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1st try with bread machine and heat gun
seedlings
I agree, Stu, shutting down every once in a while is very helpful and doesn't hurt anything. Like, when I know 2C is coming pretty quick, I often power everything down and listen for a few seconds. I did it this morning. 2C started and I was taking the colombian a little darker (with the new heatgun), so I listened ... snap ........... snap ........snap......snap..snap.snap.snapsnapsnap....for about 10 seconds, pull and cool.

Nice!
CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
bvwelch
Thanks guys, I try those ideas next time.

Chad-- I forgot to say, nearly all of the chaff winds up inside the bottom of the bread maker. And the smoke rolls out of various original vents and openings around the sides and bottom of the bread maker.

Bill
 
bvwelch
Greetings,

bvwelch.com/roast/hgbread.jpg

Yesterday went pretty well. I tried to incorporate the many good suggestions that you all have provided. Like lifting the lid occasionally, and turning off the roaster and listening every so often. Thank you!

My setup is loud- I tried slowing down the stirrer's motor with the small variac on the left of the photo. But it didn't help. I may try reducing the surface area of the stirrer next, or maybe one of those wire stirrers like you have, CHAD.

I'd like to be able to produce the various roasting levels that Tom (SM) mentions-- City, City+, FC, and FC+. Is this level of control likely to be obtainable? Any suggestions would be appreciated! So far, the only levels that I've "nailed" are Vienna and Spanish. :-)

I roasted 1 pound of each:

Costa Rica Naranjo Caracol Peaberry
Panama Boquete Organic Los Lajones
Indonesia Flores - Bajawa Highlands

Now the waiting begins...

-bill

ps: check out the exhaust fan, provided by the previous home owner -- He was a taxidermist, and built a good-sized detached workshop which I'm finding very nice for roasting.
Edited by bvwelch on 04/06/2008 8:43 AM
 
David

Quote

bvwelch wrote:I'd like to be able to produce the various roasting levels that Tom (SM) mentions-- City, City+, FC, and FC+. Is this level of control likely to be obtainable? Any suggestions would be appreciated!


Sure. It's not too hard -- to get in the ballpark anyway. The first part to to relate the temp as measured on your thermometer to the sound of first and second crack. Mine usually says 395F, but it can be lower or higher depending on the bean mass (ie, how deep the sensor is in the bean mass. Too few beans and I am measuring heated air more than the beans.

With practice you will be able to associate smells and smoke color with the roast level as well. Color is harder since you have a covered chamber.

The other main variable is the heat output of the gun. Use this to speed up or slow down the speed of the roast. Use the same amount of beans for each roast for a while. I found taking notes very useful: bean type; ambient temperature: time to 200F, 300F, FC, SC, End of Roast. This way you can determine the best roast profile for each type bean.

There are comments on profiling in other threads here.

Onward!
 
David
Here is a simplified chart that I often use.
I simply draw a line between the time and temperature from time to time.
David attached the following image:
RoastChart[865].jpg
 
bvwelch
Thanks for the feedback and tips. I like that chart! I'll give it a try.

-bill
 
boyntonstu
Hi!


Beautiful setup, great work!


A suggestion for chaff removal when using the roaster outdoors.

(Place the setup on a wheeled cart)

Either slide the cover a little to the side to allow a 3/8" gap or cut a gap into the lid.

First try the 'electric slide' and if you like it, cut a gap.

The newer handle HF HG looks nice.

Good roasting.


BoyntonStu;)

See my $100 elevator video here:

http://www.youtub...hom61NxuaE

Quote

bvwelch wrote:
Greetings,
Yesterday went pretty well. I tried to incorporate the many good suggestions that you all have provided. Like lifting the lid occasionally, and turning off the roaster and listening every so often. Thank you!
My setup is loud- I tried slowing down the stirrer's motor with the small variac on the left of the photo. But it didn't help. I may try reducing the surface area of the stirrer next, or maybe one of those wire stirrers like you have, CHAD.
I'd like to be able to produce the various roasting levels that Tom (SM) mentions-- City, City+, FC, and FC+. Is this level of control likely to be obtainable? Any suggestions would be appreciated! So far, the only levels that I've "nailed" are Vienna and Spanish. :-)

I roasted 1 pound of each:

Costa Rica Naranjo Caracol Peaberry
Panama Boquete Organic Los Lajones
Indonesia Flores - Bajawa Highlands

Now the waiting begins...

-bill

ps: check out the exhaust fan, provided by the previous home owner -- He was a taxidermist, and built a good-sized detached workshop which I'm finding very nice for roasting.

Edited by seedlings on 04/07/2008 9:09 AM
 
seedlings
s:2 Sweet set up, Bill! s:2

I have the exact same heatgun, Bill. To me it is very quiet, especially compared to the last one I had. I'm not sure if you'll be able to escape the sloshing noises, but don't worry, you have 3 weapons still: 1) power everything off and listen, 2) the smell of the smoke will give you great hints to when 1C is here and when 2C is immenant, and then 3): Thermometer. As David said, watch the thermometer closely, and by about 400F you should certainly be into first crack, which is time to back the heat off and hold the temp, or gradually let it rise 5F per minute, much like in David's chart. If you want to try the lighter roasts just learn at what temperature 2C usually starts. It should be around 420F. If 1C starts about 395, at that point slow the heat to increase only 5F per minute, then after 4 to 5 minutes, you're done! Perfect!

Love the vent fan!

CHAD


Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
David

Quote

seedlings wrote:As David said, watch the thermometer closely, and by about 400F you should certainly be into first crack, which is time to back the heat off and hold the temp, or gradually let it rise 5F per minute, much like in David's chart.


A clarification regarding the chart: it is simply a way to get time and temperature in adjacent columns so that a line can be drawn across. It is just an artifact that the upper end of it goes at 5F per minute.

Most of the time my lines are slanted, not level. And the slope of the line varies according to the time (timing) of the roast.

So, no credit where no credit is due. c:4
 
bvwelch
David, I used your charts today-- very handy!

I need to figure out what's up with my TC readings. Maybe I need a better placement-- my readings are probably 40 degrees F too low! Or at least 30 degrees... I have an oblong pan. The heat gun is at one end of the pan, the TC is at the other end, about an inch or so from the bottom. I have the TC covered with hobby brass. Maybe that is an issue. dunno.

Anyway, today, I did log the temp readings, but didn't try to use them for much of anything. Instead, I tried opening up about a one inch crack along the front of my "lid", so that I had a clear view of the beans at all times. I heard the early pops of 1st, and also smoke, then steady/rapid pops, then tapering off. I waited turned the heat gun to its "low" setting and waited another minute or so.

Still, it seems like the roast is going a bit too fast-- about 7 minutes to 1st crack, even with the 1 inch crack in the lid.

I pulled some of the roasts at 9 minutes, and some at 10.

For one of them, I intentionally waited until 2nd was just starting, and pulled. cracks continued while I transfer to the cooler, and got it cranked up.

It should be interesting to see/taste how these turn out.

Bill

ps My new shipment from SweetMaria's arrived today! So now I have to figure out what to roast next!

 
David

Quote

bvwelch wrote: Still, it seems like the roast is going a bit too fast-- about 7 minutes to 1st crack, even with the 1 inch crack in the lid.


Hi Bill,
Yes, that does seem fast unless you are going for popcorn-popper brightness.

So, there is how to slow it and when to slow it.

As to the when, I'd say try to add some time during what you would estimate to be the "drying phase" -- figure that at around 250-300F.

Or, [since you are still getting the temperature measurements sorted out] slow it just as the beans start changing color until they reach a uniform yellow, peanut-like color.

You're doing a pound, right? If so, look for the yellow point at around 5-7 minutes. Then crank 'er back up again.
 
seedlings
Start on low and leave it on low and you'll get a nice long profile.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
bvwelch

Quote

seedlings wrote:
Start on low and leave it on low and you'll get a nice long profile.

CHAD


I never know when you're teasing, so.. I tried this. First, with no beans. I gave up after seven minutes-- temp, according to my TC, was only 340.

If you think this approach is worth trying with real coffee beans, I will give it a shot. Seems like it would take a long, long time to roast though.

Thanks,

-bill
 
seedlings

Quote

bvwelch wrote:

Quote

seedlings wrote:
Start on low and leave it on low and you'll get a nice long profile.

CHAD


I never know when you're teasing, so.. I tried this. First, with no beans. I gave up after seven minutes-- temp, according to my TC, was only 340.

If you think this approach is worth trying with real coffee beans, I will give it a shot. Seems like it would take a long, long time to roast though.

Thanks,

-bill


Bill, you're always wise to be a little skeptical, however I was not teasing...this time B) I'm pretty sure the drum roasters here get 12 to 15 minutes to first crack, sometimes longer if the roast is stopping at City (right after 1C is over). If at 7 minutes your beans are at 340F, that's on pace for a 10 minute first crack, right?

Truth telling:
With the exact same heatgun and very similar setup... starting with everything cold - using high all the way - with 3 cups of beans - I'll regularly hit first crack about 8 minutes. 4 cups of beans - 10 minutes. On low heat all the way, first crack will start around 12 minutes with 3 cups of beans.

I have never roasted (with heatgun and breadmaker) when I couldn't hear the beans crack.

As far as thermocouple placement, drill a hole through the side of the removable breadmaker hopper somewhere between where the stirring paddle is closest to the edge and the corner, about 1 inch to 1.5 inches from the bottom. Stick just the tip of the TC into the hole so that it extends barely 1/4 inch into the bowl, then press it toward the side. This placement works great for me. Actually I have 2 holes, one close to the bottom for small batches and a second one up about 1.5 inches for the full kilo batch. You'll have to find a creative way to keep the TC in the hole, because it will want to fall out. Then the TC cord just goes over the rim of the breadmaker.

CHAD
seedlings attached the following image:
TC placement[902].gif

Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
bvwelch

Quote

seedlings wrote:

With the exact same heatgun and very similar setup... starting with everything cold - using high all the way - with 3 cups of beans - I'll regularly hit first crack about 8 minutes. 4 cups of beans - 10 minutes. On low heat all the way, first crack will start around 12 minutes with 3 cups of beans.

As far as thermocouple placement, drill a hole through the side of the removable breadmaker hopper somewhere between where the stirring paddle is closest to the edge and the corner, about 1 inch to 1.5 inches from the bottom. Stick just the tip of the TC into the hole so that it extends barely 1/4 inch into the bowl, then press it toward the side. This placement works great for me. Actually I have 2 holes, one close to the bottom for small batches and a second one up about 1.5 inches for the full kilo batch. You'll have to find a creative way to keep the TC in the hole, because it will want to fall out. Then the TC cord just goes over the rim of the breadmaker.

CHAD


Thanks CHAD.

My loafpan is oblong-- wider when facing the front of the unit, than it is deep. So, my TC is centered on the left side of the loafpan. Since the paddle "clears" the narrow portion of the loafpan, it has extra clearance on each end. I've got a couple different heights drilled.

I used to roast, always on "high". But when I do that, first crack happens at about seven minutes, for one pound of beans. I was thinking maybe that was too fast. Maybe not.

I'm beginning to wonder, if maybe I just don't like the "bright" coffees that I have been experimenting with...

Prior to homeroasting, we've mostly had Sumatra, from a local commercial roaster.

I have pretty good results with home roasting Sumatra, and also a few other mild, sweet beans.

Maybe I can figure out a way to gradually learn to like some of these other coffees. But it is tough, not knowing if I am roasting correctly, and just not enjoying the coffee, or if I am doing something wrong (seems more likely)

-bill
Edited by bvwelch on 04/23/2008 2:47 PM
 
bvwelch

Quote

seedlings wrote:

Bill, you're always wise to be a little skeptical, however I was not teasing...this time B) I'm pretty sure the drum roasters here get 12 to 15 minutes to first crack, sometimes longer if the roast is stopping at City (right after 1C is over). If at 7 minutes your beans are at 340F, that's on pace for a 10 minute first crack, right?

CHAD


Chad,

But that was without any beans at all. When I repeated the "low heat only" experiment, but this time, with a pound of beans, after three minutes, I was only at 150, so at that point, I decided that you were teasing, and flipped the switch to high. Maybe I will try it again and be more patient...

Bill
Edited by bvwelch on 04/23/2008 3:18 PM
 
seedlings
I'm posting a video on youtube. Stay tuned.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
boyntonstu

Quote

bvwelch wrote:

Quote

seedlings wrote:

Bill, you're always wise to be a little skeptical, however I was not teasing...this time B) I'm pretty sure the drum roasters here get 12 to 15 minutes to first crack, sometimes longer if the roast is stopping at City (right after 1C is over). If at 7 minutes your beans are at 340F, that's on pace for a 10 minute first crack, right?

CHAD


Chad,

But that was without any beans at all. When I repeated the "low heat only" experiment, but this time, with a pound of beans, after three minutes, I was only at 150, so at that point, I decided that you were teasing, and flipped the switch to high. Maybe I will try it again and be more patient...

Bill


Something is not right.:(

My empty BM on Hi is up to 300F in 1 minute.

Check your empty tub temp. at 1 minute.

BoyntonStu
 
seedlings
Ditto what Stu said. Something doesn't add up. You should definitely be able to roast to temperature on low, it'll take about twice as long.

Stupid youtube videos have to be under 10 minutes... I have to break it into two parts... still working...

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
bvwelch
Greetings,

Thanks for the help, and interest. I do appreciate it.

To recap,

with an empty bread machine (no beans), and heat gun on high, I hit 300 in one minute, and 425 in three minutes.

with an empty bread machine, and heat gun on low, I reached 200 in one minute, 300 in four minutes, and gave up testing at seven minutes - only 340.

With a pound of beans, and high heat, I hit 1st crack around 6:30 to 7 minutes. This seems a little fast, so I've been trying to slow things down somewhat.

I will say, I don't trust my TC readings. I may borrow a friend's meter and TC, to check mine against his. The reason I don't trust the readings, is that I've had some roasts with first crack as low as 350.

thanks,

bill

 
seedlings
How's about a picture of your TC setup in the breadmaker?

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
bvwelch
After watching CHAD's video (really cool-- stop reading this and go watch it!), I learned some things that I will try next time I roast.

Also, since his bread machine's loaf pan is a much different shape than mine, I think I can understand why he is getting better temp measurements than I am.

I'll send a photo of my loaf pan so you can see the difference. But since I only have $3 in this bread machine, I may just find another one that is more like CHAD's. I like the way his loaf pan is vertical. Mine is horizontal. Like if you turned CHAD's onto its side. So, with a pound of greens, I don't get very much depth, so my TC is not nearly as deep into the beans as CHAD's.

The biggest difference I saw in CHAD's approach, was how long he kept the coffee going after 1st crack. With the bread machine, I doubt if I've ever waited more than 2 minutes after 1st. I have a circuit that is equivalent to the router speed controller, that I can use on the heat gun. I hadn't done it much, because I was concerned that maybe it would harm the gun, since you're turning down both the heat and fan at the same time. But, it is only a $10 gun. I will pick up a spare one though just in case. I've already had to hot-wire around the thermal fuse after my first roast-- this was before I started using a "lid" like Stu has, which protects the gun itself from heat.

Bill
Edited by bvwelch on 04/23/2008 11:48 PM
 
boyntonstu

Quote

bvwelch wrote:
After watching CHAD's video (really cool-- stop reading this and go watch it!), I learned some things that I will try next time I roast.

Also, since his bread machine's loaf pan is a much different shape than mine, I think I can understand why he is getting better temp measurements than I am.

I'll send a photo of my loaf pan so you can see the difference. But since I only have $3 in this bread machine, I may just find another one that is more like CHAD's. I like the way his loaf pan is vertical. Mine is horizontal. Like if you turned CHAD's onto its side. So, with a pound of greens, I don't get very much depth, so my TC is not nearly as deep into the beans as CHAD's.

The biggest difference I saw in CHAD's approach, was how long he kept the coffee going after 1st crack. With the bread machine, I doubt if I've ever waited more than 2 minutes after 1st. I have a circuit that is equivalent to the router speed controller, that I can use on the heat gun. I hadn't done it much, because I was concerned that maybe it would harm the gun, since you're turning down both the heat and fan at the same time. But, it is only a $10 gun. I will pick up a spare one though just in case. I've already had to hot-wire around the thermal fuse after my first roast-- this was before I started using a "lid" like Stu has, which protects the gun itself from heat.

Bill


You have a HG with a 3 position switch, hi/lo/off.

Each position will control temperature.

You have a TC or a thermometer to indicate the temperature.

You have eyes, a nose, ears, and a fast acting finger controller.

Do you also need a router controller?

I find that I really do not even need any temperature indicator.

I mainly go by sound, smell, , smoke, and look.

BoyntonStu;)

BTW Was the video of decaf beans?

I did not see any chaff.
 
seedlings
Not decaf beans (don't have any use for them). Some chaff blows out the original air vent in the back of the lid, but most ends up on the bottom of the breadmaker. Didn't you notice the shopvac in the vid?

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
boyntonstu

Quote

seedlings wrote:
Not decaf beans (don't have any use for them). Some chaff blows out the original air vent in the back of the lid, but most ends up on the bottom of the breadmaker. Didn't you notice the shopvac in the vid?

CHAD


Yes, I saw the great vid. Wonderful job!

However, when I roast, there is a cloud of chaff blowing out the slit in my cover.

Your system is very closed off in comparison to my setup.


How can you stand the temp of the tub and the beans with your hands?

350 degree beans, ouch!!!:(
 
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