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Homeroasters - Home Roasting Coffee Community » THE ART OF ROASTING COFFEE » Roasting Coffee

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Page 3 of 3: 1 23

Roast Color Nerdy Stuff
oldgrumpus	#51 Posted on 02/21/2023 6:03 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 168 Joined: July 25, 2012	In keeping with the title of this thread, here's some very nerdy stuff. It's a study that delves into time spent in the development phase and color or degree-of-roast, and how both influence the results in the cup. https://www.mdpi....710/6/4/70


MaKoMo	#52 Posted on 03/05/2023 9:37 AM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 122 Joined: April 06, 2011	More nerdy stuff on roast color: Understanding Roast Color


CK	#53 Posted on 03/06/2023 3:39 PM
1/2 Pounder Posts: 231 Joined: December 07, 2018	What a great, detailed, and professional presentation of the topic. A shout of thanks to Artisan for publishing these findings and research. Technivorm Moccamaster, French Press, Aeropress GO, Ibrik, Moka pot, Breville Barista Express, Urbanic070s/static-free with zero retention mods, Breville SGP, Roaster908


oldgrumpus	#54 Posted on 03/08/2023 5:59 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 168 Joined: July 25, 2012	I also read the article posted here by MaKoMo. Lot's of info and very nerdy indeed. I recommend it highly for those who enjoy the deep-dive. It's interesting to me that so much effort is put into accuracy and precision of reading color, which I understand, especially for high production commercial roasters to get something close to repeatability, but we are dealing with an agricultural product that on many levels, varies widely, not only in a single-year's harvest, but also geographically, by genetics and so on... It would be interesting to see how much variation in the degree of color measured by a professional-level color reading device is actually detectable in cupping tests.


Piotrkurak	#55 Posted on 03/17/2023 10:46 AM
Newbie Posts: 7 Joined: March 01, 2023	Just to stick in my $0.02: which bean do you select? I have probably several different levels of color in my last batch, not including the kind of green beans when I forgot to hit the start button on the new to me Behmore as it beeped for attention at the 70% roast point.


oldgrumpus	#56 Posted on 03/17/2023 9:36 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 168 Joined: July 25, 2012	Typically, roast color evaluation is measured using a typical random sample comprised of enough beans for the sample, then ground and leveled before measuring. The odd bean in the sample should be measured with the rest if the others are left in and not removed.


ACEMBL	#57 Posted on 03/23/2023 9:31 AM
Newbie Posts: 26 Joined: February 04, 2020	OK, so a single spot sample will throw up all sorts of issues. Indeed, different lighting, variances in bean, any refraction … will all add to differing results. So multiple sampling controlled lighting and data regression seem to be necessary. I’m having a little play to see whether I can identify the matching average colour to trigger an event (different method but similar result to ColourTrak). There are a couple of different methods I’m exploring so we’ll see whether either is suitable! My poor little Raspberry Pi is going to be busy! Just a shame my coding ability is almost non-existent. Great little thread!


Piotrkurak	#58 Posted on 03/23/2023 10:41 AM
Newbie Posts: 7 Joined: March 01, 2023	I now can see why bean temp is a criteria, that is something you can measure on the fly without so many variables. Since the maillard reaction is a function of sugar/starch carmalization might co relating sugar content in the raw bean to roast color be more appropriate? Not sure how to determine starch quantity Edited by Piotrkurak on 03/23/2023 10:50 AM


randytsuch	#59 Posted on 03/27/2023 2:37 PM
1/2 Pounder Posts: 390 Joined: June 20, 2009	Thread on HB about a diy color meter. https://www.home-...86508.html github info seems to be a work in progress, but looks like it has potential to me. To bad I don't have a 3d printer or I'd try it now. Randy


ACEMBL	#60 Posted on 03/28/2023 3:57 PM
Newbie Posts: 26 Joined: February 04, 2020	If you don’t have a printer there are lots of project boxes out there. I’m doing something similar and am using a small electrical junction box. A bit of plastic putty, A sharp craft knife and you should be good to go!


oldgrumpus	#61 Posted on 03/28/2023 11:14 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 168 Joined: July 25, 2012	Also, depending on where you are, there may be very inexpensive places to have the printing done. Where I live, Craigslist, Shapeways, 3dhubs, and others....


renatoa	#62 Posted on 03/29/2023 1:52 AM
Administrator Posts: 2507 Joined: September 30, 2016	Still I am confused about the usefulness of such methods... if they aren't able to tell you degree of roast during development, and tell you with enough precision: Drop ! 3, 2, 1 ... NOW ! Assuming the grounds measurement is reproducible enough... discussions on HB shows they aren't... will ask those following here, generically, not only the thread author : How reproducible are our roasts ? If we decide a roast give us the right Agtron, are we able to reproduce it within the same limits as the Agtron measurement ?


Piotrkurak	#63 Posted on 03/29/2023 10:18 AM
Newbie Posts: 7 Joined: March 01, 2023	Quote renatoa wrote: Still I am confused about the usefulness of such methods... if they aren't able to tell you degree of roast during development, and tell you with enough precision: Drop ! 3, 2, 1....... How reproducible are our roasts ? If we decide a roast give us the right Agtron, are we able to reproduce it within the same limits as the Agtron measurement ? I agree:too many variables to control for with too many solutions. Not easily feasible from an instrumentation techs point of view.even with computer control


oldgrumpus	#64 Posted on 03/29/2023 11:19 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 168 Joined: July 25, 2012	I think the confusion comes from the fact we sometime try to combine two different methods (philosophies). One uses degree of time in development phase. This method does not account for roast color. The other does not account for time in development, but prioritizes the color of the roast instead. What I have just said above is most definitely an oversimplification, which I am using to clear up the confusion. Getting into it deeper, you may want to look at this video. It has answered a lot of questions for me, and since using this recent change in roast philosophy, I've been getting better results. I'm speaking for myself. Others have their preferences. No right or wrong here.... I would agree with the notion that 80 percent of our priority should be color and 20 percent pre-first-crack temp inputs. Time in development is important too, but one can achieve the same color in development even though one can spend more or less time there depending on the rate of rise. Staying there longer will give the dreaded "baked" flavor, and speeding up too much will give more acidity and fruitiness, but going too quickly will end up with it's own issues. Minimum time after first crack 1:20, and mid point between first-crack and second-crack, about 3 minutes... which is where I'm dropping with excellent results. For those going for fruity, 1:20 is better. Main target is first crack at 9 minutes. Too much to say here. Probably already lost some of you reading this... sorry. https://www.youtu...U&t=6s Edited by oldgrumpus on 03/29/2023 11:32 PM


allenb	#65 Posted on 03/30/2023 8:32 AM
Administrator Posts: 3655 Joined: February 23, 2010	Quote I think the confusion comes from the fact we sometime try to combine two different methods (philosophies). One uses degree of time in development phase. This method does not account for roast color. The other does not account for time in development, but prioritizes the color of the roast instead. Interesting point you've made. In watching experienced roasters on mid sized shop drum roasters over the years, I was able to see what they used for sensory input to control this final stage of the roast. They knew from lots of experience about where to set the gas valve when getting near 1C. Most of them would have a sample tray of roasted beans and a good light for color reference and as soon as the first audible snaps of 1C started, they would start pulling the trier every few seconds. I think they were able to sense the rate of the cracking of 1C and could tell by how fast or slow the color was changing and by these two sensory inputs, knew when to end the roast for a given roast level. 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana


Piotrkurak	#66 Posted on 03/30/2023 11:34 AM
Newbie Posts: 7 Joined: March 01, 2023	All well and good for a normal roast. But I like FC roast levels that usually don't go beyond FC+1:00. Tis why I got really interested in color as opposed to bean temp Edit: Did a 2:30+FC dark roast last week and the beans are pretty uniform. Did an 0:30 FC ane have 4 distinct and repeatable color variations throughout the sample Edited by Piotrkurak on 03/30/2023 2:50 PM


renatoa	#67 Posted on 03/30/2023 3:24 PM
Administrator Posts: 2507 Joined: September 30, 2016	Exactly, when development is less than a minute you have a wide range of hue across the bean mass. Good luck averaging something... Before your later edit, was curious to ask you haw do you handle that apparent non-uniformity characteristic of light roasts. Got the answer

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