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 What kind of fluid bed should I build?
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| Noboundries |
Posted on 08/07/2020 12:27 AM
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 Newbie  Posts: 25 Joined: August 06, 2020 |
I am looking to build a fluid bed roaster, I have been lurking on here all week, and I am looking for some guidance from those with experience. My background: My father and I purchased an Artisan 6M roaster and about 800kg of coffee 5 years ago, this was in efforts to start a roasting business, but turned into just our family consuming the coffee over the last 5 years. We started on the air popper, then moved on to bbq rotisserie, then the artisan. Recently bought the new nesco roaster on amazon, and its junk missed the return window, and its already discontinued Why: -We no longer need #5 batches -6M could be sold for almost whats invested -With pop's HVAC background and our collective boredom, building a roaster and recouping costs sounds like fun Goals: -100g min and 1kg maximum roast size, we will be roasting around 3-4lbs most weeks -Having enough power to get 10min roasts with stretching development time if wanted -Glass roast chamber or at least sight glass -Automation with artisan, preferably fully automated air and temp and cooling, manual loading and unloading -Finally being able to profile roast, and not having to use 3lb batches to do so -Smaller budget, we can fabricate with sheet metal and wood to bridge the gap when needed I think fabrication will be the easy part, after scouring this forum I have some general ideas of direction. We also already have exhaust figured out, and I'm not worried about chaff separation at this time, we may someday look at building a cyclone separator but that's not in the cards today. Questions: -Is automation worth it? I know people do it, and the nerd in me doesn't want to build one that isn't automated, but -What are people's experiences with profiling with just data logging? -What are some good resources to get trough hurdles when setting up automation? -Is 100g-1kg a feasible goal? Or should I be looking at building 2 different roasters? -Is there a build list somewhere with a parts list and perfect instructions so I don't have to do any R and D? HAHA -Should I just stick with my 6M and do something else with my time? Love this site, thanks in advance to all you lovely people, and I really hope I put this post in the right spot! Edited by Noboundries on 08/07/2020 1:04 AM Roaster: Hottop-P, Hottop B-2 FS, Artisan 6M in red FS, SR800 FS. Someday:Bullet. Sold: Nesco CR-04-13, Poppery II
Grinder: DF64, 1Zpresso JX-Pro, Grindmaster 835s Brew Methods: BV1900TS, BMW espresso machine, Aeropress, Chemex, V60, French press. |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 08/07/2020 1:37 AM
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Administrator  Posts: 3005 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Generally I recommend building, but... to have a complete panorama, you should be aware that now there are available 350 grams chinese FB units at an attractive price, about 500 shipped: https://www.aliex...35431.html They are fitted with a BT probe, and temperature display. Also, manual control for air and heater. The fun in such machine would be to fit a TC4 inside  As for building, I am a TO addict, experienced with FB and will never go on that path again. |
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| Noboundries |
Posted on 08/08/2020 2:16 PM
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Newbie Posts: 25 Joined: August 06, 2020 |
I am not familiar enough with the lingo here yet sadly, what is TO? The AliExpress units do look nice, I'm curious how those compare to to the freshroast units that seem to have pretty decent reviews. I don't know much about automation other than artisan is the way to go, and Arduino is typically the computer used, I know I have a ton more to learn on that aspect and plan to learn it. Im absolutely not shy to the idea of building, at this time I think that's what we want to do, I can't envision spending $500 to roast less than a pound sadly, I know we can figure out building something that could do the same job, and be easier to service parts wise. If I went with a bake-a-round, I think I read somewhere that it's hard to roast really small batches, like say 100g, what's people's experience with that? I'm currently trying to go through past builds taking notes. Thanks! Roaster: Hottop-P, Hottop B-2 FS, Artisan 6M in red FS, SR800 FS. Someday:Bullet. Sold: Nesco CR-04-13, Poppery II
Grinder: DF64, 1Zpresso JX-Pro, Grindmaster 835s Brew Methods: BV1900TS, BMW espresso machine, Aeropress, Chemex, V60, French press. |
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| JackH |
Posted on 08/08/2020 2:46 PM
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 Administrator Posts: 1809 Joined: May 10, 2011 |
Welcome to Homeroasters! TO = Turbo Oven (like my profile photo) ---Jack
KKTO Roaster. |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 08/08/2020 3:40 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3005 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
You are right about small batches roasting with FB, I am doing right now a 50 grams sampler for pro usage, it is indeed challenging to roast uniform and measure something reliable with some dozens of beans only. From 100 g and up is much easier, 120-140 are very manageable. Unfortunately, the customer desire is 50 grams, to be able to do five different profile roasts from 250 grams sample bags he receive from farmers. That's why his lack of interest about the chinese 150 grams unit similar with the 350 grams I shown you. If you thing that $500 is not reasonable for 350 grams, what to say about +1000 for 200-250 grams... ? |
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| Noboundries |
Posted on 08/08/2020 4:08 PM
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Newbie Posts: 25 Joined: August 06, 2020 |
I don't think we can spend $1000 to build a roaster, I have no care in making the roaster pretty, and from other builds I've seen it seems we can do this much cheaper than $1000, and we might be able to scavenge some elements and blowers from HVAC parts, not sure on that yet. What's your experience in profiling with TO? I know nothing about this method, Infared sounds intriguing, looks like I have more to read. Roaster: Hottop-P, Hottop B-2 FS, Artisan 6M in red FS, SR800 FS. Someday:Bullet. Sold: Nesco CR-04-13, Poppery II
Grinder: DF64, 1Zpresso JX-Pro, Grindmaster 835s Brew Methods: BV1900TS, BMW espresso machine, Aeropress, Chemex, V60, French press. |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 08/09/2020 1:16 AM
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Administrator Posts: 3005 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
I didn't mean $1000 for build, but to buy, related to discussion around the Chinese FB units. With TO I am profiling based on BT, because is easy to place a probe and measure reliable beans temperature, without much influence from air. For IR itself, is very difficult to interpret what you measure, much easier is to measure the effect, i.e. how is absorbed by the objects target of beam. This is valid for great industry also... in my location there is a Ford factory, and they are using IR to dry paint, using tables/recipes brought by Ford guys, without any knowledge of the theory and relationships between power/area/heat capacity/color hue/etc... So BT for IR roast is a must, ET don't say as much as for other methods, air is much colder than in a 100% hot air machine. You can also mask partially the direct IR to beans path, and roast mostly with convection, i.e. hot air. With a bit of experiment, to find the heat losses, (here helps if the outer pot is well insulated...) you can roast also surprisingly well based on power levels only, no temperature measurements at all! Yeah, coffee roasting is a heat absorption thing... formulas are known, with a closed system as a TO math can help you driving unattended/untethered roasts much easier than for other methods. |
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| Noboundries |
Posted on 08/09/2020 12:48 PM
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Newbie Posts: 25 Joined: August 06, 2020 |
Roger that, that's all great info I'll have to look into that, I think coming from an artisan I lean heavily towards fluid bed, but I'll definitely look into to, I appreciate your info and input!
Roaster: Hottop-P, Hottop B-2 FS, Artisan 6M in red FS, SR800 FS. Someday:Bullet. Sold: Nesco CR-04-13, Poppery II
Grinder: DF64, 1Zpresso JX-Pro, Grindmaster 835s Brew Methods: BV1900TS, BMW espresso machine, Aeropress, Chemex, V60, French press. |
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 08/09/2020 3:37 PM
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1/4 Pounder  Posts: 101 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
Honestly I think you might want to consider the freshroast SR800 with extended chamber (Razzo Roast on Etsy) and chaff collector extension. You can throw in a thermocouple and run to artisan. You can definitely do 8oz batches on it. 6x 8oz batches a week = 3lb.
Roast: Kaldi wide, SR800 + projects
Grind: Lab sweet, Bentwood, giota w/ MP burrs, Commandante Pull: Decent, La Pavoni, Elektra Microcasa a Leva, Faemina anno 60, Kim Express |
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| Noboundries |
Posted on 08/09/2020 4:49 PM
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Newbie Posts: 25 Joined: August 06, 2020 |
I love the idea of the freshroast line, i wish they would come back out with a usb interface model. For a sample roaster, the freshroast offerings are going to be our pricing benchmark, if we were to build two roasters, which the more i think about it the more that notion makes sense. Our plan at this time might be to build a 100g roaster, automate it, and then when we get to a point where we are 100% confident, build a 500g or 1kg roaster so that we dont have to roast so many times a week. And that way we can each have a roaster at our own homes, and if (when) one has a failure, we dont have to go without coffee. i really like the look and ease of this build, is he somewhere on this forum? http://www.sinobi.dk/henrik/coffeeroaster1/ Roaster: Hottop-P, Hottop B-2 FS, Artisan 6M in red FS, SR800 FS. Someday:Bullet. Sold: Nesco CR-04-13, Poppery II
Grinder: DF64, 1Zpresso JX-Pro, Grindmaster 835s Brew Methods: BV1900TS, BMW espresso machine, Aeropress, Chemex, V60, French press. |
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 08/09/2020 8:02 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 101 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
FWIW, it seems to me you can get pretty decent control with a freshroast. Obvious caveat that I have no idea if things are being done to tinker with how smooth these lines are. But regardless. This is an SR800 with extended chamber, manually controlled, thermocouple for BT inserted in through a hole in the top. 
Roast: Kaldi wide, SR800 + projects
Grind: Lab sweet, Bentwood, giota w/ MP burrs, Commandante Pull: Decent, La Pavoni, Elektra Microcasa a Leva, Faemina anno 60, Kim Express |
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| Noboundries |
Posted on 08/09/2020 9:55 PM
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Newbie Posts: 25 Joined: August 06, 2020 |
I'll definitely keep that in mind, thanks!
Roaster: Hottop-P, Hottop B-2 FS, Artisan 6M in red FS, SR800 FS. Someday:Bullet. Sold: Nesco CR-04-13, Poppery II
Grinder: DF64, 1Zpresso JX-Pro, Grindmaster 835s Brew Methods: BV1900TS, BMW espresso machine, Aeropress, Chemex, V60, French press. |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 08/10/2020 2:09 AM
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Administrator Posts: 3005 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Indeed, these curves are too smooth to be true, without a massive filtering that mask the ugly truth. But overall allure is right. Wish to be that simple for smaller loads... |
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| Noboundries |
Posted on 08/11/2020 9:41 PM
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Newbie Posts: 25 Joined: August 06, 2020 |
Lucky me I found the old poppery 2 in the roasting room, i thought for certain we threw it away after we got the 6m. So an hour later with a soldering iron armed with this info https://ineedcoffee.com/west-bend-popper-2-rewire-coffee-roasting/ I was roasting some robusta to get the hang of things. So now i think i'd rather just work off of this, modding it to the point where it can reliably and semi-accurately sample roast. I'm a k-type probe short of roasting 90g more accurately than i have ever been able to and that's truly exciting. I'm starting a new thread in the popper section with this venture. I still do however want to build a roaster, automated heat, hopefully automated fan speed, running tc4, using artisan. 1-2lb batch size preferred. Is symmetrical or asymmetrical better? It seems the martini shaker, Bake-a-round is pretty popular, and i think i would like to go that route. Thanks! Roaster: Hottop-P, Hottop B-2 FS, Artisan 6M in red FS, SR800 FS. Someday:Bullet. Sold: Nesco CR-04-13, Poppery II
Grinder: DF64, 1Zpresso JX-Pro, Grindmaster 835s Brew Methods: BV1900TS, BMW espresso machine, Aeropress, Chemex, V60, French press. |
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| FreshCoffeeDK |
Posted on 08/18/2020 2:21 PM
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Newbie Posts: 7 Joined: March 11, 2020 |
Hi, I also just build a smaller roaster for profiling and you can see it on the picture in my thread: https://forum.hom...post_72125 I noticed that it was easier to get god bean aggregation with an asymmetrical roast chamber for < 1kg batch size. I tried a conical on but it doesn't worked very well. Stefan |
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| Noboundries |
Posted on 08/19/2020 1:07 PM
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Newbie Posts: 25 Joined: August 06, 2020 |
That looks awesome Stefan! I lean more towards electric over propane, me and my father are more familiar with it. But the build looks great thanks for sharing!
Roaster: Hottop-P, Hottop B-2 FS, Artisan 6M in red FS, SR800 FS. Someday:Bullet. Sold: Nesco CR-04-13, Poppery II
Grinder: DF64, 1Zpresso JX-Pro, Grindmaster 835s Brew Methods: BV1900TS, BMW espresso machine, Aeropress, Chemex, V60, French press. |
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