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Homeroasters - Home Roasting Coffee Community » DATALOGGERS - CONTROLLERS - RATE OF RISE METERS » Dataloggers/Controllers/Rate of Rise Meters

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TC4 aArtisanQ_PID or Standard Library
James211	#1 Posted on 01/13/2016 8:13 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 78 Joined: January 25, 2014	I'm still a bit new to the different TC4 arduino libraries and trying to understand the difference. I understand that with the aArtisanQ_PID you can run it solo, which I don't plan to do. I do however plan to use the artisan software on my mac and use the arduino as a PID. Jim sold me a crydom D2425 SSR to use. With that in mind, which arduino software do I need? Thank you.


BenKeith	#2 Posted on 01/14/2016 5:10 PM
Pounder Posts: 485 Joined: April 21, 2014	Basically there are two. RoastLogger and Artisan. I use RoastLogger because when I started, Artisan didn't have the PID and didn't support the ZCD for AC fan control. Then they came out with Q_PID but it still did not support the ZCD. The latest version now does that so you pretty much just pick which one you think best suits you. Now that Artisan does what I need, I looked at it but decided I'm just not into wanting to learn how to use a new program when I've already got RoastLogger figured out. Since you didn't post what you are going to be using it on, that makes a difference. For instance, if you have an AC fan/blower and you want to control the speed of it, you are also going to need the ZCD and a -10 SSR before you can do that. If you are not mounting the SSR's on a large metal surface that can act as a heat sink, you will most likely need heat sinks for them. If this is not going to be mounted inside something like a Hot Top, then you are going to want to look at an enclosure and probably quick connects on the thermocouples. Pretty soon you end up with something that looks like these two.


James211	#3 Posted on 01/14/2016 5:15 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 78 Joined: January 25, 2014	Sorry I didn't mention that. My plan is to use it on the artisan software with an Arduino TC4 setup. Currently I only plan on controlling the heating elements. Fan and Amp meter will follow. I just need to know which of the arduino libraries I need to use to work with artisan, and for artisan to send commands to the TC4 to control the SSR for the elements.


BenKeith	#4 Posted on 01/14/2016 5:36 PM
Pounder Posts: 485 Joined: April 21, 2014	There's not that much to figure out for that. For the computer displayed graphing capabilty, it's going to be Artisan Visual Scope. That loads on the computer and supports a number of different types of controllers, one being the Arduino TC4 Shield and the TC4C stand alone unit. Then you will need to down load and setup Arduino 1.0.6 or 1.6.6. There were some issues with the new 1.6.6 but they may have them all worked out now. This gives you the capability to install the Q-PID onto the TC4 and to edit user specific features. If you have the TC4C, Jim may have already installed Q_PID on it so there is nothing you will probably need to do. Grand total, there are three pieces of software involved. Artisan Visual Scope for the computer Arduino to be able to upload and edit Q-PID into the TC4 Artisan Q-PID to control the device you are going to connect it to. All the libraries needed will either be included in the Arduino when you download and set it up and those specific to the AartisanQ_PID will be included with it when you down load it and just read the instructions on how to set it up on the computer.


BenKeith	#5 Posted on 01/14/2016 9:59 PM
Pounder Posts: 485 Joined: April 21, 2014	I hope this was clear to you. Once you have Artisan Visual Scope copied onto your computer. It will only be communicating with the TC4 by means of the AartisanQ_PID that is loaded into the memory on the TC4 through a USB cable. Arduino IDE 1.6.6 only gives you the ability to load and change user items in Q_PID into the TC4. The thermocouples and the SSR for the heater will connect to the TC4. There are not connections or controls the TC4 will make directly to the roaster other maybe the HOTTOP and I know nothing about it. It will only be monitoring the temps through the thermocouples and feeding that info to Artisan and it interface with the SSR and you will be able to either manually control the heat through it or put it in the PID mode and Artisan will automatically control the heat to what ever levels you have it setup for based on the thermocouples readings, by means of the SSR. There are no files or libraries outside of what you will download with these three programs to do be able to do everything needed. The TC4 can also run standalone without the computer even being hooked to it. A lot of time when I just want to make a quick roast and not mess with setting everything up, I just use the TC4 without the computer. Edited by BenKeith on 01/14/2016 10:08 PM


James211	#6 Posted on 01/14/2016 10:11 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 78 Joined: January 25, 2014	Thank you, this has been a help to some degree. My biggest question is, do I use the artisan PID sketch instead of the TC4 or in addition too? From there I need to start playing and then I'll have more questions. Thank you BenKeith


BenKeith	#7 Posted on 01/15/2016 4:41 AM
Pounder Posts: 485 Joined: April 21, 2014	Now I'm confused. TC4 is a nothing but a circuit board, http://code.google.com/p/tc4-shield/ Jim and a few others have developed for the specific purpose of monitoring and controlling coffee roaster. There are two version of it. One is the TC4C which is a stand alone board and the other is the TC4 Shield which piggy backs on top of an Arduino UNO 3 board. The TC4C does not support the ZCD so if you want add AC fan control, you have to use the TC4 Shield paired up with the Arduino UNO 3 board. Neither of these boards do anything by themselves, they must have some type of software loaded into them to tell them what and how to do something. That's where Artisan and RoastLogger come in. They are the software that loads into the board to program it. To get the software loaded into the board is where Arduino IDE 1.6.6 comes in. Both software were developed using Arduino and it is the IDE and you have to have it to load the software into the TC4, which ever one you use. Then the software loaded on you computer, be it RoastLogger or Artisan connects to the TC4 board through a USB cable and the two communicate with each other. The SSR and the thermocouples are connected to the TC4/TC4C and it's sending and receiving data to the computer. There are no software programs or anything else called TC4 other than the circuit boards.


BenKeith	#8 Posted on 01/15/2016 5:23 AM
Pounder Posts: 485 Joined: April 21, 2014	It was too late to edit so I had to start another. When I said Artisan and RoastLogger load into the TC4, I was referring to AartisanQ_PID and RoastLoggerTC4. Either of these can be used in the TC4 board. There are links to both on the TC4 website. The Artisan Visual Scope is a different and separate program http://coffeetrou...tisandocs/ RoastLoggers http://homepage.n...r/pid.html Edited by BenKeith on 01/15/2016 5:33 AM


James211	#9 Posted on 01/15/2016 5:31 AM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 78 Joined: January 25, 2014	I see why I'm confusing you. To use my arduino/TC4 setup with the artisan software I had to load the following packages from the google code libraries. - aArtisan-REL-200a - TC4-StdLib-REL-300 So if I want to use my arduino/TC4 with PID functionality, do I just add the aArtisanQ_PID_3_7 or do I use that in place of aArtisan-REL-200a. And last, do I need the Arduino PID library installed as well? https://github.com/br3ttb/Arduino-PID-Library/ Hopefully that clarifies my question. Sorry for the confusion.


BenKeith	#10 Posted on 01/15/2016 6:01 AM
Pounder Posts: 485 Joined: April 21, 2014	Ok, You do have the board, you were making it sound like you were thinking TC4 was just another program. I don't use Artisan but Don't bother with Q-PID_3_7. It's way too outdate. I think the latest version is Q_PID 5.3, you need to find and download that. There are three or four libraries associated with it so make sure they are included with the download. Make sure you understand Arduino's rules for how it handle libraries, because if you don't have them where they need to be, it won't work. Then you need to go to Arduino and Download Arduino IDE 1.6.6. Also find their instructions for setting it up on your computer and follow those. Once you get Arduino setup, you will use it to install Q_PID 5.3 on your TC4. Load the Profile sketch first, then the Q_PID 5.3 after the profile has been loaded. There is also a user.h library that will come with 5.3. You will use 1.6.6 to make changes to that for your specific use, like 50/60hz C of F etc. Understand also, Arduino is very specific about how everything has to be in the computer so make sure you read and understand their directions on where everything goes, or it won't work. Then you will setup Artisan Visual scope on the computer, what ever version is the latest now. Once you get Visual Scope set up and 5.3 into the TC4 and everything is good, they should communicate with each other. If you are not getting the temp readings and just 0.1 or something like that, they are not communicating with each other. The biggest mistake is not setting the baud rate to 19600 so don't forget to set the baud rate when going through the configuration. The first time you connect the TC4 to your computer, you will probably have to install the drivers. I use windows and with that you do, not sure about the MAC's but the computer has to recognize the TC4 first, before Artisan can use it. Edited by BenKeith on 01/15/2016 6:13 AM


James211	#11 Posted on 01/15/2016 6:04 AM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 78 Joined: January 25, 2014	Got it, so I don't even need to bother with - aArtisan-REL-200a - TC4-StdLib-REL-300 And where do I find AartisanQ_PID 5.3, I've done a few google searches and have had no luck. Edited by James211 on 01/15/2016 6:12 AM


BenKeith	#12 Posted on 01/15/2016 6:24 AM
Pounder Posts: 485 Joined: April 21, 2014	Several threads down from this one you have started, there is one called TC4 with aArtisanQ_PID. Go to post #90 and you will find a link to it. (Go Figure!) Not sure where else you can find it.


James211	#13 Posted on 01/16/2016 9:26 AM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 78 Joined: January 25, 2014	Thank you!


greencardigan	#14 Posted on 01/17/2016 5:44 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1181 Joined: November 21, 2010	Quote James211 wrote: Got it, so I don't even need to bother with - aArtisan-REL-200a - TC4-StdLib-REL-300 And where do I find AartisanQ_PID 5.3, I've done a few google searches and have had no luck. I believe that both aArtisan and aArtisanQ_PID should work with the same libraries. The PID library has already been included in the TC4 libraries. The choice between aArtisan and aArtisanQ_PID should primarily be based on what roaster hardware you intend to control. aArtisanQ_PID is written to support the connection of a zero-cross detector and doing ICC control of a heater and phase angle control of a blower. Both aArtisan and aArtisanQ_PID now contain PID algorithms which can receive setpoints sent from the Artisan logging software. If you're just using the TC4 and Artisan to do logging, then you should be fine with either aArtisan or aArtisanQ_PID as they both use the same base set of commands to talk to the Artisan logging software. To confuse things more, I have allowed aArtisanQ_PID to be configured (in the user,h file) to send/receive data from the Roastlogger software as well, although I haven't test this for quite a while.


greencardigan	#15 Posted on 01/17/2016 6:10 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1181 Joined: November 21, 2010	I've added the library files I use here. I think they're the same as the latest in the TC4-Shield repository with the possible exception of a small update to cButton.cpp. http://forum.home...post_58433 Unfortunately the Goggle code site is being shut down and the TC4-Shield project on there is now read only. I've been encouraging Jim to export it to GitHub but that hasn't happened yet. I've tried doing it myself and there is a GitHub TC4-Shield repository with all the code but I'm not going to call it the 'official' TC4-shield repository yet.


James211	#16 Posted on 01/20/2016 8:26 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 78 Joined: January 25, 2014	So I have the latest TC4 libraries, or at least I think I do, and I'm running what I think is the latest version aArtisan-REL-200a on the arguing with the TC4 shield. Before I hook everything up, how can I be sure the artisan and TC4 are communicating and triggering the SSR? Again, I want to test everything before hooking it into the roaster.


greencardigan	#17 Posted on 01/20/2016 9:07 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1181 Joined: November 21, 2010	You can test the connection between the computer and the Arduino/TC4 by using the serial terminal in the Arduino software. You can try sending the READ command and confirm that the TC4 sends back some temperature readings. You will need to make sure you have the baud rate in the Serial Terminal set the same as you have set in the user.h file that is with the aArtisan-REL-200a sketch. Maybe you could connect a small AC lamp to the SSR to test the SSR? See if you can turn the lamp on/off by sending commands from the serial terminal? Be careful with any exposed mains wiring.


James211	#18 Posted on 01/20/2016 9:12 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 78 Joined: January 25, 2014	Well I know that the temp readings work fine. I just want to figure out that the SSR is working properly through the TC4. What command would I send through the serial terminal to trigger the SSR?


greencardigan	#19 Posted on 01/20/2016 9:45 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1181 Joined: November 21, 2010	There's a list of commands here. https://code.goog...mmands.txt The command you want is OT1;xxx where xxx is the percent duty cycle. This is assuming you have the SSR connected to the OT1 pins on the TC4. So send OT1;100 to turn the SSR on and OT1;0 to turn it off. Also, I understand that the latest version of aArtisan is V310. You can find it here. https://code.goog...%2FREL-310


BenKeith	#20 Posted on 01/20/2016 10:44 PM
Pounder Posts: 485 Joined: April 21, 2014	Since I don't use Artisan, I'm asking, how does it control the temp. Does it have some type of a slider? As mentioned, if you hook a incandescent lamp to the SSR, you should be able to dim and turn the lamp on/off with Artisan. greencardigan I would like to ask you one quick question about aArtisan and Q_PID. When using Q_PID, is there a 60 second delay between the time you load the beans to start a roast cycle and the time the PID actually takes over and start controlling it? There is with RoastLogger if using the Action Tables and it's a pain in the butt. If that's not something Jim has programmed in and aArtisan, and Q_PID does not have that delay, I may be learning how to use Q_PID myself.


billsey	#21 Posted on 01/20/2016 10:51 PM
Newbie Posts: 13 Joined: August 11, 2015	greencardigan: Since that link takes you only to the archived version on Google, do you know if current development is happening elsewhere? Github maybe?


greencardigan	#22 Posted on 01/20/2016 10:57 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1181 Joined: November 21, 2010	Quote BenKeith wrote: Since I don't use Artisan, I'm asking, how does it control the temp. Does it have some type of a slider? As mentioned, if you hook a incandescent lamp to the SSR, you should be able to dim and turn the lamp on/off with Artisan. greencardigan I would like to ask you one quick question about aArtisan and Q_PID. When using Q_PID, is there a 60 second delay between the time you load the beans to start a roast cycle and the time the PID actually takes over and start controlling it? There is with RoastLogger if using the Action Tables and it's a pain in the butt. If that's not something Jim has programmed in and aArtisan, and Q_PID does not have that delay, I may be learning how to use Q_PID myself. Artisan has sliders which can send commands with a value based on the slider position. You can also set up buttons to send specific commands. There is no delay with the Artisan system. As soon as I start my roast, the PID is active and controlling the heater.


greencardigan	#23 Posted on 01/20/2016 10:59 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1181 Joined: November 21, 2010	Quote billsey wrote: greencardigan: Since that link takes you only to the archived version on Google, do you know if current development is happening elsewhere? Github maybe? See post 15 on the previous page in this thread.


James211	#24 Posted on 01/21/2016 7:24 AM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 78 Joined: January 25, 2014	I'm getting some verify errors with the version 3, any ideas? Arduino: 1.6.7 (Mac OS X), Board: "Arduino/Genuino Uno" aArtisan:327: error: invalid preprocessing directive #file_flipper #file_flipper { white-space: nowrap; padding-right: 2em; } ^ aArtisan:328: error: invalid preprocessing directive #file_flipper #file_flipper.hidden { display: none; } ^ aArtisan:329: error: invalid preprocessing directive #file_flipper #file_flipper .pagelink { color: #0000CC; text-decoration: underline; } ^ aArtisan:330: error: invalid preprocessing directive #file_flipper #file_flipper #visiblefiles { padding-left: 0.5em; padding-right: 0.5em; } ^ aArtisan:3197: error: invalid preprocessing directive #review_nav #review_nav { ^ aArtisan:3202: error: invalid preprocessing directive #review_nav #review_nav td { ^ aArtisan:3205: error: invalid preprocessing directive #review_nav #review_nav select { ^ exit status 1 invalid preprocessing directive #file_flipper This report would have more information with "Show verbose output during compilation" enabled in File > Preferences.


James211	#25 Posted on 01/21/2016 8:37 AM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 78 Joined: January 25, 2014	Found a different version of v310 that compiled fine. For what its worth, this is the link. https://tc4-shield.googlecode.com/svn/applications/Artisan/aArtisan/tags/REL-310/aArtisan-V310.zip

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