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 Fluid Bed Roaster Build - bye bye Heat Gun and Flour Sifter
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| CK |
Posted on 04/17/2020 6:07 PM
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 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 231 Joined: December 07, 2018 |
Quote jbrux4 wrote: I am trying to see the jump, but all I see is a gradual increase. I do not understand how you are seeing FC with that gradual of an increase. I do understand the point you are making though. I need to understand this, so perhaps provide additional points to consider with your example... I don't see any jump/flick on my roasts either. I believe it's is because of the roaster type we use... spouting fluid bed... there is too much airflow exiting the roaster, combined with a relatively small batch size (275g). It seems to me the temperature can't rise drastically because it is always being exchanged with new ET controlled air. Perhaps this jump is only a phenomenon of different types of roasters?
CK attached the following image:
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| renatoa |
Posted on 04/18/2020 1:58 AM
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 Administrator  Posts: 2498 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Quote CK wrote: I don't see any jump/flick on my roasts either. I believe it's is because of the roaster type we use... spouting fluid bed... there is too much airflow exiting the roaster, combined with a relatively small batch size (275g). It seems to me the temperature can't rise drastically because it is always being exchanged with new ET controlled air. Perhaps this jump is only a phenomenon of different types of roasters? It is there, maybe flattened by your smoothing, possible more aggressive than mine. Check attached, where I highlighted the small hump. Mine could be more proeminent perhaps due to the fact I am using other RoR computation method than original TC4 code, a Savitzky?Golay derivative, whose main advantage is that it tends to preserve features of the distribution such as relative maxima, minima and width, which are usually 'flattened' by other averaging techniques (like a moving average filter, in original TC4) To be more clear, below you have the sequence of RoR values I am watching on the TC4 display, that signals me the start of FC. 9:36 - a normal declining RoR 8 8 8 8 8 8 7 7 7 7 7 7 9:48 - declining stop 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 9:56 - bump 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 10:05 - declining resume, back to normal trend 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 6 6 10:26 ... Without those RoR 9 values would be harder to detect the real start, indeed, because instead a bump would be a long, 27 seconds, plateau of value 8, but the first 9 is what I am hunting, to trigger FC button press.
renatoa attached the following image:
Edited by renatoa on 04/18/2020 2:10 AM |
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| Ooij01 |
Posted on 04/18/2020 10:19 AM
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Newbie  Posts: 21 Joined: June 25, 2018 |
Quote jbrux4 wrote: This makes the need for accurate temps more of a necessity. However, the cost and work in trying to do so just isn't in my cards right now. My next action will be to split the heat pipe into two separate pieces with each piece having its own element. I will also think about a bean dump or charge of some sort. I've currently got a setup using two separate elements as well and was wondering how you were planning on connecting the two elements together using triclamp pipes. Had a look at this and thought it might work out well. https://www.aliex...web201603_ Edited by JackH on 04/18/2020 1:00 PM |
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| jbrux4 |
Posted on 04/19/2020 6:54 PM
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 1/4 Pounder  Posts: 139 Joined: October 26, 2019 |
Quote jooi123 wrote: Quote jbrux4 wrote: This makes the need for accurate temps more of a necessity. However, the cost and work in trying to do so just isn't in my cards right now. My next action will be to split the heat pipe into two separate pieces with each piece having its own element. I will also think about a bean dump or charge of some sort. I've currently got a setup using two separate elements as well and was wondering how you were planning on connecting the two elements together using triclamp pipes. Had a look at this and thought it might work out well. https://www.aliex...web201603_ Mine will be in line. 1.5" diameter pipe at 6" long, silicone gasket, 1.5" diameter pipe at 6" long, silicone gasket then roast chamber. Each 6" pipe will have an element. Each 6" pipe will have egress for the power cables. Each pipe will have a hanger to suspend the elemetns in the pipe. Each pipe will have a full sleeve of mica. R/
Jared |
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| jbrux4 |
Posted on 04/19/2020 7:05 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 139 Joined: October 26, 2019 |
I pushed my roaster to a limit today. Because I did a multiple roast session, I started at 19oz (538g, my previous high) and stepped up 2oz each roast. I skipped 27 (765g) and went straight from 25 (709g) to 29 (822g) because I was feeling frisky. The 29oz roast was inconsistent, so I stepped it back down to 25oz to maintain an even roast profile. I would start at around 45% blower and step down to around 25% at the end of roast. I never exceeded 92% element. Times and steps were consistent with each roast as well. As CK mentioned, I had some chaff escape because of how my jar is situated on my cyclone. Some being acceptable considering A 7.5 lb. yield roast session. I will try a larger jar first to create more distance between the bottom of the cyclone and the bottom of the jar. If that doesn't work, I will figure out a way to lower the lid further down the cyclone wall. IF you are taking orders on your design CK, I'll gladly buy one! Edited by jbrux4 on 04/19/2020 7:52 PM R/
Jared |
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| jbrux4 |
Posted on 04/27/2020 7:01 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 139 Joined: October 26, 2019 |
I have the roaster at a somewhat presentable state now. It is on it's cart, and I have the top section hanging via balustrade cable so I can detach and reattach the top portion by myself with little hassle. My goal with the top is to have it vent directly outside via an exit port/vent through the garage - but, I need to buy a house before I start doing crazy stuff like that. I have ideas for charge and dump that I can't execute because I don't have the tools or the know-how. I will be able to network and meet people in this new area once the social distancing thing relaxes. Anyways - I am really going to roll with this set-up until I can get to something major for the charge/dump. Things to do still: - Separate heat pipe into two lengths, one length for each element - Switch out the glass mason jar for a SS jar (I fear the glass bottle getting shot down and exploding - I am bare foot a lot and don't want shards of glass in my legs and feet - besides, I know the thing works and don't necessarily need to see the chaff cycloning). - Charge port - Dump port - Building exhaust port - Accurate temps to then use TC4/Artisan to full extent - Accurate temps to Bluetooth module with Roastlogger With Ethiopian Yirgacheffe, Panama Boquete, East Timor - Organic, African Burundi - Washed, and Papua New Guinea - Organic in inventory, I have no shortage any time soon to prevent me from roasting. I am completely happy with what I have built, and even if I don't do any of the other things I mentioned above, I still have one heck of a roaster. Much thanks to all people who inspired, helped, or just had a tidbit of knowledge buried in a post - this could not have been done without Homeroasters.org.
jbrux4 attached the following image:
R/
Jared |
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 04/27/2020 7:07 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 101 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
What a machine. I'm always so impressed to see true DIY roasters on here. I bet it is a neat feeling to tune in roasts with your own roaster! |
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| JackH |
Posted on 04/27/2020 7:13 PM
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 Administrator Posts: 1809 Joined: May 10, 2011 |
Nice job building that roaster!
---Jack
KKTO Roaster. |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 04/28/2020 1:55 AM
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Administrator Posts: 2498 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Is there any technical reason to have all the piping sections so long, resulting so tall build? For instance why not having the chaff collecting jar at the level of the red cabinet? My FB dream machine would be something of the compactness of a filter coffee machine, something like a Nesco: pump in the filter machine water compartiment location, popper style heater in the base, beans in a glass carafe, chaff collecting in the coffee filter compartiment location, above carafe. 250-333 grams would be enough for a household appliance. Dreaming ?  |
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| CharcoalRoaster |
Posted on 04/28/2020 8:55 AM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 634 Joined: April 13, 2012 |
OGH actually built something of what you're describing Renatoa -- except in a commercial brewer instead of home counter top one. Too big for your dreams?  |
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| jbrux4 |
Posted on 04/28/2020 2:12 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 139 Joined: October 26, 2019 |
Quote renatoa wrote: Is there any technical reason to have all the piping sections so long, resulting so tall build? For instance why not having the chaff collecting jar at the level of the red cabinet? The intake filter and silencer adds height, but I am so glad I got that thing. it worked out great, and it supports the weight of everything above. I have much more head room in term of lofting beans, so there is no detriment to having it. Moving up from there, I have an additional 1.5" that could get shaved off if I had just one connection from the intake to the blower. Right below the blower, I have, from the first shipped roast chamber/sight glass that was broken, the bottom flange. I added this in because it coincidentally fit the blower housing almost perfectly. This added a little bit of height. The blower and then the blower chamber. The blower chamber is a Bain Marie pot that had to be a specific diameter. The pot is about 3.5" too tall, but it fit diameter wise - so I went with it. So, that is additional height. Above the Bain Marie Pot (hidden by the red cart) is the top flange of the first broken roast chamber/sight glass. I did this so that I could use the part as well as the turnbuckles to tighten the top and bottom flanges together. Using this added a little height. The heat pipe is 12" because the elements are in line. I have a perf plate and then a screen in the short section above the heat pipe. I did this so that I could detach the roast chamber to dump the beans. This added a little height. The 10" straight extension above the sight glass is because I kept loosing beans with bigger charges during roast and especially when trying to cool down after the roast. I can still get beans to fly out the top at around 60% blower. The top curved extension is there for a smooth curve into the reducer and the cyclone. Internal surfaces are smooth all the way into the chaff collector so nothing can get hung up and potentially catch fire. I wanted the chaff collector up and out of the way, so I just left it up there. Basically, when I started, I said that this would evolve throughout the build, and it definitely did. From this evolving method of building this, I worked through several issues while fixing some of those and creating others for me down the road. I have ideas on how to make this thing more convenient, but, as I said previously, I am plenty capable to lift, balance, attach, and detach things. I can go from being told to roast a new batch to having it literally done in 18 minutes. I would do several things differently if I were to go back and start again. To answer the question, I technically don't want beans escaping when I roast or cool down, so I added the extension. Also, my eventual goal is to have that curved part at the top go into a vent to the outside. My brain just kept everything up high. So, I guess, technically, I did not want to see the other options available and did it because that is how I saw it. R/
Jared |
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| Husamka |
Posted on 05/04/2020 9:13 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 56 Joined: September 16, 2016 |
I need your advice, which of these attached RCs design is better for beans circulation for 500-700gr capacity?
Husamka attached the following images:
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| jbrux4 |
Posted on 05/06/2020 5:33 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 139 Joined: October 26, 2019 |
Quote Husamka wrote: I need your advice, which of these attached RCs design is better for beans circulation for 500-700gr capacity? I can only give you what I know from my experience, and I have only experienced the conical one combined withy a powerful blower. I have "0" issues with bean circulation with my set-up. I have a lot of head room to go further, but that is prob in most part to my blower and not necessarily the design of the chamber. I mean, it is a combination of everything that gets you to a sweet spot or a range that can work well. In other words, it is the sum of all the parts and with their interactions, dependencies, and reactions. R/
Jared |
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| Husamka |
Posted on 05/07/2020 11:41 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 56 Joined: September 16, 2016 |
Thank you Jared, for your clarification. |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 07/18/2020 2:49 AM
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Administrator Posts: 2498 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Quote renatoa wrote: My FB dream machine would be something of the compactness of a filter coffee machine, something like a Nesco: pump in the filter machine water compartiment location, popper style heater in the base, beans in a glass carafe, chaff collecting in the coffee filter compartiment location, above carafe. 250-333 grams would be enough for a household appliance. Dreaming ? Quote CharcoalRoaster wrote: OGH actually built something of what you're describing Renatoa -- except in a commercial brewer instead of home counter top one. Too big for your dreams? Some guys in Korea dreaming like me... https://www.kicks...ee-roaster |
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| CK |
Posted on 07/20/2020 11:49 AM
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1/2 Pounder Posts: 231 Joined: December 07, 2018 |
Interesting. Good looking machine, but only a 120 gram charge... I'd have to roast every 1.5 days to keep up with household needs. Also, no smoke mitigation unless you put it under a range hood... that could be an issue for some, especially with back to back roast sessions. |
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| jbrux4 |
Posted on 10/16/2020 3:23 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 139 Joined: October 26, 2019 |
Well, it has happened. I burnt out my elements. How it happened? I finshed a 24 oz green weight roast and went to dump the beans. During that course, I accidentally hit the element with my silicone gloves on. It turned up to 30 something percent. So, as I was coling down the beans with my back turned to the roaster, I smelled something after about 20 seconds. I turn, and there is a flame coming out the top of the heat pipe - like an oil lamp wick kind of fire. I immediately turned the elements to 0 and unplugged them. I then turned on the blower to cool it all down. The flame shot up for a second, but it went out almost immediately. The SS pipe got that high heat color change. The element wires were sagging and almost broke the circuit, but, through it all, there was no electrical arcing or sparking. The 12awg wires feeding the element were fine, as they were high heat wires with fiberglass shielding. The mica insulation in the pipe withstood it all. I was gonna wait to redo the heat pipe until an element naturally ceased to operate, but this issue has become an opportunity to do it sooner. I already had the two lengths of pipe and 1 element. I got another element from a Grainger pick up spot. I have also contacted a retired machinist in the neighborhood to try and get some holes drilled in the pipe for the wiring and thermocouple placement. The ET exposed juction thermocouple was near, if not in the flame, but it still performs. I've tested it against an external thermocouple and the results are the same. The life of the thermocouple may have been shortened, but it still operates. All of this happened shortly after reading about CKs heater safety circuit - https://homeroast...post_72328, and I thought, "Yeah, that would be nice to have, but I've roasted a hundred times and all is well." Well, things happen. Things somehow find a way to go wrong. I'll be doing a deeper dive into this to see if it is doable on my rig. Also, originally, I wanted to have switches to turn off the elements once done with a roast instead of just turning down the dial - a little extra insurance and control - but I was already too deep into the electrical box to "want" to switch it up. I should have. The heat pipe(s) are now simplified as compared to my 1st iteration. Less holes because I don't need the rods holding an element in place. The elements do not move or have any jiggle without the rods. Also, instead of a coupling to screw the element into, I am going with bulkhead nuts to tighten the element to the pipe. So, the plan for the heat pipes is attached. It is a simple change of design that allows me ease and flexibility with replacing/fixing anything. 
jbrux4 attached the following images:
Edited by jbrux4 on 10/16/2020 3:47 PM R/
Jared |
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| allenb |
Posted on 10/16/2020 8:00 PM
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 Administrator Posts: 3650 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Doh! I hate it when that happens, My favorite safety setup is having the electricity leaving the blower switch feed the input to the switch that powers the heating elements Or, in cases where the heating elements can be out of the air circuit path altogether, an air pressure proving microswitch powering a relay. Glad to hear it was contained! 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Husamka |
Posted on 10/18/2020 9:25 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 56 Joined: September 16, 2016 |
Maybe these Ceramic Insulation Tubes are useful for you. I bought it for the same purpose. same 2x6" with the same heater. just you need to drill 1mm to pass any bar covered by these ceramic. https://www.aliex...5613%23478 |
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| jbrux4 |
Posted on 10/25/2020 2:22 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 139 Joined: October 26, 2019 |
Quote Husamka wrote: Maybe these Ceramic Insulation Tubes are useful for you. I bought it for the same purpose. same 2x6" with the same heater. just you need to drill 1mm to pass any bar covered by these ceramic. https://www.aliex...5613%23478 Thanks Husamka. Anything ceramic, in my early research, seems to have always been expensive, and these aren't. R/
Jared |
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| jbrux4 |
Posted on 10/25/2020 2:36 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 139 Joined: October 26, 2019 |
Well team, I am back to roasting. I just did 5 consecutive roasts varying between 16oz & 21 oz roasted weight between City to Vienna: (1) Panama Boquete (2) African Burundi (3) Ethiopian Yirgacheffe (4) Papua New Guinea (5) East Timor The ability to work on a single element at a time is a great maintenance upgrade. Why I didn't do that initially, who knows? I shouldn't need to do anything with the elements until they die a natural death or I cause them heat stroke. I have determined that I would rather roast without the cyclone because I just can't hear the bean development/cracks. I am thinking about a vacuum/suction above the roast chamber to suck in all the chaff. Always learning and trying to progress. There are some cool builds that have happened or are ongoing. I am incredibly thankful to the Homeroasters.org group for freely sharing all their info. I am sure it has helped all who dive into this craft and take a peek at the creations and info in this site. R/
Jared |
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| hstan4 |
Posted on 02/27/2022 9:39 PM
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Newbie Posts: 21 Joined: July 16, 2020 |
Hey Jared, Just discovered this awesome thread and have learned an immense amount from your build! Im looking to build one similar and am curious your thoughts on the tri clamp roasting chamber size. I hadnt realized just how much of the beans would physically be in the conical reducer in this setup and am wanting to ensure I balance the heat from the heating element as well as getting a RC size that ensures the beans are making enough contact in the chamber. I saw you mention the size of your reducer go from 1.5 to 4, would you recommend a 4 sight glass or maybe closer to 3 for roasting about a pound of coffee per batch? Ideally, doing more than a pound would be great, but it seems the heating element setup is a little easier for a smaller batch size of near a pound as opposed to two. |
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