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Homeroasters - Home Roasting Coffee Community » BUILDING A ROASTER » Fluidbed Roaster

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Roaster Control
jake415	#1 Posted on 02/06/2022 4:53 AM
Newbie Posts: 26 Joined: January 18, 2022	Can someone help explain to me how the Robodyn dimmer might be used with Artisan and the TC4? Does it serve the same purpose as the SSR, or is it used in place of the TC4? Going to start a 350g build soon but am not too sure about the control side. Thanks, Jake


renatoa	#2 Posted on 02/06/2022 6:05 AM
Administrator Posts: 2498 Joined: September 30, 2016	PWM pin goes to OT1/OT2 ZC pin goes to ZC (IO2) Gnd goes to Gnd Vcc not connected It works as is for fan only, or heater less than 6 Amps, i.e. 1300W on 230V For a bigger heater needs a heatsink replacement.


iPa	#3 Posted on 02/06/2022 8:20 AM
Newbie Posts: 44 Joined: December 22, 2021	In the aArtisanQ_PID Setup Guide 2 PWM are connected to arduino D09 and D10 ?


renatoa	#4 Posted on 02/06/2022 10:43 AM
Administrator Posts: 2498 Joined: September 30, 2016	Right, which are defined in user.h as OT1 and OT2 respective pins Code Download source #define OT1 9 // OT1 is on pin D9 #define OT2 10 // OT2 is on pin D10


jake415	#5 Posted on 02/12/2022 5:18 AM
Newbie Posts: 26 Joined: January 18, 2022	Thanks for the information, that's really helpful. I have a 9A spa blower and am going to use a high load Robotdyn dimmer. I read through the Robotdyn dedicated thread which was helpful too. Since a heat sink replacement is required for higher loads, is it easier to use an SSR for a 1600W heating element? I already have one so I might go with that if it is more straightforward. Also, do these dimmers reduce the current pulled from the outlet? I'm wondering because I am using a 9A, 1080W AC fan and a 1600W heating element, which would blow a single 120V circuit if run at max at the same time. If they ran with lower current/wattage, then it seems like they could use the same circuit, like a 120V, 20A kitchen outlet.


renatoa	#6 Posted on 02/12/2022 6:31 AM
Administrator Posts: 2498 Joined: September 30, 2016	A dimmer reduce the average/effective current value, but the peak current remains the same if control % is higher than 50%. Attached are the waveforms for various power levels, called firing "angles" in the image, I prefer to call them firing delays. 90 degrees firing angle equates to 50% level, the OFF-ON switching is right at the peak current, and this sharp huge pulse is not gentle at all for a house wiring... generates a lot of EMI... that's why I prefer ICC instead PAC for heater. But whatever firing method is used, the peak current will be the same, and they add.... so if you don't have 29 Amps in your pocket, think to 230V, would be easier for the house wiring... Easier is relative... for me is not complicate to change the heatsink, and is cheaper than a duplicate SSR. If you already have one...go ahead... but for 20 Amps the SSR will require a heatsink too ! ~~~ renatoa attached the following image:


jake415	#7 Posted on 02/14/2022 5:11 AM
Newbie Posts: 26 Joined: January 18, 2022	That makes a lot of sense, thank you. It looks like I'll need to go at least 50% control to get enough heat and air pressure, so a single outlet probably won't work for me. I don't have 29A on any given circuit, but I might just run some extension chords and pull from multiple circuits. Is that what most people working with 120V do? I can't see a blower and electric heater combo that would work with a single 120V outlet, since heating element are usually at 1600W/13A and even the less powerful blowers run at 6A. Do you have any idea how people work around this issue? I guess the 13+6=19A could be okay for a kitchen circuit, but it's cutting it close. I see a lot of people using vacuum motors, do they tend to use two separate outlets for motor and blower? Like you said, probably just best to go with the 240V at that point, but it would be nice if I could get this thing to work on a normal 120V/20A kitchen outlet.


renatoa	#8 Posted on 02/14/2022 7:31 AM
Administrator Posts: 2498 Joined: September 30, 2016	Are the vacuum motors power consumption rated accurately? Maybe they are for the maximum load, i.e. closed intake or exhaust... Measured some time ago a vacuum unit rated as 500W on the plate, and the draw was barely 75W... Edited by renatoa on 02/14/2022 7:55 AM


allenb	#9 Posted on 02/14/2022 8:05 AM
Administrator Posts: 3650 Joined: February 23, 2010	A fluidbed with a 500 gram charge should never draw more than around 3 amps when using most domestic and commercial 120v vacuum motors with ac/dc universal motors. I'm assuming your spa blower is a universal motor? If it is, it does not matter what the rated max amp draw is. When you slow it down via dimmer or other means, the amperage at the AC mains will reflect the power level you are using it at. I've built 1 lb fluidbeds that drew less than 3 amps on the air side. Edited by allenb on 02/14/2022 10:35 AM 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana


jake415	#10 Posted on 02/15/2022 12:18 AM
Newbie Posts: 26 Joined: January 18, 2022	I got this one here: https://www.getpo...-2hp-9-amp and this heating element: https://www.ubuy....nts-for-ri Oh wow okay, that's a nice surprise. I definitely won't be using them at max power so I'm glad the actual power level will reflect that. To get the wattage I just took 120Vx9A but it seems like you are saying that the actual wattage would probably be less anyway. Good to hear that these things work fine on single circuits, phew, thanks Edited by renatoa on 02/15/2022 1:25 AM


allenb	#11 Posted on 02/15/2022 8:59 AM
Administrator Posts: 3650 Joined: February 23, 2010	You'll want to get an open frame heater element instead of the ceramic unit you have which is only 1" inch in diameter and will never allow the cfm needed for your fluidbed. These particular heat gun elements only have to pass a very small cfm for their application so their small size isn't an issue for a high temp heat gun. You'll need an open style with mica board construction for maximum pass through and proper heat exchange. I'm sure you can get a better price than this but is just for a visual example: https://www.grain...ent-22NP21 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana


allenb	#12 Posted on 02/15/2022 12:04 PM
Administrator Posts: 3650 Joined: February 23, 2010	Looks like Amazon doesn't do much better price wise. This is the 1680 watt heat blower element. If you decide to use the open style ceramic from master appliance, the total diameter is smaller and can be difficult to mount within the center of a 2" tube. You may also find other import open ceramic models out there that may work for you but stay away from the closed ceramics. https://www.amazo...ast_sto_dp Ebay option https://www.ebay....ed792e7fe1 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana


jake415	#13 Posted on 02/20/2022 4:40 AM
Newbie Posts: 26 Joined: January 18, 2022	Thanks allenb, really appreciate the guidance. I didn't think about its effect on airflow and heat exchange. I picked up the HAS 043 open frame heating element to replace the other one. I'm going with another member's suggestion of wrapping the original nozzel in mica and stuffing the elements into the 2inch pipe.

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