machine reassembled. The upgrade instructions stop early, not showing how the new back cover and manual drop knob are assembled but I figured it out. I'm a bit worried that there are a number of extra parts still on my table. These are mostly extra cables and a ton of screws. I'm rather proud that I was able to follow the disjointed instructions and work around the 404 errors. I power up the machine for a dry run and everything appears to work! The color display is a bit odd. I'm in the 10% of the population who is sensitive to slow refresh rates on displays. When I look at this display and move my eyes I can easily see smeared red, green and blue versions. It's not a deal breaker but a bit of an eye strain. I'm too tired to do an actual roast tonight.

Recommendations to HotTop:
* Please consider changing model numbers to reflect revisions. The new front panel is a significant change worth more than just a + notation.
* Please check all the links for your repair instructions and fix the 404 errors.
* Please consider making dedicated upgrade instructions or at least add a note which instructions need to be done just for the upgrade.
* Please include instructions for changing the back cover and attaching the manual drop knob.

Thanks to HotTop for making this upgrade kit available and providing enough information for me to complete the upgrade. smile
 
ginny
Send Randy G a PM from this site and he will see that you get what you need, the propr instructions for your project.

He is the resident Hot Top Guru and works as tech for Hot Top.


He will help. No excuse for a 404 error on a new upgrade.


ginny

rockon
 
turtle
the manual bean drop and rear panel are in a separate upgrade PDF as they have been offered for a while now (over a year since I upgraded mine)

http://www.hottop...ject2.html

It should either be included in the + upgrade PDF or a link to the separate PDF included in the larger/major upgrade directions.
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum
Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
 
voripteth
I did manage to figure everything out. It would have been nice if the upgrade link
http://www.hottopusa.com/kitB+.html included all parts of the upgrade.

I really wish there was some sort of numeric revision system for the HotTop. That way instructions could give specific steps if you have a "revision 5" machine. Personally I think they have held onto the same model number for far too long. Appending characters and symbols just makes it confusing.

Just wait for the new model: KN-8828-B-2K+@%
;)
 
ginny
well, I am still looking for Randy in all of this...

did he help you??


ginny
 
Randy G
I do not think I ever saw this thread, and if memory serves the only 404 error that had been brought to my attention was just a mis-typed/mis-pasted link had already been repaired. At least I have had no other complaints. If we made every update set of instructions complete it would make it VERY difficult to keep up with changes. Someone also requested a video of the upgrade which would be very difficult to create as well as less valuable because of having to pause repeatedly. We do have a lot of videos of most of the more common repairs and replacements, and even some for troubleshooting.

At the beginning of the update instructions, one of the steps was to remove the old eject mechanism (the link takes you to http://www.hottopusa.com/eject2.html). In step 28 of the update it states that, "To complete the procedure, reverse the disassembly order carefully." That "eject2.html" page has the assembly instructions for that. If every step were detailed, including the 13(!) other linked procedures the upgrade instructions would have been MASSIVE! On top of that, if there were a change in the instructions for some reason, all pages containing those directions would have to be found and changed. And if you examine the "-2" upgrade instructions here:
http://www.hottop.../kit1.html
You will see that much of that is already included in the B-2K+ instructions page.

In many of the pages, and particularly for all the updates, it states that all instructions should be thoroughly read and understood before attempting them. An upgrade like the "B-2K+" which requires a nearly-complete disassembly of the machine is not in everyone's wheelhouse. It is impossible for us to know the users capabilities or experience in these sorts of things.

At the beginning of the B-2K+ update page there are two sections:

"If your roaster is currently a KN-8828, KN-8828D:"
- and -
"For all other models:"

The first section is for the early models that require that the main board be updated so the base has to be removed. The second section is for all other models that do not have to have the base removed.

In terms of the model numbering, it is out of our control. This is decided by the factory. On the upgrade matrix I eliminated the "KN" from all the model designations but could not remove the 8828 because the original model was "KN-8828" and that would have left nothing for that one.

Early on I had two or three customers who brought to my attention some changes that could be made and I found their suggestions valuable and made most if not all of the changes and corrections they recommended. Since then I have received only praise for the instructions.

An undertaking such as this upgrade involves is not for everyone. If you read the instructions and have a feeling like, "I guess I will try it anyway," maybe that is not for you.

And just to be clear - I work for Hottop USA. I (literally) am the Customer Service Dept., and am also the webmaster having created all the content there (including the shopping area, all repair procedures, the upgrade matrix, photos, text, html, PDF files, and all the owners manuals except for the very first one which few of you have likely ever seen.

If anyone has a Hottop problem, writing hottop@hottopusa is the best way to get answers. We do our best. If you find 404 errors I do need to hear about hose and other such problems ASAP. I am normally answering Hottop questions 7 days a week and sometimes even late on a Saturday or Sunday evening.

For those who have missed it, we have a few articles at Hottopusa.com on maintenance including tools and materials, cleaning regimes that go beyond the owners manual, and more available. Check these out:

User Maintenance of Hottop Coffee Roasters
Cleaning a Dirty Hottop Roaster
Video Education Center
We also offer Refurbishing Services at which time we can install update kits. Be aware that this can be costly and for a few hours labor for most owners, doing it yourself is highly recommended.

An updated manual will be done later this year with links to those articles, but for now, if you have not at least removed the back cover and top cover of your roaster I suggest that you do so. And check our Video learning Center for videos on a lot of that.

Finally, just today I added a new article there
http://www.hottop...tatic.html
It documents how to set up Artisan with a set of alarms (which I have supplied) to speak (text-to-speech) the necessary heat and fan changes to "copy" a very good roast profile. I roasted about 6 pounds of coffee to arrive at that set of controls. They are not the "end all" of roasting, but should give you a really good foundation on which to build.
Edited by Randy G on 06/12/2015 5:57 PM

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
voripteth
I do appreciate the work on the online repair procedures. They were certainly helpful. I'm trying to offer constructive criticism on how to make the process easier for future customers. It was stressful trying to follow the instructions and stumbling upon 404 errors just make it worse.

Here are some of the broken links I found.
Page: https://www.hotto...kitB+.html
"Disconnect the wires from the Fusible link" which links to https://www.hotto.../link.html which is 404.

Page: https://www.hotto.../heat.html
Pictures for steps 10, 11, 12 and 13 all have broken links.

Page: https://www.hotto.../side.html Step 3 has two broken picture links.

On page: https://www.hottopusa.com/upgrade.html
The text: "Specifically, pay attention to step #19a and #19b " doesn't indicate where to find step 19a and 19b. The link for my kit https://www.hotto...kitB+.html does not have separate step 19a and 19b steps. I still have no idea what this refers to. A link to the steps would be greatly appreciated.
 
Randy G
I wish you would have sent those links to examine as soon as they were found. I will be going through those first thing in the morning.

I can say that the part about "19a and 19b" is right under this statement:
"When Upgrading FROM a KN-8828 and KN-8828D models"
Those are the two original models. You had a KN-8828B and so that reference is not relevant to your upgrade.

The upgrade procedures are complicated due to how many models, their variations, and even the machines that have been partially upgraded in the past. Because of all that is is VERY important to read ALL the steps on the upgrade page to help make you choice, and then slowly go through the specific procedure. And I am there at hottop@hottopusa.com (more hours a day than I should be), and it is a rare occasion when it takes more then 12 hours to get a response from me. So when a difficulty arises please drop us a note so that we can address the problem as best as we can.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
Randy G
ADDENDUM: All the listed broken links have been repaired [please note time of this post].

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
voripteth

Quote

I can say that the part about "19a and 19b" is right under this statement:
"When Upgrading FROM a KN-8828 and KN-8828D models"
Those are the two original models. You had a KN-8828B and so that reference is not relevant to your upgrade.


For those who have a machine where these extra steps are relevant, WHERE do you find steps 19a and 19b?

I suggest making the underlined emphasis Specifically, pay attention to step #19a and #19b into an actual link showing the page that include these steps.

I really appreciate that you are there to provide help if I really got stuck. I was almost ready to reach out several times during the upgrade, especially during the fusable link broken pages. Fortunately I think I've figured everything out. My dry runs of the machine seem to work correctly. I'm doing my first real roast after the upgrade in a little bit. cross fingers
 
voripteth

Quote

Randy G wrote:

ADDENDUM: All the listed broken links have been repaired [please note time of this post].


Sorry, I still see a broken link.
Page: https://www.hotto...kitB+.html
On the "KN-8828, KN-8828D:" side. Link text: Disconnect the wires from the Fusible link

I strongly suggest a step be added about assembling the new back panel after step 27 of the kitB+ instructions. You already have a page for the instructions:
https://www.hotto...rear2.html

Thanks for fixing the pages! ^_^
 
Randy G
The fuselink.html link was repaired last night and was working then. Reload the page in your browser to refresh it.

In terms of the "-2" and installing the new rear cover, that has now been added to the B-2K+ update instructions.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
turtle

Quote

Randy G wrote:

The fuselink.html link was repaired last night and was working then. Reload the page in your browser to refresh it.


the best way to force reload a page is to press and hold down the control key on your keyboard while pressing the F5 function key.

this is the universal browser refresh combination on all browsers.

.
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum
Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
 
voripteth
Looks good! Thanks so much for the fixes!
 
ginny

Quote

the best way to force reload a page is to press and hold down the control key on your keyboard while pressing the F5 function key.

this is the universal browser refresh combination on all browsers.



ONLY if you own a PC...



-g

beach
 
Randy G
On a few pages (including the repair procedures and the B-2K+ upgrade instruction page) I have added a link to a new page called Hottop USA User Repair Tips. Some of it it Hottop specific (getting assistance to replace the top cover), and some is generic (using a tool magnetized to hold screws to a screwdriver making them easier to start).

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
JackH
I am not sure if HotTop uses Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) screws. These are different from the US Phillips screws. The right size and type screwdriver will prevent damage to the phillips heads.
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
 
Randy G
They are a Taiwanese manufacturing company, FWIW.

I have always used standard screwdrivers (Craftsman for the most part) and have not had a problem. The worst screws are the ones that hold the glass-retaining bezel as they dissimilar metals and the heat all but fuse those in place over time. A #1 and a #2 of various lengths suffice.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
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