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 Tri-Clamp Roaster
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| jessep |
Posted on 01/26/2020 8:53 AM
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 Newbie  Posts: 33 Joined: January 05, 2019 |
So I got sick of the 100g capacity of my gutted popcorn maker and wanted something a bit more powerful. Plus I needed a project. I didn't know what to do for the roasting chamber as I recently moved to Germany (from Colorado) and gave my bake a around I was holding onto to a friend. Then I found this distillation column on Aliexpress for only 36 euros:  It's kind of huge, but it seemed close enough. I'm also a little worried about the silicone seals, but I can always take them out if they start to burn up into the coffee beans and replace them with something better. The heater is from a 1900w heating element from an Amazon heat gun stuck inside of the 1.5" tri-clamp tube with a wrap of mica to hopefully not electrocute anyone.  The fan is a "Fern" 400w (240v) air blower from Amazon. It's all wired together with a TC4 from Greencardigan, a ZCD, and a Crydom random fire SSR.  I accidentially destroyed my heater SSR, so the best I've done so far is a loft test without the heater on. Did about 25og of beans without much of an issue.  Like my construction method? Several things went wrong at this point. First, the poor little cyclone separator I got worked well at separating the chaff and random dirt from the beans, but there's a lot of back pressure from the little guy that's making it tough to loft the beans. In fact, when I took it out, I blasted a bunch of beans out the top when the pressure decreased. oops. Second, its my plan to blast the beans into the chaff collection to remove them might not work, but I haven't gotten full power from the fan yet. Which brings my to the final problem. The ZCD/TC4 combo is working well above 25%, but I'm getting weird skipping when I'm lower. Anything I can do there? There was a resistor capacitor combo in between the live and neutral that made it work slightly better, but not a lot. It seems to work well at higher speeds. https://photos.ap...A3CpZpUR5A It doesn't sound super happy, and I think I'll likely be roasting at pretty low power. Thoughts? |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 01/26/2020 9:30 AM
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Administrator  Posts: 3005 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Link to distillation column please, search don't return anything useful. Regarding weird skipping, is this related to fan or heater? Recently posted here some notes from my experience, could be a similar issue. https://forum.hom...post_70426 If issue is for heater, I would try CONFIG_PWM mode instead ZCD/ICC and see what happens. |
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| jessep |
Posted on 01/26/2020 9:47 AM
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Newbie Posts: 33 Joined: January 05, 2019 |
Sure thing: https://www.aliex...1024S7Q23c It took a while to get here in DE, but it was remarkably well packed and seems like pretty nice quality. It's the fan control, and I found a few things to try in there. Thanks for the link. Quote Mains is correct (60Hz, I'm in the USA). I think I figured it out - I had 5 volts going to my ZCD from the TC4, per https://cdn.hackaday.io/files/1597066...XD-THT.pdf. But your (still excellent), quick start guide PDF only showed ground and signal going to your ZCD. I disconnected my 5V wire, and now it is much much smoother. I get one blip very occasionally, but its much much smoother and feels more like "full fan speed" at 100% as well. Quote Also try connecting the TC4 ground to mains ground. I've had motor pulsing issues in two controllers that were solved by grounding the TC4. Edited by JackH on 01/26/2020 2:42 PM |
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| jessep |
Posted on 02/02/2020 6:09 AM
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Newbie Posts: 33 Joined: January 05, 2019 |
Well I prepared a big post about my first attempt using the roaster after a number of setbacks (lets call them opportunities to improvise). Then my crappy German Internet screwed up and I lost the whole thing before I could post it. So I gave up, writing is hard. Short story is, I was struggling with the ZCD/TC4 method of fan control and then also the Tindie PWM/ ZCD/Triac module which I think is just DOA. So I hooked the blower up to it's old handle/speed controller that I was holding onto "just in case". I was running out of coffee, and it's Sunday in Germany so of course nothing is open to buy coffee from for such an emergency. Things I learned: 1. I needed the back pressure from cyclone separator to get enough temperature out of the element for 200G. Could likely do a fair amount more than 200g with the back pressure. 2. The PLA adapter for the separator lasted even less time than I thought it would, and I ended up holding the whole mess together with oven mitts for the roast. 3. You can just sandwich a thermocuple in the silicon tri-clamp gasket for BT, and it works pretty well. 4. FC is much harder to hear with this setup, but when I'm less panicked and not holding it all together with oven mitts it'll be fine. 5. I can blast 200G out of the top at full power, into a jar. Exactly what I was hoping I could do. Need to take the separator off for that though. Sh!@show:  The profile. You can see at the end where I installed the separator and the temp started to shoot up almost too fast to control.  Link to a photo Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/46FNgpXx8JfoutXP8 |
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| jessep |
Posted on 02/10/2020 11:11 AM
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Newbie Posts: 33 Joined: January 05, 2019 |
Finished up another roast, things worked out a bit better with some more preparation. Still hard to hear 1st crack, but I did. I'm going to move the temp probes a bit. I'm going to add an inlet temp probe, and then have all three just for fun. Perhaps I can measure temperature difference for fun. I tried to eject the beans at full power, but the giant sight glass I have is too big. I'm thinking I might go shorter, perhaps 3" by 140cm or so. We'll see, I can eject the beans if I remove the cyclone separator and open up the flow a bit though. Video: https://photos.ap...3YW4Fj1Bi8 I still had issues with my TC4, I'm thinking I might try a new arduino as it's a less expensive option than trying a new TC4. This time the temperatures went to -1 right when the roast was done so it wasn't that big of a deal. 
jessep attached the following image:
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| CharcoalRoaster |
Posted on 03/17/2020 4:23 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 640 Joined: April 13, 2012 |
Jessep - looking at your RC have you had any issues with beans getting stuck, not circulating, getting caught in the last couple of inches of the reducer? In my new build I'm hoping to implement a butterfly valve for bean dump purposes and was curious to see if this will create any hot spots or hang ups in the bean mass circulation With the 2" or so from the perf plate to the top of the fitting I'm unsure if that will circulate the bean mass or if whatever ends up near the perf plate will get stuck there? https://www.dropb...3.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropb....heic?dl=0 https://www.dropb...6.jpg?dl=0 |
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| jessep |
Posted on 03/22/2020 3:35 AM
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Newbie Posts: 33 Joined: January 05, 2019 |
Quote CharcoalRoaster wrote: Jessep - looking at your RC have you had any issues with beans getting stuck, not circulating, getting caught in the last couple of inches of the reducer? I haven't yet. I just has a mesh screen at the bottom, so there aren't really any spots for the beans to collect. I do notice a few catching on the orange silicone gaskets on the glass part of the chamber. I do have a slightly more uneven roast than my popper, but I'm not sure if it's the variance in the cheap beans I found at the local market or the machine. Very interested in the butterfly valve! This machine is pretty annoying to empty, especially with dense beans. |
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| Ooij01 |
Posted on 03/23/2020 9:26 AM
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Newbie Posts: 21 Joined: June 25, 2018 |
How've you put the thermocouples in there, also did you get the rest of your triclover parts from aliexpress as well? Looking to change up my roaster and this looks much cleaner |
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| jessep |
Posted on 03/23/2020 2:38 PM
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Newbie Posts: 33 Joined: January 05, 2019 |
I just sandwiched them between the roast chamber and the conical reducer for BT, and between the heater pipe and the reducer for ET. Works mostly ok, probably do some modifications to fix the weird offsets you can see in the last one. |
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| Ooij01 |
Posted on 03/24/2020 9:31 AM
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Newbie Posts: 21 Joined: June 25, 2018 |
Correct me if im wrong, you're RC base is a 3inch to 1.5inch conical reducer and your top is a 3inch to 1.5inch bowl reducer. Do you just have the heating element free sitting in the 1.5inch triclamp tube? |
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| jessep |
Posted on 03/24/2020 3:21 PM
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Newbie Posts: 33 Joined: January 05, 2019 |
Quote jooi123 wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, you're RC base is a 3inch to 1.5inch conical reducer and your top is a 3inch to 1.5inch bowl reducer. Do you just have the heating element free sitting in the 1.5inch triclamp tube? It's not really free, it's surrounded by mica and wedged in so hard I was afraid I was going to break it. The rest is correct!  The poorly attached cyclone separator is key though, it allows for 220ish gram batches with that heater. I think if I were to put in a more restrictive perforated plate that could also be a solution. Plan for the quarantine (not sick, yet) is to further insulate the heating tube and the RC base. As well as build a less janky adapter from the tri clamp tube to the separator. |
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| NewBean |
Posted on 03/24/2020 5:07 PM
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1/4 Pounder  Posts: 54 Joined: May 31, 2019 |
Nice build... i put a project together last year and had to stop due to the fact i was not able to figure out the heating element mounting that would work.. just started back into this project again. hows yours holding up? are you willing to share a few more pictures of the lower section of the build? |
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| Buildit |
Posted on 03/28/2020 7:15 PM
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Newbie Posts: 4 Joined: March 28, 2020 |
Jessep, I am also looking to build something like yours but have a couple of questions. Where did you buy the cyclone? is the RC a pyrex or? One comment on the bean load & unload, have you seen (near the end) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgDHWPh0QRw A Tri-clamp TEE with a cap atop (in place of the 180) and a 1" long tube to use as a Vacume- (Blower pressure out) for the beans, but may need to seal around where the 1" goes down in the 1.5" |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 03/29/2020 3:35 AM
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Administrator Posts: 3005 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
The cyclone looks like a frankenstenization of the Aluminium Cyclone Dust Separator, that can be found on eBay/Aliex, used by many of us, mentioned in other threads. Use the highlighted search terms if the link below is no more valid: https://www.ebay....3429776898 |
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| Buildit |
Posted on 03/29/2020 12:41 PM
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Newbie Posts: 4 Joined: March 28, 2020 |
Renatoa: thank you! I found it with your link, but not so easy to get here in the USA The spec I found on Joom Specification: Material: Aluminium Alloy Color: Silver Inner Diameter: approx. 25mm est 1" +/- Size: approx. 190*105 mm Not enough detail Just overall? The air volume: 45-70m3/h 30 to 40CFM +/- Wind pressure: 2-50 kpa Wind speed: 12-36m/s Matched Power: 250W Efficiency: 90-99% Not sure. 90 is bad 99 is pretty good Dust Particles: 8 um - 20 mm would be better to get down to 3um, 20mm golf ball? And Jessp I missed on the u-tube link, it should have been https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBMnw6Wwzi0 Sorry about that. Again Thanks Renatoa for the information, but from the spec. its seems a bit to small for my design 150 to 800g. I may wind up building one from a corny keg, with about hour of cutting and fitting and 30 min of welding but capable of 100cfm +/- |
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| jbrux4 |
Posted on 03/29/2020 1:23 PM
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 1/4 Pounder Posts: 139 Joined: October 26, 2019 |
I bought mine from: https://bigupgadg...74505.html I bought it months ago and it took a few weeks for delivery. R/
Jared |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 03/29/2020 2:13 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3005 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Quote 105 is diameter of the circle, without the three mounting ears. 190 is the overall height, 120 mm from the mounting circle down to exhaust hole. Quote Buildit wrote: Again Thanks Renatoa for the information, but from the spec. its seems a bit to small for my design 150 to 800g. I may wind up building one from a corny keg, with about hour of cutting and fitting and 30 min of welding but capable of 100cfm +/- I am using mine for 500 grams and more, connected to an 140 m3/h 20W exhaust fan, so their specs are simply bogus. I don't see any limiting factor for this cyclone other the capacity of the collector jar. I can't comment about the 3 microns requirement, what about a hepa filter on top of the cyclone? I don't feel the need for more filtering because above the exhaust fan is the stove hood. Sure, we can tinker anything, but the look... guess what led the the OP to the choice to use a tri-clamp, instead glass from a french-press, and funnel as stainless steel parts from a cocktail shaker ?  |
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| tofublock |
Posted on 03/31/2020 6:01 PM
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 Newbie Posts: 9 Joined: March 31, 2020 |
 Well, this is interesting. I started looking into components for a fluid bed roaster build and fairly quickly arrived at the tri-clamp system. Two quarantine days and a LOT of painful Aliexpress search queries later I have ordered almost all my parts just a few hours ago - and they look eerily like yours. Down to the heating element crammed into the 1.5" pipe ("Will it fit? I'll probably be able to make it fit, with appropriate force if need be.") Maybe I should have searched forums earlier, could have saved me some headache. :) Here's the parts I ordered: - Heating element https://www.aliex...09009.html - Tube 1.5" for heating element https://www.aliex...29764.html - Reducer 1.5" to 3" (opted for the bowl) https://www.aliex...21509.html - 3" Meshed gasket as "bed" https://www.aliex...10026.html (also got a 1.5", might work before the reducer as well) - Tube 3" with thermowell https://www.aliex...03344.html - 90mm glass tube 3", 122mm length https://www.aliex...25199.html - Aluminum cyclone https://www.aliex...16520.html - Some gaskets, clamps, mica paper What I'm missing (on paper) is the blower, bits of tubing here and there, a chaff bin. And then, once all the parts have arrived and are working well enough, a nice method of inserting and extracting the beans of course. I was initially thinking vacuum cleaner motor, but that seems like a bit of a hassle. What blower model do you have? Are you happy with it so far? I think the control issues could be solved by using something like this to reduce motor speed https://www.ebay....3593033976 Untested, but should properly "dim" AC motors without hiccups if various forums can be trusted. The regulator I linked to should be controllable via 0-5V analog voltage. What do you use as a "strainer" to keep the beans in the roasting chamber? A PTFE mesh like the one I ordered? I have to say, I'm very excited to have stumbled across this thread here - sheer luck. PS: Word of warning, never search Aliexpress for "tri-clamp thermowell nipple". Yes, that's what the exact part I ordered is called but no, Aliexpress has different ideas. Edited by JackH on 04/01/2020 7:09 AM |
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| tofublock |
Posted on 04/01/2020 2:01 AM
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Newbie Posts: 9 Joined: March 31, 2020 |
I found this, which looks very similar to yours, supposedly more power: https://www.amazo...07FN2PZ5R/ A DC motor like this https://www.bauha...p/26221384 would probably be easier to control, but I have no clue what current it draws and also whether the blower is strong enough. Thoughts? |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 04/01/2020 2:03 AM
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Administrator Posts: 3005 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
We should have a way to save valuable posts, as the above #18 ! |
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| tofublock |
Posted on 04/01/2020 2:36 AM
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Newbie Posts: 9 Joined: March 31, 2020 |
Quote The shopping list above was incredibly annoying to assemble, so even better if it comes handy to somebody else as well. Of course, finding Jesse's post BEFORE my dive down the rabbithole could have saved me a quite a bit of trouble. :) |
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| JackH |
Posted on 04/01/2020 5:21 AM
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 Administrator Posts: 1809 Joined: May 10, 2011 |
Post #18 is not going anywhere! Having a shopping list at all is a luxury! We appreciate you posting one. Edited by JackH on 04/01/2020 5:59 AM ---Jack
KKTO Roaster. |
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| allenb |
Posted on 04/01/2020 6:02 AM
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 Administrator Posts: 3858 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Nice list!  Everyone be sure to check out our parts and supplies list as well. Hoping most of the links still work but it's been a while since I tested them. If not, let us know and we'll update.
allenb attached the following image:
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Buildit |
Posted on 04/01/2020 9:10 PM
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Newbie Posts: 4 Joined: March 28, 2020 |
Thanks Renatoa (I guessed the cyclone spec. may be wrong) but I am looking to have the ability to do 100% recycle on the exhaust so 3um would be much much better for my setup (I will post pic and parts list when it done but still ordering parts and drawing plans and doing the math). First part arrived today the fan (which I need to add a cool section between the blades and motor) but it has a 145mm inlet which is much much bigger than than the 35mm outlet on the cyclone. I am looking to do up to 100% recirculation. I don't want to hijack this thread, for my cyclone ?'s But thanks AllenB for the parts link it has a couple of links I missed 1st time through |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 04/02/2020 4:12 AM
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Administrator Posts: 3005 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Do you have any design guidelines that relate cyclone size/power to the particle size ? I would feel much safer to use a filter, under a certain particle size, than rely on separation due to centrifugal force. Also, you can do recirculation with a heat exchanger setup, thus two complete separate airflows, instead recirculate the smoke/gases resulting from the roast. I don't expect nice flavors if roasting with second hand smoke... |
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