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10/19/2021 6:22 AM
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Roast profile comments/advice?
Still trying to work out a decent generic profile for my little drum roaster (Kaldi - all manual, on electric stovetop). I'm slowly zeroing in on what seems to be a reasonable approximation of recommended profile curves, but I was hoping for some advice on where it could be improved. First cup this morning was ok (Aeropress), but not stellar.

Some roast details: 265g @ start, 227g @ end. Turned down heat at 180C. Turned down again at 45secs after FC. Didn't reach 2nd crack.

Blend name: 80% Ethiopian Limu / 20% Colombian (just finishing off the Colombian - wasn't expecting an expert blend)
DoubleK attached the following image:
My Spin on Roasting Profiles

I've studied scores of award winning profiles and there is a common thread that I have used to construct my roasting profile. However, I've come to the conclusion that no batch of beans is the same, no grinder is the same, no water the same, roasting profile is not exactly the same every time, no consistency in brewing and taste buds are not the same every day. IMO: Too many variables to duplicate to figure out the perfect profile.

So just like my washing machine, dryer and dishwasher that have many different cycle options, I always use "normal" when using them. Same for roasting coffee. I use the same profile for all beans (

I know that the experts will disagree, but I think most are fooling themselves that every bean needs a different profile to get excellent results. I do understand that you need to have good beans to start with.

After roasting several years and having many people doing blind cupping for me scores of times, I have found that EVEN the same roasted batch will give a wide range of cupping results from different people.

I have also given people 2 bags of coffee from the same batch and they gave me different cupping results on each bag! All these differences could be on what type of car the person drives, barometric pressure, weather forecast, moon cycle, local baseball score and sun spot activity. Needless to say, my experience is: "It's a crap shoot" and the only thing that really matters is, "Does it taste good?"

The only basic thing I vary with the roasting profile is the development time to get different roasts from light to city++ and the drying time because I buy my beans directly from a farm in Nicaragua where they only harvest during last of December to spring, so if my beans are getting older I shorten the drying time up a little.

90% of my roasts use the same profile listed here are pulled at just the beginning of second crack. I always have excellent results from all who get and taste my coffee.

And remember: I'm no expert!
No expert too and I agree with you :)

In the table linked above please be aware that RoR is computed per half minute, F degrees.
So the final RoR actuall is 10F per minute = 6C degrees

Below is a table with minute values and also C degrees equivalents

Time   TempF ROR F TempC ROR C
   350      176      Charge
1   180      82   
2   215   35   102   20
3   244   29   118   16
4   272   28   133   15
5   300   28   149   16   DE
6   328   28   165   16
7   353   25   178   13
8   372   19   189   11
9   388   16   198   9   FC
10   404   16   207   9
11   418   14   215   8
12   430   12   221   6

To OP and others, another view about the "perfect" profile can be read here:
DIY: TO based IR 750g
Moded commercial: Dieckmann RoestMeister, Nesco, popper(s).
TC4ESP, MS6514, USB/Artisan/Apps, PID controllers
Grinder: MBK Feldgrind, mod'ed Porlex to 47 conical burrs, vintage PeDe Dienes, Kinu M38
Gaggia Mini, Aeropress, drip
And yet.
If I thought the folks here on this forum that know a lot more than I do were fooling themselves then I wouldn't follow the forum.
With all those variables there has to be a 'best' over 'excellent' and I believe there are people that know better than I what works in getting there. I must adapt their experience to my particular process but hopefully in doing that I'm improving my own expertise. If a guide with twenty years' experience told me the best route over a mountain I'd have know the area pretty well before deciding he's fooling himself !
I agree 100% with 'bobbooks'. Remember you roaster has a 'profile' of it's own also.
No oil on my beans...
Interesting discussion!

From the peanut gallery: To get the perfect profile consider the following:

Most of us buy beans at different times, different varietals from different farms. Even the same farm has different seasons, different aged plants, varietals, varying processing environment, different crop altitudes and harvested over at different times of their harvest season. All varying from one batch and shipment to the next.

Then our roasters have consistency issues like thermocouples and placement, bean temp, environment temp, air, flow and roasting times. Besides the different types of roasters and roasting, I assume that these all vary somewhat in the way you roast from batch to batch.

So after considering all these inconsistencies, IMO the art and science of roasting has too many variables from one batch to the next.

So as an amateur roaster, I started by studying the expert’s award winning profiles and have found and believe there is a common thread to most of their profiles. Dry time (200F - 300F) about 4 minutes, Maillard time to first crack about 4 minutes, Development time ~3 minutes.

That’s the fun of being an amateur roaster! Trying different ways and profiles to get the best roast. The most important and best profile is the profile that will produce a coffee that “tastes good” to you and your friends.
However, dry regime is desirable to be adjusted according to beans density/moisture, which can be measured even by diletante, as us :)

DIY: TO based IR 750g
Moded commercial: Dieckmann RoestMeister, Nesco, popper(s).
TC4ESP, MS6514, USB/Artisan/Apps, PID controllers
Grinder: MBK Feldgrind, mod'ed Porlex to 47 conical burrs, vintage PeDe Dienes, Kinu M38
Gaggia Mini, Aeropress, drip
The %Moisture of a batch of green coffee beans may be approximated by test weight. Test weight is arrived a by measuring the weight of a constant volume of beans or with a grain capacitance meter. I won't go into the dryer oven method.
I've found that decaf green beans are usually much drier that regular.
Edited by oldgearhead on 11/07/2017 9:54 AM
No oil on my beans...
Absolutely no question about the number of variables, heck, even the cup shape. I do believe, though, that there's something to learn from an expert who has spent a lot of effort reducing the degrees of freedom by holding many variables static. I'm thinking of two specific examples.
The recent discussion about the Costa Rica Minita was instructive, someone went back to the seller who posted his 'optimal' roast, it tasted better than the home roast. That vendor is kind enough to give roasting hints on the website alongside the cupping notes. Those hints, boiled down to ' n seconds after FC for such-and-such taste' are, I think, a very useful guide for different beans, as you say, holding drying and Maillard times fairly constant.
The "25% - 35% development time' beyond time to FC has made me think a lot. It's easy to take this as meaning, " Get to first crack whenever then add 30% and you'll get excellence" . Rather, I wonder if the conclusion should be, the time spent during yellow-brown phase develops sweetness, the time through FC develops savory and there's a time to fix the flavour which, if too short or over-long, will negate the good work done earlier. There's been an interesting discussion over there about the "golden phase" which I've found most thought-provoking.

Thanks to all for the insights shared in both these places.
Blind cupping by experts is done with a score given for many aspects. It was my understanding that these results although different from each of these individuals are pretty close and get averaged. Getting cupping results from your friends unless they are "experts" may have results with little similarity so is not an accurate estimation of the roasters temp profile performance.
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