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Homeroasters - Home Roasting Coffee Community » BUILDING A ROASTER » BBQ Grill Roasters

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Page 2 of 3: 123

The R&K Drum Thread
seedlings	#26 Posted on 10/06/2007 11:51 AM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007	I haven't had any trouble with uneven roasts up to about 4 pounds. I haven't been past a vienna, though... and it's time to roast again! Moving the heat up closer was a big help to keep roasting times down to 15 min 1st crack with 4 pounds. I think that's pretty good. I'm liking this more and more, but winter's coming and I may have to get some pointers from Lynn (Kaffee Bitte)! CHAD


Kaffee Bitte	#27 Posted on 10/06/2007 9:52 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 613 Joined: May 11, 2007	What is the lowest temperature that you see in Kansas City during a winter? I can't imagine it would be anywhere near as low as it would be in Montana. Helena spends most of the winter below freezing with spells above and more than a few well into the negatives. Helena is in a valley just a few miles to the east of the continental divide, in the Rockies rain shadow. This sets up weeks on end where the temperatures in the valley are lower than 2,000 feet higher up on the divide. Inversion layers are not pleasant. Lynn "Some days it's spice, other days it's bitter dirt."
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sdcoffeeroaster	#28 Posted on 10/06/2007 10:59 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 85 Joined: September 30, 2007	Quote Dan wrote: David, about the temperature gradients while roasting: I don't think you are going to see uneven roasts. Drum roasts are even for the most part. Adding convection greatly improves eveness. I've noticed that there do seem to be some major temperature differences in a BBQ drum roaster. I notice a lot of people just measure up at the front, mid-drum. I guess this is probably OK if that's where the beans are. So that implies the drum should be turning in a way that the beans are pushed towards the front of the grill. My old grill was set up to push the beans towards the back. I did have a thermocouple at the front and two thermometers at the back, all mid drum. I found the front always lagged the back during the roast. I just added two thermocouples to a new larger grill and found exactly the same thing and decided the older smaller grill was going to work out better. So has anyone experimented with reversing drum rotation? Any opinions on which way is better? I found by removing and reversing the stator on my 64 rpm gear motor I can turn my drum either way so I may experiment soon. Oh and the roasts, even 5 lbs, are very even. I've done some work on the vanes and copied a bit from Joe Behmor and his new roaster with my latest drum. So there's lots of mixing. Fred Fresh Roast+, I-roast, and 2 BBQ roasters, one with IR back burner (Blue Ember grill from Fiesta) Espobar Brewtus II


sdcoffeeroaster	#29 Posted on 10/07/2007 11:27 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 85 Joined: September 30, 2007	OK, after some thought I think I've come to realize that my drum forces the hot air up at the back of the BBQ and down at the front, resulting in it being hotter at the back than at the front. I did some further experimentation and also realized that while it might be only 500 deg F at mid drum, it could be far hotter at the bottom of the drum. 100 deg or more hotter in fact. I tried adding some baffles that I thought would force the air into the drum more at the back and installed a couple of thermocouples at the back somewhat below this shelf like protrusion, which was at mid drum height. That's when I noticed how hot it was about 1/4-1/3 of the way up the drum (down below mid drum). In fact I found some wildly ranging temps left to right at times too. The thermcouples are just too fast for this and giving me info that has me a bit upset. I thought I was roasting at 500-520 F when in fact the beans routinely see more than that in the bottom of the drum close to the burners, a lot more. It can't be helping the roast quality. I'll probably end up going back to the two long thermometers I've used in the past and maybe some brickettes to block the direct flame from line of site with the drum and see how that works out. Has anyone ever spent the time and effort to look into this? Thanks Fred Fresh Roast+, I-roast, and 2 BBQ roasters, one with IR back burner (Blue Ember grill from Fiesta) Espobar Brewtus II


seedlings	#30 Posted on 10/09/2007 12:11 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007	Quote Kaffee Bitte wrote: What is the lowest temperature that you see in Kansas City during a winter? I can't imagine it would be anywhere near as low as it would be in Montana. Helena spends most of the winter below freezing with spells above and more than a few well into the negatives. Helena is in a valley just a few miles to the east of the continental divide, in the Rockies rain shadow. This sets up weeks on end where the temperatures in the valley are lower than 2,000 feet higher up on the divide. Inversion layers are not pleasant. Low temps in KC..? Well, weathermen around here are big into the "wind chill factor" so I'll go by that. We'll regularly see temps around +10 to -5 F with wind chills -10 to -30 on occasion. But I'm quite sure they're fewer and further between than in your winter wilderness. (But then there's 3 months of 98degrees with 98percent humidity in the summer.) Around here if you don't like the weather, just wait. We'll regularly see 35 and raining only to drop later in the day to zero, then its 1/2 inch of ice on everything and the trees and power poles are cracking over left and right. You can't walk to your mailbox. Heck, sometimes you can't open the garage door for the ice! You all get snow measured in yards up there, but we don't see much of that. CHAD


Kaffee Bitte	#31 Posted on 10/09/2007 6:45 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 613 Joined: May 11, 2007	Quote seedlings wrote: You all get snow measured in yards up there, but we don't see much of that. Actually Helena is about a half an inch of rain a year away from being considered high desert. We often go several months without any precipitaion at all. From the beginning of July until late September we only had about 1/4" of rainfall. In the winter we are lucky to get three or four inches at a time, with weeks of just cold and no snow. Helena is very much in the rain shadow of the continental divide. Just fifteen miles away and about 2000 feet higher (Helena's elevation is 3500 ft) on the continental divide it is common to see a foot of snow or more. These storms usually only bring poor dry Helena an inch or two. This all leads me to my point. Most of the winter my main opponents in roasting will be cold temperatures and high winds. Montana is called the Big Sky state and in the winter it is very apparent why. Few clouds and tons of blue skies. The wind also is a big problem up here. It is common to see winds of 50 mph or above several days straight. I can assure you from personal experience that these can be detrimental to a roast even on high temperature days. Lynn "Some days it's spice, other days it's bitter dirt."
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seedlings	#32 Posted on 10/25/2007 7:50 AM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007	I'm kind of frustrated. I roasted some colombian in the RK drum. I waited a week and then roasted more colombian in a popcorn popper and brewed it right away. I think the 30 minute old popcorn popper coffee tasted better than the week rested drum roast. So, I waited another week and roasted more in the popper,waited a day, then sampled it with the now 2 week rested drum roast... I still prefer the coffee from the popper?!? I have no cupping experience and have trouble describing exactly the taste difference. Anyone else have observations like this (or contrary)? CHAD


Dan	#33 Posted on 10/25/2007 8:47 AM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005	Chad, What you are tasting is the differences roaster and roasting profile are making. One isn't better than another, just different. Personally, I like Kenyans in an air roaster and Colombians in a drum. The popper brings out the citrus in the Kenyan and the drum brings out the chocolate in the Colombian. Dan
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seedlings	#34 Posted on 10/25/2007 1:13 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007	Hey Dan, how is that? Is it the faster heatup of the popper? If I had enough heat to get the same time/temp profile in the drum... would it taste the same, or is it the "drum" that makes the difference?


Kaffee Bitte	#35 Posted on 10/25/2007 7:39 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 613 Joined: May 11, 2007	I think that to create a similar profile in a drum roaster you would have to increase the speed of heat rise (probably by a considerable amount) as well as adding in a very High airflow. I can't imagine it would turn out exactly the same though. Others on here will probably have better advice about this than I. If you wanted to have a larger capacity air roaster I think the best route would be to build one specifically for that purpose. This is something I have been contemplating as a project for the upcoming spring and summer (by which time I will be done with my nursing degree). I am contemplating building a roaster capable of two pounds. This may be a very difficult thing to pull off though so we will see. I find that a lot of Central American coffees taste better to my taste buds from an air roaster. This is not to say that they aren't good from a drum profile. I just like the extra acid snap that air roasters really bring out. Then again the same coffees have enhanced sweetness from a drum, so there are always trade offs with the differing methods. Overall I tend to prefer the drum roasts as espresso especially. It also seems that I get more persistant crema out of a drum roasted bean. Then again though for those high acidity beans the air roast is usually more pleasant to me. Lynn "Some days it's spice, other days it's bitter dirt."
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ginny	#36 Posted on 10/25/2007 8:37 PM
Founder Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005	>>>Chad, What you are tasting is the differences roaster and roasting profile are making. One isn't better than another, just different. Personally, I like Kenyans in an air roaster and Colombians in a drum. The popper brings out the citrus in the Kenyan and the drum brings out the chocolate in the Colombian. Dan<<< Quote seedlings wrote: Hey Dan, how is that? Is it the faster heatup of the popper? If I had enough heat to get the same time/temp profile in the drum... would it taste the same, or is it the "drum" that makes the difference? say what Dan?? Chad it's the woman or man that makes the roast!!! I don't care what you roast it in... taste buds unite!!! s:8s:8s:8s:8:@:@:@B)B)


Dan	#37 Posted on 10/25/2007 8:38 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1662 Joined: October 24, 2005	The heating modes are different, convection versus conductance. Plus air roasters vent off smoke and chaff, which can change flavor, too. It boils down to what you like and what equipment you can get your hands on.
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ginny	#38 Posted on 10/25/2007 8:45 PM
Founder Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005	Quote Dan wrote: The heating modes are different, convection versus conductance. Plus air roasters vent off smoke and chaff, which can change flavor, too. It boils down to what you like and what equipment you can get your hands on. your kidding right Dan? Is it taste buds after all??? NO not that. ginny s:8s:8s:8s:8 all they way to the cup!!! and beyond. Ayn Rand speaks... "it is for the glory of the cup we taste."


seedlings	#39 Posted on 10/26/2007 10:52 AM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007	Well, it's been 20 days since I roasted about 4 pounds of this Colombian in the RK. THIS MORNING and not until this morning could I get the lingering hints of buttery chocolate I was hoping to have. Until just now it just had too much of a "black dirt" taste. Weird that it tastes so much different today versus yesterday. The sad part was that this is the last of that batch... CHAD


TimEggers	#40 Posted on 11/25/2007 2:53 PM
Newbie Posts: 28 Joined: February 01, 2007	Chad how is the RK Drum roasting coming along? I've been reading this thread for the first time and I can see why you may not like the coffee too much. Your roasting times seem way too long. I've been doing mostly one pound batches and hit a rapid first crack in 9 minutes and roll into second 5-8 minutes later. These times are important. Now my method is to preheat on high to 650F. I then add the drum and beans and I leave the roaster on high. I roast at 640F+ until first crack is about to start then I cut off my middle burner and reduce my two out burners to medium (grill air temp of 350F per thermocouple). I know your burner set-up is different but you can try hotter pre-first crack then lower afterwards. Some observations and questions for you: 1) What thermometer are you using? If its any analog post style get rid of it, mine is very slow to show temperature change and is most times 150F off of actual temps. 2) Don't worry about seeing the roast, better try to listen to the coffee and even better monitor the aromas. These will give you all the feedback you will need. As you speed things up these will be easier to detect. 3) Toss conventional wisdom aside and experiment. All grills are going to be different due to shape and design. For now focus on getting better times (which for you sounds like hotter). This will yield better coffee. 4) On my grill any heat diffuser was unneeded and actually made it harder to make on the fly temperature adjustments. Your mileage may vary. You can see my set-up in my signature link below. Good luck and enjoy the drum. It's the best home roasting device in my opinion and once you get the hang of it you'll never go back. Tim Eggers Tim's Coffee Pages CLICK HERE
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seedlings	#41 Posted on 11/25/2007 4:35 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007	Tim. Nice setup you have. Do you also compare what you roast to ... a popper or your soup can? EVERY time I compare, same roast levels I ALWAYS prefer the air roast over the drum. Usually it's a vast difference. Now - from your link - 700F? Wow. Maybe I don't let it heat up enough. I've thought about picking up some bricks or stepping stones to help hold the heat. There isn't anything in the grill to preheat, is there? You're preheating the metal lid and base (and air) to 700F, then holding that for 8 minutes. I can see where the 1C would show up much earlier than I get... which is consistently around 15 minutes. I'd LOVE to have 1C around 8 and 2C starting around 12. Here's my last roast... I tried to keep the temp lower, like Lynn and Eddie - where they talk about temps 450-500ish. Next, I'll try your incenerator preheat to just before 1C method (I mean that affectionately, of course;) ). I have to roast today... I'll let you know. Tasted sort of nutty... not peanut - maybe like sunflower seeds. I'll drink it. CHAD Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover


Kaffee Bitte	#42 Posted on 11/25/2007 5:21 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 613 Joined: May 11, 2007	Glad that you tried it Chad!! Even what seems like a complete SNAFU can be drinkable coffee. And now a note on my roasting method that I haven't remembered to mention until reading your post. I also do a preheat. Mine consists of pumping up the heat to full power for about five minutes. This usually has the heat in the upper 500's when I am ready to load the drum. Also when the roast is complete I leave the burners on to maintain heat before the next roast. This last step might not be required by you, but it sure is for my multiple roasts. Lynn "Some days it's spice, other days it's bitter dirt."
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TimEggers	#43 Posted on 11/25/2007 7:02 PM
Newbie Posts: 28 Joined: February 01, 2007	Something to keep in mind is that all of our grills are going to behave differently. On my setup high temps work great. Chad looking at your photos the beans look a little scorched or uneven. I'm curious how high above the burner does the drum actually sit? On mine the drum is up a few inches so a lack of a heat diffuser doesn't hurt the beans at all. Also are those photos from the earlier roast? Also I would be careful about adding too much mass to the roasting enviroment. I've found when roasting I need to go hot and fast to first then slow it down to draw out the later stages of the roast, if my grill was full of stones and the such I would imagine slowing down to be harder and less responsive. I'm sort of at a loss here because I've never used your grill and can only state what works for mine, but if long times and uneven looking beans are the issue I would think a diffuser would be in order this would allow higher flame setting for a higher grill ambient heat without scorching the beans themselves. Tim Eggers Tim's Coffee Pages CLICK HERE
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seedlings	#44 Posted on 11/26/2007 7:48 AM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007	Yes, both pics were the same batch. Well, I preheated the grill and drum for about 20 minutes. Yes, I have a turkey-fryer thermometer, analog with a max temp of 550F. So, I was over 550F. I don't have built in grill thermostat anymore, so I don't know what the high temp was. I loaded one mason jar full of green beans, which I think is close to 2 pounds. I left the flame on high until 1C which was 8:40! Did you hear me, 8:40! I killed the heat and lifted the lid until my turkey thermometer hit 460ish, then closed the lid. The temp wanted to fall a little more, so I sparked the burner back on and held the temp around 475F by lifting the lid until 2C snaps started at 11:00. I pulled and the roast looked great (but I don't have a pic). Thanks, Tim. I think the high preheat was a big help. We'll see with time. Merry Christmas! CHAD Edited by seedlings on 11/26/2007 7:51 AM Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover


TimEggers	#45 Posted on 11/26/2007 9:03 AM
Newbie Posts: 28 Joined: February 01, 2007	Chad that's great! I'm glad you are seeing some different results. I hope you report back after tasting the coffee. Your times seem a lot better! Some questions (just because I'm curious): When you open the lid how far do you open it? I ask because on my grill opening the lid at all makes the temps crash and stalls the roast. But my grill seems larger than yours. Yours seems to really hug the drum so the effects may not be as drastic and perhaps even necessary. Have you tried it without preheating the drum? This is how I do it, but like I said it sounds like you've found what works better for your grill. Chad I really hope you'll report back after tasting the coffee and I hope that in some time when you establish a successful technique for your grill you'll share it. I love seeing how different people, in different locations roast with different equipment. I also love seeing others come to know a roasting method that I have loved for the time that I've been doing it. I also think that once you get a few more roasts under your belt you'll begin to see the freedom that bbq roasting has to offer. I don't miss being able to see the roasts at all and in time I don't think you will either. Oh I almost forgot I really recommend the digital thermometer w/ thermocouple that Sweet Maria?s sells, its first rate and a big help! Link: http://www.sweetm...kits.shtml Tim Eggers Tim's Coffee Pages CLICK HERE
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seedlings	#46 Posted on 11/26/2007 9:37 AM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007	I'm going to let it rest for a few days (Kaffee Bitte recommended that drum roasts rest longer than the popper) but I will surely respond with results by week's end. I have yet to get a decent tasting roast of this Colombian from the RK......yet. Burners: they're about 3" below the center of the bottom of the drum. My one burner runs parallel with the drum. Now that I think of it, it is probably not exactly centered, but a little towards the front (knobs) of the grill. That is the rotation of my drum - towards me at the bottom of the rotation, and away from me at the top of rotation, so it's probably good that the burner is a little skewed towards the front, which is where the beans jump around. Lifting the lid: I lift the lid a few inches and the temp recovers within seconds. So I lifted the lid most of the way up for a count of three, then let it back down. Rinse and repeat as necessary to keep the temp under 500 after 1C. I didn't write anything down. (Of course gents always lift the lid at the toilet to stay in good graces s:5) Always wanted to use that smiley. CHAD Edited by seedlings on 11/26/2007 9:41 AM Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover


TimEggers	#47 Posted on 11/26/2007 10:17 AM
Newbie Posts: 28 Joined: February 01, 2007	Chad I wouldn't be afraid to make some coffee right now. I use my coffee as soon as it?s cool from roasting. The espresso is better a day or two later but drip/press can and often is great right from the roaster. Tim Eggers Tim's Coffee Pages CLICK HERE
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Kaffee Bitte	#48 Posted on 11/26/2007 11:40 AM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 613 Joined: May 11, 2007	I agree with Tim. And I believe my statements on resting were largely about resting for espresso. I cup every coffee as soon as it is done cooling, and it is usually quite good this way or in a french press. Resting for espresso requires a minimum of 2 days, but I find that four or five really let the flavors develop better. Some dry process coffees, especially Yemens and Ethiopians get a different resting procedure. I rarely ever use them in espresso until they are at least six days post roast. Unlike most coffees these dry process will last up to two and a half weeks, sometimes more, while remaining excellent as espresso. This is all related to drum roasts. Air roasts have a different rest for me. Air roasts rarely rest beyond three days. I am not sure why the two types are so different in their behavior but this is what works best for me. Lynn "Some days it's spice, other days it's bitter dirt."
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seedlings	#49 Posted on 11/26/2007 2:33 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 4226 Joined: June 27, 2007	Thanks for the clarification, Lynn. You might have noticed from other threads that I'm in the market for my first espresso machine, so resting for espresso won't apply to me - yet. However, I'm patient and cheap, so I'll wait for the diamond in the rough. I'm still looking for the person who jumped out and bought a nice average espresso machine... only to find out they really had money to get an easier-to-brag-about machine! Now, for the last several months they've had an OK espresso machine lying around in the basement... and soon, one of them will make a snap decision to get rid of it and I'll be there waiting! Or, at least, now you know my plan. CHAD Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500 Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover


Kaffee Bitte	#50 Posted on 11/26/2007 3:00 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 613 Joined: May 11, 2007	Best of luck on your espresso pursuits. I went the more expensive brand new route. I justified the La Pavoni by figuring it would give me a good twenty plus years of use with regular maintenance. The grinder was where I went wrong. The Lux that I had just wasn't up to the task for this machine even with various mods. Now I have my shiny new Macap MC4 and am feeling more properly buzzed than I have for a long long time. Lesson in this? Buy a grinder that retails for around $500, anything less is uncivilized. Using craigslist you may be able to find a very high quality commercial grinder that has been used and refurbish it for much less than the stated $500. I went new because that way I got the warranty at first. DEFINITLY don't scimp on the grinder it is far far more important than how pimped out your espresso machine is. If you haven't been over to Home-Barista, you really really should. It will do wonders for your espresso. Lynn "Some days it's spice, other days it's bitter dirt."
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