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Gene with Artisan and TC4
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Masterkey |
Posted on 03/18/2017 5:52 AM
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![]() Newbie ![]() Posts: 17 Joined: February 13, 2017 |
Hello, I plan to control the heater of my Cafe Gene with Artisan and a TC4. What do I need for that? I want to use the software-PID that is implemented in Artisan. Can I do that with a dimmer or a SSR? I have no zero cross detection already. What specification do the SSR or the dimmer need to contol it with the TC4? Is there a specification of the TC4? I have the version V7.00. Masterkey |
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renatoa |
Posted on 03/18/2017 6:59 AM
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![]() Administrator ![]() Posts: 1546 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Is there available somewhere a controllable dimmer ? Actually both are using the same principle: modify the duty cycle. And do it right. The difference if that the dimmer do this at a finer level, synchronous with sinusoid zero cross, 100/120 times per second, while the SSR chop the power on-off more rough, 2-3 times per second. How do you plan to measure temperature in that decentered rotating drum? DIY: TO based IR 750g
Moded commercial: Dieckmann RoestMeister, Nesco, popper(s). TC4ESP, MS6514, USB/Artisan/Apps, PID controllers Grinder: MBK Feldgrind, mod'ed Porlex to 47 conical burrs, vintage PeDe Dienes, Kinu M38 Gaggia Mini, Aeropress, drip |
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Masterkey |
Posted on 03/18/2017 10:21 AM
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![]() Newbie ![]() Posts: 17 Joined: February 13, 2017 |
I want to buy this one: http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce...ac-230-Vac If necessary I also will buy this addiation modul: http://cpc.farnell.com/kemo-electroni...dp/HK01172 Do you thing this will work? Or is it cheaper with an SSR? First I want to control the temperature not inside but on the inlet of the drum. |
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renatoa |
Posted on 03/18/2017 11:50 AM
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![]() Administrator ![]() Posts: 1546 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
The dimmer from conrad is manual control, not related to TC4 The additional module is controlled by a continuous voltage or a PWM signal, no idea if TC4 support any of them, all I learnt so far is about driving a SSR only. A SSR is cheaper than the dimmer from conrad, but you need the zero cross module for TC4 also. You want to control temperature based on ... which logic ? Does Artisan feature any Gene control module based on exhaust temp ? DIY: TO based IR 750g
Moded commercial: Dieckmann RoestMeister, Nesco, popper(s). TC4ESP, MS6514, USB/Artisan/Apps, PID controllers Grinder: MBK Feldgrind, mod'ed Porlex to 47 conical burrs, vintage PeDe Dienes, Kinu M38 Gaggia Mini, Aeropress, drip |
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Masterkey |
Posted on 03/18/2017 12:10 PM
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![]() Newbie ![]() Posts: 17 Joined: February 13, 2017 |
What ist the OT1 Output of the TC4 when it is Artisan controled? I want to control the temperature with the integrated software PID. My idea is to record a temperature curve while i roaste manualy, and then let the roaster do it the same controled by the PID. |
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renatoa |
Posted on 03/18/2017 12:20 PM
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![]() Administrator ![]() Posts: 1546 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
You are right, I learnt something new, OT1 can be configured as a PWM control output. Still... using the two kemo components sounds more complicate and expensive than a SSR. DIY: TO based IR 750g
Moded commercial: Dieckmann RoestMeister, Nesco, popper(s). TC4ESP, MS6514, USB/Artisan/Apps, PID controllers Grinder: MBK Feldgrind, mod'ed Porlex to 47 conical burrs, vintage PeDe Dienes, Kinu M38 Gaggia Mini, Aeropress, drip |
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Masterkey |
Posted on 03/18/2017 3:50 PM
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![]() Newbie ![]() Posts: 17 Joined: February 13, 2017 |
Here you can see that it is not necessary to use a zero cross detection if you would like to control a heater with a SSR: http://www.instructables.com/id/Build...ys-Theory/ How can I configure the OT1 output? |
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renatoa |
Posted on 03/19/2017 2:57 PM
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![]() Administrator ![]() Posts: 1546 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
For Artisan related stuff best is to contact user Marko, the real authority in this field.
DIY: TO based IR 750g
Moded commercial: Dieckmann RoestMeister, Nesco, popper(s). TC4ESP, MS6514, USB/Artisan/Apps, PID controllers Grinder: MBK Feldgrind, mod'ed Porlex to 47 conical burrs, vintage PeDe Dienes, Kinu M38 Gaggia Mini, Aeropress, drip |
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greencardigan |
Posted on 03/20/2017 6:15 PM
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![]() 1 1/2 Pounder ![]() Posts: 1130 Joined: November 21, 2010 Location: Australia |
Quote Masterkey wrote: Hello, I plan to control the heater of my Cafe Gene with Artisan and a TC4. What do I need for that? I want to use the software-PID that is implemented in Artisan. Can I do that with a dimmer or a SSR? I have no zero cross detection already. What specification do the SSR or the dimmer need to contol it with the TC4? Is there a specification of the TC4? I have the version V7.00. Masterkey The TC4 can control a heater using a normal zero cross SSR. With this setup it will pulse the heater on and off. Or, if you use a zero cross detector, you can control the heater with a random fire SSR. I don't know about the Gene but I suspect the pulsed heater with normal SSR will be fine. Do you know what sketch is loaded onto your TC4? |
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Masterkey |
Posted on 03/21/2017 12:30 PM
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![]() Newbie ![]() Posts: 17 Joined: February 13, 2017 |
Yes I also think the pulsed heater with normal SSR will be ok. I have the new TC4 Version 7.00 ordered last month. I think there should be the newest sketch loaded onto the TC4. Or do you mean the Arduino sketch. I loaded aArtisanQ_PID_4_3 onto the Arduino Uno |
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greencardigan |
Posted on 03/21/2017 5:43 PM
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![]() 1 1/2 Pounder ![]() Posts: 1130 Joined: November 21, 2010 Location: Australia |
Yes I meant the Arduino Sketch. Version 4_3 is a bit old now and I think it requires a zero cross detector as it configured to do phase angle control only. Version 6_2_2 allows for slow PWM control of a heater connected to OT1. It still has a bug that affects the fan control frequency but I don't think you will be controlling a DC fan with the Gene. https://github.com/greencardigan/TC4-..._6_2_2.zip Make sure you look at the Configuration Options pdf in the download as it will help you with setting the options in the user.h file. |
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Masterkey |
Posted on 04/05/2018 12:10 PM
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![]() Newbie ![]() Posts: 17 Joined: February 13, 2017 |
Hi, I have already considered whether I should create a new thread. It's been almost a year now and I didn't have time to realize my project yet. Now let's keep going. Briefly summarized: I want to control the heater of my cafe gene with a TC4 and an SSR. I want to use the artisan PID control. I have already installed two temperature sensors in the gene and connected them to the TC4. Now the next step is to install an SSR. I have a CRYDOM TD2425 (input 3-32V, ZCD, 25a) lying around. Does it work with the TC4? |
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greencardigan |
Posted on 04/05/2018 6:50 PM
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![]() 1 1/2 Pounder ![]() Posts: 1130 Joined: November 21, 2010 Location: Australia |
Yes, this SSR should be fine to switch the power to the element. Connect it to the OT1 connection on the TC4. |
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BenKeith |
Posted on 04/05/2018 9:05 PM
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![]() Pounder ![]() Posts: 475 Joined: April 21, 2014 |
Have you gotten your TC4? Unless Jim shows back up, or one the guys building them, You may need to look at other options. Will2 had a few he built, not sure what his plans are with those. Also, if you are just controlling the heater, that should be almost pure resistive load and you don't need a ZCD for that. |
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Masterkey |
Posted on 07/26/2018 1:28 AM
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![]() Newbie ![]() Posts: 17 Joined: February 13, 2017 |
@BenKeith: I have bought my TC4 last year. Does anybody know why Jims homepage is down? I have printed now a case for the arduino/TC4 and the SSR on my 3d printer and flashed the actual aArtisanQ_PID 6.3 on it. The thermocouples are connected and are working well. Now I want to set the parameters in the User.h file. I have some questions on it and it would be nice if someone can help me with the setup. Code Download source
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greencardigan |
Posted on 07/27/2018 12:10 AM
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![]() 1 1/2 Pounder ![]() Posts: 1130 Joined: November 21, 2010 Location: Australia |
Quote What is different between CONFIG_PWM and CONFIG_PAC3? I want to connect the SSR or the heater on OT1. Is CONFIG_PAC3 the right one? Have a look at the Configurations PDF that should be in the sketch directory. It depends how you are wanting to control the fan/blower mostly. The PAC modes are for doing Phase Angle control of an AC motor/blower. Quote I have 50Hz. Is it relevant for me? Yes, comment out the 60Hz line and re-enable the 50Hz line. Quote I have at the moment 2 thermocouples on TC1 and TC2. Does it makes sense to comment the TC3 and 4 out? No need to comment out the other lines. Quote Do I have to comment it out if I do not have a LCD? Probably comment it out but no real need to. Will save memory if you comment it out, but I don't think there are any memory issues at this stage. Quote I want to control with artisan roastoscope and not with standalone PID. What do i have to set here? If you are using the Artisan built in PID or no PID then you can comment out the #define PID_CONTROL line. However, it will still work correctly as is. Quote // Heater and Fan Limits/Options What do I have to set here? In the first step I will not control the FAN. You can limit the available output percentages for the OT1 and OT2 if desired. Otherwise just leave as is to permit any output level to be used. Quote Is there a documentation about the calibration? Do I need ist? I'm not aware of any documentation regarding the calibration but you could look through the code to see how they are used. I understand that they are used if you want to tweak the values being recorded by your thermocouples. For example if it was reading 102 degrees C in boiling water then you could adjust to get it to read 100. Quote // Time Base for slow PWM on OT1, OT2 What should I set here? This relates to the CONFIG_PWM mode chosen up the top. It changes the frequency of the PWM output pulses. For example, the default of 1Hz running at 50% power will turn your heater on full for 1/2 second then off for 1/2 second. Quote What should I set here? // Output Pin Setup Do I have to set something here? No, most likely you will leave this as defaults. Unless you want to change which output pins are being used. Quote // Set up parameters for the base configurations Ok, here I do not understand anything. What should I set here? No changes should be made here. This is just mapping output values to variables depending on the mode chosen up top. Quote // Phase Angle Control Options What should I set here? Probably leave as defaults. It relates to PAC modes and adjusts some control settings depending on the type of load being driven. |
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JackH |
Posted on 07/27/2018 12:30 PM
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![]() Administrator ![]() Posts: 1763 Joined: May 10, 2011 Location: Boston, Massachusetts |
Thanks for your help with this Brad!![]() ---Jack
KKTO Roaster. |
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Masterkey |
Posted on 07/28/2018 1:05 AM
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![]() Newbie ![]() Posts: 17 Joined: February 13, 2017 |
Thank you, greencardigan! I will test the setup. Next step is to implement the electric to the roaster. |
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renatoa |
Posted on 07/28/2018 2:46 AM
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![]() Administrator ![]() Posts: 1546 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Where are you placing the probes ? |
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Masterkey |
Posted on 08/04/2018 6:46 AM
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![]() Newbie ![]() Posts: 17 Joined: February 13, 2017 |
@renatoa: I placed to thermocouples near to the build in thermocouples in the gene. For the first I controll the heater outlet temperature. Now I build the hardware an did the first test. I set the PID Parameters with help from Chien, Hrones and Reswick ;-) But I have a problem while starting the PID-controller. While the controller ist starting it is starting with heater power 100%. So I get a high overshot because my parameters setting is very slow. Why does the heater starts with 100%. The SV is at a very low level at this time. Is there a possibility to give the heater power another startpoint?
Masterkey attached the following images:
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