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10/15/2021 2:19 AM
merlot85, maycondelpiero and hoeltz, Welcome !

10/14/2021 10:06 AM
Thanks for the addition to the group. Seriously considering building a drum roaster along the lines of oldgrumpus's. Love the design and craftsmanship.

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Morning, ar3mia ! and... coffee drink

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Espresso Gods Don't like me!
First, I'm am not a regular espresso guy so there are gaps in times between when I might make one, so I try to keep a routine I can repeat, even with long breaks.
For the most part what I do seems to work for me, but sometimes, for no real reason I can see, things go totally hay wire.
A few weeks ago, things did just that and I managed to get everything back on track, by regressing, making sure everything was perfect and after a couple of days, started making good shots again. This thing is, I ended up doing all the same stuff I was doing when it went south.
Well, for the past couple of weeks I've been making a couple a day and making Americano's from them. During this time almost everyone of them have been 35 gram shots in 23 seconds dosing 18 grams. I made two this morning for me and the wife, still dead on 35 grams in 23 seconds. After lunch my wife said if I made me one, make her one also. OK, 18 grams of the same coffee as this morning, same tamp, nothing different from this morning, other than when I hit the brew switch it stalls the machine, not a drop came out. The three way was screaming and bypassing out the bypass. I checked the grind setting, it's the same spot it has been for two weeks now. I thought, maybe I had over dosed or something so I try another, this time weighing the portafilter to make sure it has 18 grams. Tamp seating depth felt good, tamp felt good, locked it in, hit the switch and again, stalls the machine. I put my pressure gauge on it and dead on the 9.2 bar I've had it on for almost two years.
Nothing was changed since this morning and it wouldn't extract a shot this afternoon. After fifteen seconds, a few drops started to show.

So, I politely manipulate the main power rocker to the open positions and said to heck with it and made us two cups in the AeroPress.
Koffee Kosmo
What you have there my friend is - Your beans have absorbed moisture
This in turn makes your puck when tamped a little more sticky and it chokes your machine

Moisture is absorbed from humid air in a similar way to salt
Another way is leaving your beans in the grinder hopper overnight

To overcome this phenomenon - and its normal in my part of the world, you need to store your beans in a one way valve vessel and grind on demand

I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
Blog -

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
These beans were roasted almost three weeks ago. I realize if they were left in an open container that might be the case. However, these are in Zip Lock vacuum bags. The bag is opened to dip the beans needed, closed and the vacuum pulled back on it. I usually have four or five Zip Lock bags of beans and each morning when I fix my coffee, if any have degased and gotten soft, I pull the vacuum back on them. So, they are not stored in a manor where it's even possible to adsorb moisture. Plus, between 6:AM and 1:PM in a house that's had the heat on 72F when it's in the 20s-30's outside, I seriously doubt the humidity indoors would have changed enough to go from a good extraction to completely stalling the machine in five hours, even if they were in an open container.

I do appreciate your input, and yes humidity in the beans can slow an extraction down, but I'm afraid this time I would have a hard time believing that to be the cause. I turned the espresso machine on before I came in here to be warming up. Going to give it another try this morning.
OH Well, this time I'm the idiot. I roasted some beans day before yesterday to try them try them at a slightly lighter roast. I usually leave my fresh roasted beans open and exposed for the first couple of days so I sit them on my work bench in my junk room here. Some how, that didn't happen and one got with my other beans. They were the same beans so I thought I was extracting beans roasted three weeks ago and roasted to 18% moisture loss, instead I was extracting bean roasted 18 hours earlier with a 14.6% moisture loss.

I just set the grinder from a .007" grind to a .008" grind and tried them anyway. 38 grams in 23 seconds, and the taste sucks for a cup of Americano right now.
Great info here! ThumbsUp
Carpe Diem With Coffee
never, ever leave beans out...

they will end up tasting like dog fur, kitty poop or whatever else is around the house.

hope this helps!


Edited by ginny on 02/14/2016 5:38 PM
Randy G


BenKeith wrote:

OH Well, this time I'm the idiot... I usually leave my fresh roasted beans open and exposed for the first couple of days.

Ouch. Poor, poor beans. I feel sorry for them.
If they need to sit out that long to taste decent then likely they were of either marginal quality to begin with or were not properly roasted. beans like to rest for espresso, but just to degas, not be exposed to an oxidizing environment. One of the very best cups of coffee I ever had was made on a Bunn A10 from beans straight from the cooling tray of the Probat to the grinder to the drip machine.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
Blame that on Tom at Sweet Maria's. I used to go straight from the Roaster to the vacuum bags until about six months ago. I was reading something of his on his site and he said to leave them in a bowl for the first three days, then go into the bags with them. So, I figure he knows a little more about them than I do, so I started just leaving the bags open for a couple of days before zipping and vacuuming them.

Personally, I don't have a clue which is best. About three weeks is the longest I ever have beans after roasting, and that's only espresso beans, since I don't do a lot of those. It's one of those deals you figure is a person has the reputation for knowing what they are talking about, and you have no way to disprove that info, you kinda adopt methods they recommend.
If it is not broken don't fix it. I for sure will break whatever it is if I try.

The added bloom is really all I know of that is truly negative, for non degassed coffee. One very old Coffee roaster I know, just keeps on getting it as it comes out of their roaster.
This may shed some light on the errant advice from Sweet Marias a while back
From the Sweet Marias site:

Re: Degassing
Postby bigbells ? Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:03 pm

roybwilliams wrote:
After I roast my beans in a Nesco roaster, I store them in air-tight mason jars. How long should I leave the jars open to let them degas before sealing them? Thanks for your help.
You can put the lids on loosely for 12-24 hours, then tighten them. Sweet Maria's advice on this was causing confusion but with some gentle persuasion, they rewrote it a few months ago to make it more clear:
Dave Bellware
Roast: Behmor 1600. Grind: Baratza Encore. Brew: Behmor Brazen.
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Past Crop

Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:42 pm
Location: Whitakers NC USA
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
OK, I guess I will go back to my old way of dumping them in the vacuum bags and before I go to bed, seal and vacuum them, and then each day vacuum the ones that have degased enough they no longer have a vacuum.
Koffee Kosmo
My routine is
Roast to desired depth level
Cool in bean cooler
While still warm I bag in Milar 1 way valve bags

Degas time depends on roast depth
Lighter roasts need longer degas time than darker roasts and region dependent

E.G - My roasts are taken to the cusp of second crack and I degas from 5 to 14 days depending on area and hardness of the beans

i know i know
Its a black art ThumbsUp

I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
Blog -

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
I use the mason jar, loosely capped, for a day, then I vacuum with a Foodsaver mason jar attachment. I also use a container made with a one way valve, that will hold 1 lb (After roast 370 grams +/-). No overpressure will ever occur.
I start drinking it the next day, and drink it till it's gone. For us, 6 days unless we get company to the cabin.
I only use sealed bags as gifts.
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
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