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allenb
12/04/2022 9:18 AM
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Modding the AICOOK.BMH-1202A
HarryDog
Hi All, I have setup manual "Digital Control on the fan and heater" on my popper.
I want to add more air, what is the best way to do this.

Would the motor in a stand up vacuum be a good idea?
I saw a few options at goodwill so they would be cheap.

Next best ways to implement PID's?
What model of PID's should I look for?


Thinking of trying a third popper style and adding more air to the roasting chamber I'm working on.
Thanks.
Edited by allenb on 08/20/2022 10:04 AM
 
renatoa
For me PID was no success until I found a model with true proportional control and ramp/soak function.
The cheap chinese models doing slow PWM didn't get me a control accuracy to suit my pickiness.
But this was in the beginning, long time ago... when was biased by too much industrial experience... today, instead a PID, would get a SCR/variator without any hesitation for roasting jobs.

For more air, check the 3-500 Watts motors used in a leaf blower, enough to lift more than a pound of greens.
 
HarryDog
So far I'm happy with the manual control but the issue is me manually charting and getting distracted for just a few seconds and now I've missed an adjustment. Out of 3 roasts 2 are close and one is totally different, on this one I was 30 seconds late on my big power change and the result is a big change in the coffee. Need to focus more on the roast and not logging, then be able to execute changes and make them repeatable if required.

Will order up one of those Phidgets and start using Artisan will help.
 
renatoa
No need to change power that frequently, there are testimonies in several places here that 3-4 steps is all you need for a great roast.
Sure, someone can be distracted even with 2 steps only... Grin but where is the fun if we have three identical roasts ? Grin

Alternatively you can try a ramp/soak PID, used on eBay they can be found for less than a phidget, and there is no need to be tethered to a computer to do its job, you program the steps, then you become a spectator.

Roasting without any intervention is a thing that is hard to do with Artisan... THAT piece of software is the biggest source of "distraction", imo... Shock

As a grinder is before the brewing machine as importance, the control of heat source is before any temperature measurements.
Artisan or not, first be sure your heat is reproducible and precise to control, measurements are there mainly to confirm you are on the right path, rather than use them as a feedback to drive the path.
30 seconds derailing in roast is not a crime, means 2-3% percents for heater control, or same percents in mains voltage as well, which is not uncommon in many places weak electrified.
 
HarryDog
I want to see the temps and ror so logging just slows me down, hope Artisan helps me with that. I made a control box so I can move between roasters. Still roasting on my second one as I mod my third one, trying to make a insulated chamber using a double walled Stainless Steel cup, with more fan power. I thought I found some glass for it but it's too big.
HarryDog attached the following image:
controlbox.jpg
 
renatoa
Just for curiosity... did you ever inspected the engraving on the PCB of the left side display/buttons panel ? Are there chinese ideograms or latin writing ?

If latin... are you surprised to read some acronyms that suggest that controller has inside all the necessary ingredients to turn it into a TC4 PAC compatible power control unit... Grin
I mean pins labelled as: ZERO, and SCR...
More on this subject in a separate thread, when I finish experiments Grin
Edited by renatoa on 08/17/2022 11:35 AM
 
HarryDog
Lots of Chinese symbols, pins are labeled.
HarryDog attached the following image:
heatercontrol.jpg
 
HarryDog
I had to rush out to work, this is a pic of the front of the controller.
Nothing on the longer chip. Smaller chip has FT24C02A 1BGCME, the B could be a 8 its slightly smeared.
HarryDog attached the following image:
frontside.jpg
 
HarryDog
This is what the third popper looks like, going to use the heater out of this one and see how much air I can push through it.
Might have to drill out some of those holes to pass a bit more air?
HarryDog attached the following image:
3rdpoppera.jpg
 
renatoa
Interesting bottom pattern... I would try first to see the beans dance with factory holes, and how much lift.
More air means less pressure, less lift if the motor has no margin, not sure if a good move.
Even if deciding to add more airflow, instead holes I would cut radial slots, as in ikawa.
You need a tool capable to perform a linear cut, as thin as possible, for example a dremel with a disk.
Perform a radial cut with this tool, then create the slot shape by introducing a spoon in the cut, and use the spoon curvature to mold the tin.
However, no idea, just looking at pictures, if you have enough space there for such slots...
 
HarryDog
I think I would need to make a bottom plate to put any slots worth while.
Just picked up a cheap blower 20v, 150MPH, will see if that puts out enough air.

My second roaster has Ikawa slots, will get this blower setup and can test it on both or all 3 roasters and see how they do.
Edited by HarryDog on 08/19/2022 4:08 PM
 
tinroofrusted
Renatoa, I read your comment above:

"today, instead a PID, would get a SCR/variator without any hesitation for roasting jobs."

SCR stands for "silicon controlled recitifier"?

Could an SCR be used to control the heat coming from a West Bend Stir Crazy Popcorn Popper? I have the heating element set up on a separate circuit from the stirring arm and would like to be able to regulate the heating levels. Would that be a job for an SCR?
 
HarryDog
Hey tinroofrusted, the picture just a few post after that is a SCR digital voltage regulator and it controls the heater in the popper. It works well just you need to manually adjust it. It's on the left and the PWM is on the right to control the fan motor.

Post #5
Edited by HarryDog on 08/19/2022 7:00 PM
 
renatoa
Yeah, the term SCR is used inappropriately for such variators, but present in almost Amazon listing titles, that's why adopted it Grin
 
addertooth
SCR, as versus TRIAC... an SCR turns on one side of the AC waveform to provide power for blower motors or heater elements (pulses of power of the same polarity). A TRIAC is able to turn on both sides of the waveform, and can deliver more effective power as it has the potential to use the full waveform, and not just half of it.

Switching supplies convert AC to DC, and *may* be adjustable (within a range of DC voltages). Heating elements can run off AC or DC, but most motors are ONLY AC or are ONLY DC.

You have good options, but you need to understand their strengths and limitations.

I do understand the desire to get something like Artisan to track your roasts. I spend 90 percent of my time (when roasting), writing notes.. color, aroma, temperatures, full yellow, first crack, etc. Things like aroma and color will still be hand-written logs, but at least temperature can be logged by something like Artisan.
 
HarryDog
I'm still feeling out parts of different poppers and learning to roast so I enjoy the end results. So far I enjoyed the more hot and fast roasts then the lower and slower roasts. My second roaster has issues hitting those higher temps without dropping the air flow so that adds some more adjustments for me.

This poppers heater looks to be hotter, in parallel it looks to be around 1400 watts. This should allow me to make fewer changes, maybe even add more beans and some extra air.
 
renatoa
Barbecue, vs oven, vs wok, vs grill vs rotisserie vs... Grin

Different resulting taste from same steak.
 
HarryDog
I don't know what FB bean movement is best but I see two types one where the beans undulate and the second is where they spay up the middle than fall down the outside of the chamber. I like the second method and think if I can control that spray it might be a more even roast? Using convection and conduction as the bean falls down a tapered chamber.

This hole pattern does just that for 100grams but I want to roast about 225grams and the stock motor might lift that much if it had better air flow.

Will test without the heater just to see how much the stock plate can lift.
I think I can add a row of holes but don't think I can make the holes any bigger on this plate.

I might have to make a base from scratch any suggestions on hole size or plate design? I like how this base is beveled to the middle to help with the bean movement.

Thanks.
 
renatoa
For the first method, asymmetric, that you don't prefer, but maybe you should give a chance... start with the following design hints:
- half of base plate perforated, and the other half solid.
- 60 degrees angle for the chute plate. i.e length = double of base plate radius.
A sample image is attached

The phrase key is:

Quote

...if I can control that spray...

Much simpler to achieve for the asymmetric build.

For the fountain style, assuming you get a perfect vertical, still you can't control the direction of fall, thus random fill of the circle.
Also, the hot air is everywhere, almost the same, difficult to measure the beans temp.

For the asymmetric build, the roast chamber is divided thermally in two distinct halves, visible very well with an IR camera, so you can place a probe in the middle of the beans chute for a very reliable measurement, almost no hot air there, and a big pile of beans above.

And forget about conduction, there is no such thing Grin
renatoa attached the following image:
image_2022-09-16_090817395.png

Edited by renatoa on 09/16/2022 1:08 AM
 
HarryDog
I think that looks interesting, it looks much like a FreshRoast modified chamber.
Any videos of this in action?

I have looked at those TyRoasters before but have not seen this chamber and don't seem to see it now on alibaba.
Just found something on Ali express.
Nice little video on Ali express, good bean movement but small.
Edited by HarryDog on 09/16/2022 6:49 AM
 
renatoa
As it goes for 50 grams... same is for 500:
https://homeroast...ad_id=3174

... or 15000...
The last model of Sivetz design, claimed the father of all FBs, is using a similar movement, in a square chamber.
https://www.sivet...15-roaster
Edited by renatoa on 09/16/2022 7:03 AM
 
HarryDog
I like the bean control of Allenb's version, the Sivet videos I found did not look as even but a much bigger batch, one video looked like a double wave if not a reflection in the video?

Do you know the diameter of the holes?
Maybe 5/32?

The stock heater has two rivets but they look isolated so I think I can make some plates to test hole size once I get a little closer and slide them in place just on top the heater or put them under the cup I'm going to try using?

Few ideas to try now.
 
renatoa
3 mm are the holes in the 50g sampler.
Depends how small are the smallest beans you are roasting.
Not a peaberry machine, definitely...
 
HarryDog
Wow even my smallest beans are much bigger then 3mm or 1/8inch?
How small do peaberry beans get?

Not having any luck with google yet?
I was thinking of trying 1/8" holes.

Was going to try 3/32" on the outside ring on stock plate?

Found a bean size chart, looks like 3.2mm-3.6mm?

That might be cutting it close.
Edited by HarryDog on 09/16/2022 11:28 AM
 
renatoa
Coffee grades are used to qualify the beans size, a number whose meaning is the x/64 size of screen that allow to pass those beans:
https://driftaway...ee-grades/

As article says, is grades, not grading, which is a term related to quality, number of defects.
 
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