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Fluid Bed Air Roaster & Cooler
seedlings

Quote

Dan wrote:
Thanks, John, safe roaster design is something that we are considering, not only materials, but mechanical and electrical safety, too.


I had asked (Ginny) several weeks ago for a list of criteria used for judging, in addition to what is listed in the official rules thread. I didn't get any more specific judging insight. Perhaps when you do a future roaster contest there might be a more detailed list.

I was wanting to know the criteria on which the roatsters will be judged... listed is:

1) Capacity in pounds/ounces
2) Type of heat (electric, propane, natural gas, other)
3) Type of agitation (drum, air, spoon, other)
4) Roasting time at maximum designed load
5) Roaster temperature at finish of max load
6) Explain in detail the process of roasting coffee with your roaster.

But I was wondering if there are any others.
-ease of use
-asthetics
-computer controlled
-cost
-originality
-repeatability...etc.

Because, for example, who can say that "propane is better than electric" or "a drum is better than a spoon." Perhaps I need to invest more time in making it look pretty, if that's real important. Or maybe I should add another heat source, then it'll be the hottest. I"m not willing to change everything to be the best at every category, but if there's something I've seriously left out, I'd like to know. Someone could make a Hottop/Stir crazy look like a REAL UFO and maybe that's what the judges are looking for.

CHAD
ginny
CHAD:

I did respond to you and mentioned that all of the items you addressed:

-ease of use
-asthetics
-computer controlled
-cost
-originality
-repeatability...etc. <<<

along with our initial list were clearly things we would look at when judging the contest.

it would be impossible to add every item, for every entrant, to a list of what we or anyone could possibly look for in a roaster.

Nothing is better then anything else CHAD.

There is no right or wrong here.

ginny
Edited by ginny on 08/02/2007 4:26 PM
seedlings
Here's the rebuilt hopper out of aluminum instead of galvanized.

CHAD
seedlings attached the following image:
Aluminum Hopper[415].jpg

Edited by seedlings on 08/15/2007 7:00 PM
seedlings
...And the inside

CHAD
seedlings attached the following image:
Aluminum Hopper Inside[416].jpg
seedlings
Thanks you Ed! I remember coming across homroaster.com just after I started roasting with a popper. I've always wanted to see your finished product on the air roaster!

Your comments about my roaster are well taken. A large part of why I posted in the first place was for comments. I like to have second and third angles to give insight. I remade the hopper when I found out that galvanized was "bad," but didn't post it because I didn't want it to influence the judging since it wasn't done before the threads were locked. And one of my high priorities was building cost, therefore the OSB board. I watched as my house was built and the HVAC ducts and cold air returns are made of galvanized and, in places, OSB filler between the trusses to create the air seal, so that's one reason I figured those materials might be OK. I didn't like the loud noise, nor the additional plugs requred, but, again, 1lb for less than $100 was my original goal. My new goals are Safety, Cost, Ease of Use and Simplicity (aka repeatability).

There aren't words enough to fully express my gratitude to you all!

CHAD
Dan
Chad, This design was both intriguing and problematic for me. I like how you solved the air supply problem byh ganging two blowers in tandem. And, then there's the problem of twice the noise with two universal motors screaming at once. This isn't a complaint at you, but rather illustrates what I've discovered in my pressure bed tests, that there is no good off-the-shelf blower for our purposes. They either lack volume or pressure.

Having said that, I do think you have solved the nagging problem of what do homeroasters do when our supply of poppers runs out. I can see many homeroasters trading in their poppers to build this design instead.

The removable carafe is a great idea; you'd think that a hot-air roaster would cool beans quickly, but they don't.

Dan
seedlings

Quote

Dan wrote:
Chad, This design was both intriguing and problematic for me. I like how you solved the air supply problem byh ganging two blowers in tandem. And, then there's the problem of twice the noise with two universal motors screaming at once. This isn't a complaint at you, but rather illustrates what I've discovered in my pressure bed tests, that there is no good off-the-shelf blower for our purposes. They either lack volume or pressure.

Having said that, I do think you have solved the nagging problem of what do homeroasters do when our supply of poppers runs out. I can see many homeroasters trading in their poppers to build this design instead.

The removable carafe is a great idea; you'd think that a hot-air roaster would cool beans quickly, but they don't.

Dan


Regarding the beans cooling... perhaps I misunderstood you, but this design DOES cool quickly. It's another HUGE reason I like this method over others - that is, the cooler is built in! The bean temperature is down to under 150F in about 30 seconds. Maybe I didn't make this clear enough, but once the beans are to the roast I want, I shut the heat off and hold a screen (pictured earlier on in this thread) on top of the hopper, then close the damper and the beans circulate as violently as I want them to. Cool. Fast.

On the topic of blowers, I have no use for the built-in fans of the heatguns, so there's no "tandem"-ness to this design. I really only wanted the heatguns' heat elements because the blower is more than powerful enough on it's own (again, making cooling a snap). The only reason I used the whole heatguns was to keep the design in the "hey, I could do that in my garage" factor in play. I figured disassembling them or purchasing and wiring separate elements would make the design more complicated and, therefore, less desireable.
Oh, I will soon have a solution to the noise problem ;)

You have been a tremendous help. I've read several of your comments and threads, including the monster "Fans - Fluid bed roasters" and reread until my eyes ache. !Muchas gracis mi amigo!

One other thing, I have 3 poppery IIs (1 of them modified) plus a nice Hamilton Beach popper, and a modified breadmaker...the fun never runs out!

CHAD
Edited by seedlings on 08/16/2007 9:40 AM
Dan
Chad, that's good to know that the leaf blower is powerful enough, it should open up some designs for people.

The nice thing about bare nichrome heaters like in hot air guns is that they cool off quickly. Now that you explain it, I can see how yours would solve the cooling problem.

I've built a few sound enclosures at work. I typically use a two-fold method. First, build the enclosure out of some heavy material like 3/4" particle board. Then, line the interior with sound absorbing foam.

I also create serpentine baffled inlets and outlets, all foam lined, or course. You would add a baffle in front of your damper, which is where a lot of noise is coming from, not to mention your leaf blower inlet. Why not make a bigger box and move the leaf blower inside?

I don't know if it will let you hear cracks, but it'll make roasting more enjoyable.
seedlings
One thing to note about the standard egg-crate-foam (often used in packaging) as "sound absorbing" is its flamability. Highly flamable. There are some very dead former members of the band Great White who will attest to its flamability (burned down a club they were playing in in just a couple of minutes!) I know this because my other hobby is playing, writing and recording music. I did extensive research about cheap sound deadening material for my home studio. I ended up using a rigid fiberglass insulation from Owens Corning 705 series. It is high temperature tolerant, and actually used in industrial mechanical sound reduction. Another thing is that egg-crate-foam only absorbs a very small range of high frequencies, plus it doesn't absorb them very well. As a test, light a small piece with a lighter, then pull the flame away. If it continues to burn... bad, bad, bad.

CHAD


CHAD
EddieDove
Chad,

There are several aspects of your entry that I really liked.

First, you took a novel approach to the fluid bed roaster at home. I remember when you started working on this and would ask questions. I am sure glad you persisted. Grin

Second, and I do hope you take this the right way, is the fact that it is elegantly simple. That aspect alone opens it up to a large group of fellow home roasters that could duplicate your design. s:2
Third, in comparison to most fluid bed roasters on the market, is the large batch size. c:1

Well done, Chad! I hope you will keep yours updated and continue to detail your modifications and improvements

Congratulations! s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2
Edited by EddieDove on 08/17/2007 11:09 AM
Respectfully,

Eddie Dove

The South Coast Coffee Roaster
vita non est vivere sed valere vita est
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Reference
http://southcoast...gspot.com/
seedlings
Eddie, you're too kind. How could I take anything you said in a wrong way? My intention was to have something that another roaster could either recreate or improve (BTW, I kept all the templates for each metal part when I remade with aluminum, in case someone want's a copy). I was confident that simplicity was necessary, and I troubleshoot telephone communications equipment on a daily basis, and it's nearly always the simple solution that works best.

I have in mind some complications to add into the roaster, but, time will tell. I don't know when I'll get around to it once the RK arrives! I may never modify again...well...um... that's not exactly my M.O. B)

This IS the result from help and suggestions you and the other Admins provided me. I may not have actually implemented this or that suggestion, but each one made me think harder about it.

Blessings and thanks,
CHAD
Edited by seedlings on 08/17/2007 11:02 AM
ttriff
This is surprisingly similar to the fluid-bed roaster in my local Whole-Foods.

It has a tall glass cylinder (8"X 20"?) that's clamped between stainless piping. The glass is held in place and sealed by clamps at the top and bottom that have a section of stainless rod at each of 4 corners. (this would eliminate the need for adhesive and facilitate a quick change if the glass is broken)

I watched them do a roast last week. No profile at all. The machine was simply set to achieve a specific bean temp. In this instance the beans were heated to 418 degrees then automatically cooled to 200F. The machine shuts off when the beans are 200F. The beans were then dumped into an open bottom bin that has slow speed fans pulling room temp air through it.
ttriff attached the following image:
CloseUp2[499].jpg

Edited by ttriff on 09/05/2007 12:21 PM
seedlings
I like that one! I'd love to see one of those in action. It may actually use more energy than mine Grin !!! Your pic looks a lot like a Sivetz roaster. Check them out here:

http://sivetzcoff...ass%20tube

The Sivetz site was another one I looked over again and again. I sure appreciate your comments. I have Ideas for generation 2 model, but I've been using the new R&K BBQ drum roaster and still trying to decide if I like it better than the forced air. I really think there is a difference. I just haven't quite decided which I prefer.

Thanks!!!!
CHAD
rcwarship
Heya Chad,
Very cool, I like it.
I don't have my drum roaster done yet, but I can't help thinking about a fluid bed roaster & found your build. Do you by chance know what the cfm is on that leaf blower?
Thanks,
Jon
Tell me and I forget, show me and I remember, involve me and I understand.
seedlings

Quote

rcwarship wrote:
Heya Chad,
Very cool, I like it.
I don't have my drum roaster done yet, but I can't help thinking about a fluid bed roaster & found your build. Do you by chance know what the cfm is on that leaf blower?
Thanks,
Jon


No I don't. It's a "120mph" leaf blower... not real helpful. Wish I'd known about timer-triac circuits when I built this.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
rcwarship

Quote

seedlings wrote:

No I don't. It's a "120mph" leaf blower... not real helpful. Wish I'd known about timer-triac circuits when I built this.

CHAD


Thanks for the response, it opened up a new avenue of thought. I see that you built a triac circuit. What I couldn't quite figure out is what they are used for. Would they be good for:
DC motor speed control?
AC motor speed control?
Electronic heater control?
Gas solenoid control?
Inquiring minds want to know.
I have a DC motor that I would like to rotate at a snails pace, if the circuit would do that it'd be awesome. If not, can you suggest another circuit that I could build?
I need to manually dump the beans in my drum project & figure that a slow rotating acme thread shaft for a dump mechanism would be awesome.
Thanks Again,
Jon
Tell me and I forget, show me and I remember, involve me and I understand.
seedlings
The device cycles the AC power on and off at a variable rate. Universal motors are what they're meant for, like a Router or a Drill.

Yes as a electric heater control, or light dimmer.

The on-off timer is a simple 555 chip circuit, which tells a Triac chip to allow or disallow the AC to flow.

This won't work for your DC slow-turn setup. *If* lowering the DC voltage will slow the turning speed, then I do have a circuit for a Variable Voltage Regulator for DC that I use in Vacuum Tube Guitar amps to turn down the high DC voltage.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
Unta
Chad.. this thing is AWESOME!.. pure innovation.. love it!
Sean Harrington
educate.
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