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 Hottop or?
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| alext |
Posted on 03/03/2016 6:27 PM
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 Newbie  Posts: 34 Joined: March 03, 2016 |
I'm new to this forum but I'd love your thoughts and opinions on my buying decision. I have been roasting with the Freshroast SR500 for a few months and for the price I like it. However given me and my usage its not quite right. Although I have not made up my mind I am leaning toward getting the Hottop KN-8828B-2K+. Here is why I am considering it: * Prefer to roast about 250g per batch * Needs to be relatively portable since I roast outside. i.e. I move it once per week. ~20lbs * Data. Real time temperature. I know this can be added to the non + model or other roasters but that could easily be yet another DIY project that I will never finish * Holds its value. Not planning on selling it but in case its necessary * Durable and with good factory support I was just curious what other roasters there are that might fit my needs. As far as I can tell there really isn't anything else or am I missing something? Thanks. |
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| ginny |
Posted on 03/03/2016 6:57 PM
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 Founder  Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Alex... you are not missing anything. I have the same Hot Top but mine is not the K model, I have the 2+ it has the manual eject but not the thermocouple. yours came out right after mine. frankly, you can not go wrong with the Hot Top, it is a workhorse. I have had 3 Hot Tops, sold my older model and upgraded to the next. you can drop 300 grams into that baby and roast away... the Quest is the only other I would put into the same category as the Hot Top but with the Hot Top you have the auto roast ability which really rocks... funny you mention the Fresh Roast it was my first roaster back in 2002 that I fondly call the gift from hell. went from there to here... I have the Quest 3 as well and love them both but I do love the auto ability of the Hot Top. you can not go wrong with the Hot Top roaster Alex. let us know, ginny  there are a few more coming out like the Bullet but so far they are not shipping. it is a very cool looking machine which will cost a bit more but, hmmmm... link: https://aillio.co... ask Jonas any questions and he will respond, sweet roaster. I want one... |
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| Army Coffee |
Posted on 03/03/2016 7:23 PM
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 1/4 Pounder  Posts: 128 Joined: February 01, 2012 |
I loved my Hottop and Service and Support is second to none. Capacity became my issue...long story short, I oversized... Giddy Up NEC ASPERA TERRENT
North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67 |
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| ajf |
Posted on 03/03/2016 10:00 PM
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Newbie Posts: 7 Joined: February 27, 2016 |
I've had a KN-8828B-2K+ for about 6 months now and have roasted 50 batches in that time. It fits nicely in the kitchen cabinet, and is light enough for me to move without any problems. The only minor problem that I have had with the roaster are with the temperature readings which read between 15 and 40 degrees low. However, the readings are consistent, and first crack always starts at a reported 360 degrees (give or take 2 degrees). OK, I've had a few other problems when controlling the roast with Artisan, but those have been caused by my incompetence, or the mouse pad on the computer incorrectly interpreting an attempt to move the pointer as a click. Good luck, Alan There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
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| turtle |
Posted on 03/03/2016 11:49 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 652 Joined: November 06, 2013 |
The new plus model is a nice roaster. I modified my older B model to ET/BT probes and never looked back. I too roast outside on a dedicated cart. Roll it out, roast, roll it back inside. 
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee" Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1 Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+ Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3) Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials) Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto Vacuum: Cona - Bodum Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia |
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| alext |
Posted on 03/05/2016 12:51 PM
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Newbie Posts: 34 Joined: March 03, 2016 |
Thank you all for the replies. ginny, auto mode? Is that the feature that allows you to record a roast and then replay it? turtle, that looks about my ideal setup on the cart... I'll have to give that some thought. One other question I thought of. Does the Hottop make roasting back to back convenient? I assume chaff needs to be cleaned each batch but how annoying is it to do back to back? I'd be doing 2-3 batches at a time on occasion. Thanks again. Edit: Oh yeah I read about the Bullet which looks very cool. Maybe that can be next :) Edited by alext on 03/05/2016 12:57 PM |
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| turtle |
Posted on 03/05/2016 2:18 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 652 Joined: November 06, 2013 |
Quote alext wrote: turtle, that looks about my ideal setup on the cart... I'll have to give that some thought. You can use just about anything for a cart. My wife picked up this old "typing table/stand" on the side of the road (curb side mall as she calls it). 
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee" Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1 Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+ Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3) Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials) Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto Vacuum: Cona - Bodum Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia |
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| turtle |
Posted on 03/05/2016 2:33 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 652 Joined: November 06, 2013 |
Quote alext wrote: One other question I thought of. Does the Hottop make roasting back to back convenient? I assume chaff needs to be cleaned each batch but how annoying is it to do back to back? I'd be doing 2-3 batches at a time on occasion. Stock (unmodified) hottop has a safety cool down control that does not allow back to back roasts. The roaster must cool down to a set temp before it will go into preheat mode and start again. I never found this to be too much of an issue as there is always something to do like putting the roasted beans away, shutting down the roast profile and saving things. Getting the beans and roast log ready for the next roast This usually takes as long or longer than the roaster takes to cool down if you lift the filter out and open the roaster up (remove chaff tray and take load chute cover off). If you feel it is taking too long, there is a modification you can make that "fools" the safety into thinking the roaster has cooled down. That mod is covered in a post here on HRO. I've modified mine but I find that I rarely need to use it as it really does take a little time after you finish cooling and putting the roast away every batch. . Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee" Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1 Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+ Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3) Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials) Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto Vacuum: Cona - Bodum Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia |
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| ginny |
Posted on 03/05/2016 3:26 PM
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Founder Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Alex, yes you can save and do the exact roast again, I will look as I forget how many you can save at one time. I never save them... back to back right away, no but I have never had an issue waiting for the machine to cool down to roast again. ginny |
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| Randy G |
Posted on 03/05/2016 5:03 PM
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 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
ALex, Contact me at Hottop USA. I am the USA/Canada, and to some extent, the English speaking world's Hottop customer service agent. I do not want to use this wonderful forum as a sales platform, but would be willing to answer all your questions. Besides working for Hottop, I have been roasting on Hottop roasters for longer than anyone in North America, many years before I went to work for them. |
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| alext |
Posted on 03/06/2016 4:33 PM
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Newbie Posts: 34 Joined: March 03, 2016 |
Thanks again for the comments all. Randy I will be in touch. |
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| Charbucks |
Posted on 03/07/2016 7:38 PM
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Newbie Posts: 23 Joined: July 23, 2015 |
I bought a used and a bit damaged HotTop p-2 off ebay for short money and ended up buying the upgrade kit to make it go to the B2K+. I am so happy I did. This roaster is amazing. Equally amazing is Randy's support via the HotTop US web site. Lots of detailed instructions for repair, upgrade etc and they are pretty responsive on the emails. I feel like there needs to be a forum just for roasting with the upgraded hottop as I have not been able to get good roasts since upgrading. I was too used to pressing a few buttons for a program and letting it run. Now all my beans taste bitter, and I am barely roasting into 2c. Anyone with the hottop 2k+ want to help me relearn roasting on this puppy. You will not be disappointed with the hottop, but now I have a line out the door with all my friends wanting coffee I might have to buy a bigger roaster!! |
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| Randy G |
Posted on 03/07/2016 10:14 PM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
Are you using Artisan? If not, why not? Artisan makes this roaster an amazing piece of technology with wonderful control. The Alarms allow temperature-priority programming and it turns the Hottop into a whole 'nother machine. I have a new profile that is working out really well! Am roasting lighter than I ever have and have come very close to what Scott Rao recommends in his book, "The coffee roaster's Companion." I am not sure just how close one can get in a small electric home roasting appliance compared to what Scott roasts on, but I am trying. I have a City+ that has a development phase of 20% roasting 275 grams. I could probably get a bit further towards 25% if i roasted a bit less, but these are the best roasts I have ever done in terms of cupping espresso. Also, I did a City roast of Colombian I used in the Behmor Brazen and it was smooth as silk. We are not going to post profiles on Hottop USA because of the difficulty with varying voltages and such, but maybe I can work something out and place them in a zip file on my website if there is interest. It is still a work in progress, and I suppose it always will be, but I think it is worth sharing. |
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| Charbucks |
Posted on 03/08/2016 5:45 AM
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Newbie Posts: 23 Joined: July 23, 2015 |
Thanks for the Feedback Randy. I too am working with columbian. I have Rao's book and am trying to work through it. If you have a profile, I would love to see it to compare. When I had the P panel on it, I seem to remember Pre-heat to 165 degrees and drop the beans in. There was a gradual heating phase of a few bars, but I cant correlate that to actual temperatures now, which is the new readout. Are you stepping up the element temp gradually? Also when do you put on the fan and to what degree? How do you run a previously done profile to control the HT? I find I start with the element at 70-80%, get the ET to about 2.00, drop the beans, wait 2 min, hike it to 80-85, another 2, hike to 90, turn fan on 25%, 2 more min go to 100% hiking up fan more. I drop heat when beans get to about 330-345 BT which is around the time I see 1c, and sometimes I will drop the beans right as 2c What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions? Info is a double edged sword!! My profile:
Charbucks attached the following image:
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| turtle |
Posted on 03/08/2016 8:15 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 652 Joined: November 06, 2013 |
This is my favorite HT /Colo profile. I like the batch I was using roasted on the lighter side as you can tell. Notice I do little with the heater. Mostly fan to control the roast. 
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee" Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1 Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+ Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3) Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials) Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto Vacuum: Cona - Bodum Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia |
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| Randy G |
Posted on 03/08/2016 9:59 AM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
Charbucks: That is a long roast. Turtle's total roast time looks better. Turtle's looks good but only has a 16% development time. Scott Rao states that every one of his best roasts were between 20 and 25% development time. Not written in stone, of course, but both of you might try a higher charge temperature to shorten the pre-first roast time, and thus make the development time longer in relation to it. Charbuck, you might want to try charge at around 300 or so and leave the heat at 100% until about 350BT after the TP. I left myself a note and will try to save a file with all my data that you can load and try. These are just some thoughts based on what is currently working for me. |
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| Randy G |
Posted on 03/08/2016 11:05 AM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
OK here you go, folks... By downloading this files and/or using the enclosed data you accept all liability and responsibility for its use and release me from any and all liability, fault, claims, etc. Additionally, this is in no way affiliated nor approved by Hottop USA. The ZIP files contains three files. A png of the roast, the Artisan alarm file for controlling the roaster, and the roast file itself intended to be loaded as a background. Note that the charge temp was a bit higher than I normally aim for. At these charge temps you need to keep an eye on the temperature because once you reach about 330-340 the temperature rises quickly. Aim for a charge temp of about 350 to 355. Here is the file: http://www.frcndi...5files.zip |
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| Charbucks |
Posted on 03/08/2016 3:22 PM
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Newbie Posts: 23 Joined: July 23, 2015 |
Randy, thanks for that. Of course I wouldn't hold you liable for any of the info you provide. You are helping out. So Higher initial temp, got it. What about Fan? When do you turn on the fan, and how much? Whats the rule of thumb? That roast I did this morning tasted horrible. Worst batch to date. I somehow lost a whole row of control buttons on the artisan for some reason. Also how do you get the bottom set of graphs showing control set points to display? So you go 100% power until 350 at which point do you just cut power completely and let the roast coast into 2c? |
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| turtle |
Posted on 03/08/2016 3:39 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 652 Joined: November 06, 2013 |
Quote Thanks!!!!! . Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee" Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1 Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+ Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3) Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials) Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto Vacuum: Cona - Bodum Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia |
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| alext |
Posted on 03/08/2016 3:40 PM
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Newbie Posts: 34 Joined: March 03, 2016 |
You know you are an engineer at heart when a few color plots make you squirm in your seat. Now I am officially excited for the arrival of my hottop! |
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| Charbucks |
Posted on 03/08/2016 4:08 PM
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Newbie Posts: 23 Joined: July 23, 2015 |
Alex you will not be disappointed. |
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| Randy G |
Posted on 03/08/2016 4:33 PM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
Charbucks, Dude! Get Artisan and hook that roaster up! The real power of the "+" is the ability to create roast profiles using the "Alarm" function in Artisan. You can then examine how the programmed parameters affect the curve, and then modify. It is giving you control as well real-time feedback and create a real learning experience. And when you can load a previous roast as a template, then roast "over" that with the current roast superimposed on the old roast, it is like getting a classroom on roasting with every roast. And the one thing you get with Artisan is TEMPERATURE PRIORITY! Time priority means almost nothing. Being able to tell the roaster things like, "Set the heat to 80% when the beans are at 350F," is invaluable! It makes the change in the profile at the same bean state every time. If you see that the drying stage is over at 308 for every roast and you want something to happen at that point it is a simple matter of creating an alarm to do that (remember that an "Alarm" in Artisan can be a lot of things, but most importantly it can be an automatic adjustment to roasting control parameters). That is what the alarm sequence I wrote does. It sets the fan and heating power throughout the roast as I desire and it even starts and then turns off logging as well as drops the beans at a programmed temperature. If I see an unwanted hump or dip in the BT ROR I can then go into the alarms and make an adjustment when the roast is completed. I am still learning the best use of the fan. Part of the problem is that the bean mass in such a (relatively) small roaster is such that when the fan goes on it affects the BT temperature DISPLAY. That is, you start moving air through the roaster and the BT can drop a little, but it is not a true measurement of the beans themselves as much as it is about the effect the airflow has on the ambient (ET) temperature in the roaster. It makes using Scott Rao's recommendations a bit more difficult than if you had a gas-fired 10kg Probat but you can still get very close. I use the fan early in in the alarm sequence to clear the smoke, and later to quell the rise in ET to help create the desired development time. If you sort of think that heater control is slow and coarse, and the fan speed is the fast and fine adjustment, that should give you a basic idea. But again, hook that thing up!!!!! |
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| Charbucks |
Posted on 03/08/2016 8:24 PM
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Newbie Posts: 23 Joined: July 23, 2015 |
Hi Randy, I actually have been using Artisan. I guess I never really learned roasting too acutely on the HT as I relied on the program on my P computer. Now that I have so much control with the Artisan and the B-2K+ computer I have to relearn everything. I think I need to RTFM on Artisan. I too have read Rao's book, esp chapter 10. |
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| ajf |
Posted on 03/08/2016 10:15 PM
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Newbie Posts: 7 Joined: February 27, 2016 |
Quote Randy G wrote: OK here you go, folks... By downloading this files and/or using the enclosed data you accept all liability and responsibility for its use and release me from any and all liability, fault, claims, etc. Additionally, this is in no way affiliated nor approved by Hottop USA. The ZIP files contains three files. A png of the roast, the Artisan alarm file for controlling the roaster, and the roast file itself intended to be loaded as a background. Note that the charge temp was a bit higher than I normally aim for. At these charge temps you need to keep an eye on the temperature because once you reach about 330-340 the temperature rises quickly. Aim for a charge temp of about 350 to 355. Here is the file: http://www.frcndi...5files.zip There is a minor problem with the alarm file. The action for alarm 14 is incorrect. It should be set to slider fan and not START. Alan There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
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| Randy G |
Posted on 03/08/2016 10:18 PM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 398 Joined: February 17, 2010 |
I do not wnat to sound condescending, but there are three modes in Artisan (sort of): 1 - Just using it to monitor and graph while you control the Hottop "+" using the roaster's control panel 2 - Monitoring and graphing the roaster using Artisan while controlling the Hottop using the sliders in Artisan 3 - Using the "Alarm" system in Artisan and creating a set of alarms that automates the control of the Hottop while graphing the roast. It is number 3 above that I have been using, and the zip file I offered that is comprised of a roast log (a saved roast data set) and the alarm file that I used to roast that batch. So you just have to load the roast as a background, import ("open") the alarm file, gain control over the Hottop with Artisan and start the auto mode. And don't fret about just learning. I have been home roasting for just over 15 years and just learned a lot of this in the last 6 months or so. Rao's book added to it, but having the proper tools (the KN-8828B-2K+ and Artisan) gave me the ability to move forward. When you stop learning about roasting it is time to give it up and buy commercial roasted coffee. But I have always been a visual learner. As a teenager I watched a neighbor (a pro auto mechanic) rebuild a carburetor and that was all I needed to be able to do it myself. So having the graphing of Artisan really was a plus. Add the control and I was off to the races. Now if it was just that easy with everything I would buy every video of Paul Butterfield I could find! |
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