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New from GC I'm looking for the starting profiles
ChicagoJohn

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Quote

pandiani wrote:

...But with the beans inside, the temperature is normally higher or lower?


Should be higher, because airflow is limited by the beans.
That's why when exit is full of chaff you have fire risk.
But you can't measure inside temperature, what you see on display is exhaust temp.

Would be better if designers provide also an input TC, and a low hysteresis thermostat...


Wow... If that's the case, I wonder if there would be a way to install a small bead K thermocouple into the hot air inlet that you could at least monitor with separate digital meter. The temperature difference between inlet and outlet would then be an indication of potential blockages; e.g., chaff.
So many beans; so little time....
 
John Despres
Good morning!

The temperature of hot air inlet of the GC won't be much help. It's one temp all the time. The heater cycles on and off to maintain your chosen temp.

J
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
John Despres

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Check this thread for the universal roast recipe.
https://forum.hom...post_66687

Please be aware though that "set mm minutes at CCC celsius" in Gene language can fool you... is not exactly what some people understand.
When you set a temperature on Gene display, it actually means: "start blowing constant 250 C hot air into glass cylinder, until the exhausted air temperature reach CCC, then keep there by pulsing hot air heater on-off (200-250 C) for mm minutes"


Yep, there it is... Should have read the thread first

J
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
renatoa

Quote

John Despres wrote:

Good morning!

The temperature of hot air inlet of the GC won't be much help. It's one temp all the time. The heater cycles on and off to maintain your chosen temp.

J


That's the next step of those brave enough to mod Gene: install a power variator on the heater ! Grin
If you was been able to teardown to the heater level, in order to place an ET TC, then adding a variable power box on the relay contacts is not rocketry...
 
pandiani
In fact I had read but among the many information read, and the translation ... (I'm Italian) probably something I lost on the street.
For me it is not missile ... much moreGrin
knowing that the temperature is the one that blows at the exit of the room (discharge temperature) I can not understand why the difference between what you pre-select on the display (230) is the desired temperature, while 208 is the actual temperature that was in able to reach, this with beans inside, (230gr.), while with the empty room doing a test, I managed to hit the temperatures and times of the profile (which I enclose below)
pandiani attached the following image:
foto_profilo.jpg
 
renatoa
This is indeed a good point... and can't reply without knowing the Gene heat pulsation logic...
 
John Despres

Quote


That's the next step of those brave enough to mod Gene: install a power variator on the heater ! Grin
If you was been able to teardown to the heater level, in order to place an ET TC, then adding a variable power box on the relay contacts is not rocketry...


Now you're into territory I don't fully understand.

But...

The heater is a pretty sensitive unit. I rebuilt several when I was roasting with mine. In the end I moved on to a Quest M3. Both of my GC roasters are stored away for future playing.

I wonder if raising the temperature will burn out the heater that much sooner, forcing the unit beyond it's designed capacity? Keep in mind I ran perhaps 2000 roasts through mine. Some heater burnout could occur.

Roast on.
JD
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
renatoa
Raising temperature in which context ?

Replacing thermostat with a variator will not raise average temperature, but will keep constant instead on-off.
Pulsing is worse for a heater life than maintaining it permanently at ... say 80%.
On-off means dilatation and contractions several dozens for a roast, while a proportional control means a single mild wattage during the whole roast.
 
pandiani
Here is a situation, the GC has a 240V power supply, while the voltage here in Italy is 220V. This causes the temperature does not rise as it should in the right time. What do you recommend?
Edited by pandiani on 09/23/2018 2:39 AM
 
renatoa
This is indeed a situation... that equates to 20% less power than designed.

The most non-intrusive solution would be a self-transformer, but bulky and costly at 1000W...
https://www.ebay....2862195775

With some technical skills my take would be modify the heater, by shortening the wire according to voltage, if not an encapsulated build.
 
pandiani
I have some technical skills, in the past I modified a Popper with fan and heat regulation, after having bypassed the safety of the max temperature that was 180 ? C, but I was guided in the details. But is it right to intervene on a new GC? Do I lose the guarantee?
 
renatoa
Sure, warranty gone without doubt... even if case screws are not sealed, a heater surgery can't pass unnoticed.
Unless they have an universal heater, with multiple poles for various voltages, and voltage is user customisable... worth asking the manufacturer.
 
renatoa
Found here how voltage influence the power and roasting times... quite dramatic I would say...

http://coffeetime...-gene-cafe
 
pandiani
I have already sent an email to genecafe, let's see when and how they respond. Actually, the tension has a lot to do, and having a GC by service is really bad
 
renatoa
An alternative would be to jump in the naturals bandwagon Grin
They want a lot less heat and longer development than washed coffee, FC past 10 minutes is normal (and desirable) for a natural.
 
pandiani
I do not like having to adapt after spending this money. I wait for an answer from the seller and from Gene hoping for a solution. I do not like the self-transformer as a solution but it is a possibility, but the modification of the heater what it consists of?
Edited by pandiani on 09/23/2018 10:48 AM
 
renatoa
Remove some turns from the heater coil... more exactly 16% (220/240)^2)
Resulting smaller resistance will increase the current the right amount to deliver same power as 240V.
 
pandiani

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Remove some turns from the heater coil... more exactly 16% (220/240)^2)
Resulting smaller resistance will increase the current the right amount to deliver same power as 240V.



Wow renatoa
It seems pretty easy ... in words ...
Is it really that easy?
Now I understand why compared to the VAC you told me ... cheaper
Have you already done it?
The problem is understanding when I get to remove 16%
Edited by pandiani on 09/23/2018 1:29 PM
 
renatoa
I did it on other roasters, where 1500W of a hotgun style blower was too much for 250 grams.
I can't say how easy it is until I don't see the heater case opened.
You can see here at 2:20 the teardown of a Gene to the heater level.
https://youtu.be/...qL0o?t=140
Inside that metal case there is a wire coil similar with what you can see inside a hot gun.
https://s-media-c...86c11d.jpg
You count the coil turns, compute 16%, cut the wire and redo the connections. Simple... in words Grin
 
pandiani
the first video I already learned by heart, two days I realized that I have to get my hands on the heater. Consider that I have also planned to replace the heater with a 230 volt one, so I have already considered spending money on a new one, but if I can change it ... better





I found a picture of the heater open
pandiani attached the following image:
schermata_2018-09-24_alle_095024.png

Edited by pandiani on 09/24/2018 2:52 AM
 
renatoa
Hmmm... difficult to count such spaghetti... an ohmmeter must be used.

They should foreseen this issue and design the heater for an average voltage, 230V, which is actually the de facto standard...
 
pandiani
I contacted the seller who told me that he will contact Gene Caff? for greater clarity, but he also told me that he intends to send one 230 volts for free, but wants back the 240V one. It seems very correct, considering that the mistake was mine at the start.
Do you think I can solve 100% with one at 230Volt?
Will I finally have a GC with the temperature like yours?
Edited by pandiani on 09/24/2018 4:20 AM
 
renatoa
230 vs 240v is only 10% loss... still not full power, but better.
The temperature should be enough at 1200W... the 1500W blower that I moded output was way more than 300 C degrees, and needed a massive voltage drop, to 72% power, in order to calm it down to 270 C.
If Gene seller was been so kind I would bite the offer, and would take the replacement dismount opportunity to place a TC in the hot air path.
The input temperature would help me more to drive a roast than the exhaust.
 
pandiani
Now I wait for the new heater to send me, and when I open the GC I would like to put a TC in the hot air route as you say.
I have a K-type TC where do you advise me to put it?
 
renatoa
Wondering what is the thing looking similar to a probe, in the video, connected with two blue leads... it looks like a TC, but could be a thermostat also, to detect overheating, if the airflow is reduced for whatever reason.

Anyway, somewhere in the neighbourhood of that "probe" I would place mine too.

Lots of inspiration here:
http://roasthacke...page_id=29
 
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