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TC4 aArtisanQ_PID or Standard Library
BenKeith
Just a tid bit of info, if you go down to the icons at the bottom and click on the forth one over, the globe, it will make you links clickable.
https://tc4-shiel...n-V310.zip
 
James211
I'm a bit confused by the wiring of the SSR into the roaster, not sure if you can help me or not. I've always looked at the SSR being wired in just as a switch would, run the line wire through the switch and keep the neutral all the way through. That's how I tested the SSR with a light bulb this morning, and it worked fine. Now when I look at all the wiring diagrams, it shows the line going through heater and into #1 and neutral going into #2.

Maybe I'm confused because there are two elements...I just want to make sure I do this right. I've wired a lot of different kind of main's, but never a heating element.
 
BenKeith
The Line voltage wires just like a switch. Common/neutral is straight to the load, Line is through the SSR to the load and the SSR only controls the line. If you wired both common and line to it, it would probably explode from the direct short across it.

If you are running two elements and plan to run 120VAC, the common/neutral will go to one side of each element, the line voltage from the SSR will go through the other side of each element.

Now, if you plan to run 240VAC, the common/neutral will go to one side of one element and the line from the SSR will go to one side of the other element and a jumper wire will connect the other two ends of the elements together, or physically connected together if they are close enough to each other.

I guess what I should have asked first, since not sure where you are at, are those 120VAC elements or 240VAC elements. What I described is for wiring two 120VAC elements.

Now, the low voltage control voltage has the negative and positive going to it.
Edited by BenKeith on 01/21/2016 5:23 PM
 
James211
Ok, now I feel better. When I look at this, it seems a bit confusing and it really didn't seem right now me.

http://www.jasonwolley.com/images/qm3_tc4_20.jpg
 
James211
My unit is 120V, so it wires just as I thought. The diagrams were confusing me and I'm still not sure I understand them. I've never looked at a diagram and been afraid to try it.
 
BenKeith
http://www.mlgp-l...o-pcb.html If you go here and click on the typical wiring diagram for roaster control, maybe that will help you.
 
James211
It worked out just as I thought it was supposed to. Just had a moment of question. The SSR and all probes are working through the serial monitor. Now I just have to figure out how to setup artisan to use the SSR/PID with the TC4. Know of any write ups?
 
BenKeith
I can't help you even a little bit on setting up anything about Artisan or aArtisan. I just loaded aArtisanQ_PID on a TC4 and have never gotten as far as even trying to set up Artisan. If you go back and read through the post on that subject a few threads down, there is probably answers to 99% of questions you may have.

Now, as for the PID settings with an air roaster, I can tell you the settings that work pretty good for me and you might want to try.
Kp=4
Ki=.02
Kd=7

That Kd might make it lag behind a little. I was running 9 and just recently changed it to 7 and only have a couple roast with it, so I haven't really taken the time to see if it's hitting the SP's dead on. However, any time difference it does cause can easily be compensated for and the difference in performance with these settings makes it worth having to compensate for it. It may even hit them dead on, I just haven't tried it enough and taken time to see.
With my setup and testing anything over a 6.5 on the Kp is going to start having large amounts of over shoot. 6.5 is also about that magic oscillation point on mine. The 4 setting with the .02 Ki does very well at keeping that down and still gives more than fast enough response. Going below 4 starts getting further below the SP more than I care for and more than any recommended settings, plus it seems to slow it down more than I care for.

Now, I don't claim to be a PID tuning expert by no means and others may disagree with my settings, but they work great in both of my TC4's with an air roaster.
Edited by BenKeith on 01/22/2016 10:47 AM
 
James211
So I have the SSR working with the TC4, but now I want to understand how or what I have to do to maintain a certain temperature. I'd like to be able to maintain the MET at a certain temp.

I'm also very new to PID so I haven't a clue as to what the kp, ki and kd settings do. I'm guessing I need to find a dummies guide some where.
 
James211
I think I first need to understand what each of the elements do in the PID settings. Everything I've read online is way over my head, so I need to figure that out.

Right now I just want to start with being able to hold my ET temp at a set point and I'm not sure how to do that. When I set a value now, it automatically seems to change the temp based on BT.
 
BenKeith
Don't worry about how the PID does it's thing right at the moment. There are college degrees given to people trying to figure that out.

If you come to something during setting it up in Artisan that ask for Kp, Ki, and Kd, just put those numbers I gave you in. They will work for now

You need to start going through Artisan and getting if figured out. Once you get into it, you should come to a control menu where you will put temps and times in for different points of a roast. Puts some numbers and just run it dry, without beans and watch what happens. Change the numbers an run it again. Get familiar with the Programs, they will control the TC4. Not a whole lot you have to do about running it.
 
BenKeith
One word of caution going through and getting things figured out. Since you installed your own heating elements, I seriously doubt you installed any thermal fuses or safety devices. Make sure you don't do something that turns on the heaters without the blower running or get side tracked and let the heat get away from you. You can melt a heating coil very quickly or cause the whole thing to start flaming.
 
James211
Thank you for your notes. The quest actually has a built in fuse for the elements. If it didn't Inwould certainly install one. The mod I did doesn't bypass the fuse either thankfully. I appreciate your concern.
 
BenKeith
Well, it's been a couple days, have you got things figured well enough to puts some numbers in Artisan to make you a profile to start with. I installed it and looked at it, and there's a lot to learn and looks like it does a lot of stuff for you, but looks pretty easy just to get you a basic profile into it and be able to run some test and do some logging. I would just run it without beans and make several runs to get a feel for it and see how everything does what it does.
 
James211
Thanks for checking in! Yes I was able to get everything running. Part of my confusion was in part due to my Mac running El Capitan. Apparently it doesn't play nice with Artisan. I hooked it up to my PC and the PID started to work and respond as I had expected. Now I have a better feel for things.

Thank you.
 
BenKeith
Other than a big rock I took pictures of during my visit to Yosemite National Park many years ago, afraid I don't know what that is.

Go into the Control tab at the top if you haven't already. Under the PID, it has a set of P, I and D, numbers already in there. They are probably more for a drum roaster but they will work just to play with it, or you can put those I suggest to try for your air roaster.
The heart of what you want is the Ramp/Soak tab. That's where you will set up your profile to roast by. SV is the set value, or the temperature you want to reach. The very first temp you put in will be where you want to start controlling the roast. Then you put a number of seconds to want it to take to ramp up to the next temperature you put in. Leave the soak blank unless you want it to hold a specific time for a point of time before it ramps to the next temp. I haven't use it but I'm thinking that's how that one works.
for instance. put in 200F and a Ramp of 180, The temp up put in 300 with a ramp of 120. Then a temp of 340 with a ramp of 220
This would set you a profile that would take you to close to first crack in about 9 minutes 40 seconds. Put a FC temp and time and and a development time and finish. Adjust that to fit and add a temp and time to finish the roast and you should have something to play with for a few dry runs and adjust on.

Now, understand, I have not tried this because I've never used it, but that's the way I would set it up in RoastLogger if I used that type of control, so if I'm wrong, maybe someone will steer us straight.
Edited by BenKeith on 01/24/2016 11:05 AM
 
James211
El Capitan is the newest operating system for Mac's. I did read people were having issues with El Cap and artisan. No big deal.

I did check the ramp/soak, just need to play with it a bit. What I'm really interested in, in the future, is being able to replicate a roast. That's my ultimate goal. I get some really nice coffee's and if I can't replicate the roast, I feel like I'm throwing money down the drain.
 
BenKeith
Now, if you are talking about replicating a roast you have bought that is roasted by someone else. I hate to say this but as the old saying goes, "When Pigs Fly" maybe. Even the best of the best with the very best equipment can have a hard time doing that. Just finding out the exact bean they used would be a major challenge, much less duplicating their profile. They don't normally give out that kind of information.

So, if that's your goal, I'm afraid you have spent what you have to obtain the near impossible. Get good enough at flavor profiling and you might get something close, but just beginning, that would be a ways down the road.

Now, if you are talking about doing a roast you like and duplicating that, yea, the PID does a very good job at that.
 
James211
Oh yeah, I'm not going to replicate someone else' roast, I'm saying once I nail down a roast I did, I'll want to replicate that.
 
BenKeith
OK, you have very easy ambitions and goals to reach then. Once everything is figured out and dialed in, that should be a piece of cake. I can stack roast curves on top of each other and see very little of the bean curve on the bottom one. I know you mentioned just wanting to use a SV and Soak time and let the bean rise to that like they do in drum roasters but I've never had much luck at repeating those exactly with the small air roaster. The temps just change too fast. I think you would have better success setting SV and ramps. That gives you much more control of the roast and should make it easier to duplicate. Just a suggestion. I think a lot of people use the SV and Soak, I'm just not one of them.

Figuring out a strategy that works best for you is one of the learning curves.
Edited by BenKeith on 01/24/2016 12:17 PM
 
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