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Background Roast Issues on Drum Roaster
vbuys
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 07/23/2024 11:15 PM
I'm just finishing up my first build of a Cacao roaster for my brother's chocolate farm. I've implemented Artisan 2.10.4 for control but am having issues with the background roast profiles following the ET curve rather than the BT curve. I know it's got to be a simple setting, but for the life of me, I can't detect which setting is backwards.

I'm using an Autonics PID controller for BT and proportional gas valve. That system all works well and displays/controls correctly. BT is set up as a symbolic BT mapped to Y3, which is my MODBUS PV register.

I have a TC4 to control the fan(ac) and drum motor(dc), control the linear actuators on the door and hopper, and read from the ET, Exhaust, and Ambient temp sensors with ET on chan #2. All these reference correctly on the LCDs when running a roast. Artisan simply spits out the ET curve to the SV for my PID controller, rather than using the BT curve.

I've attached the Artisan Settings file, a sample roast, and the background profile.

In the screenshot, you can see the green SV line following right on top of the light red ET (drum temp) background profile until around 11 mins, when I put it into manual mode and dropped the SV. By that time, the thermal mass of the beans and drum were too much to significantly pull down the BT curve until I dropped at 14 mins.

One thing I've noticed, on the upgraded Artisan 2.10, in the MODBUS PID Control window, there is no longer the ability to select which curve to follow on background roast, like there was in previous versions. Did this move to a different location that I'm just not finding anywhere?

Thanks in advance for any help!
Vince
vbuys attached the following file:
kccf_chocolate.zip [73.38kB / 52 Downloads]
vbuys attached the following image:
artisanscreenshot1_1.png
Edited by vbuys on 07/23/2024 11:21 PM
 
renatoa
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 07/24/2024 2:45 AM
The info below... at line 196:

controlETpid=1, 2
readBTpid=1, 1
arduinoETChannel=2
arduinoBTChannel=None

... and ...
at line 497:
pidSource=2

... from the .aset file, suggests you have PID controlled by ET... and no BT at all !

You can try manually edit of the .aset file and see how it goes.
I mean ...

arduinoBTChannel=1
pidSource=1
 
MaKoMo
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 07/24/2024 6:18 AM
This is a very Artisan specific question, why not ask this the Artisan community on its own Discussion Forum such that the whole Artisan community can learn from this?

https://artisan-scope.org/discussions/

Regarding your issue: Artisan is handling multiple PID configurations, either to drive external PIDs (like a Fuji or a MODBUS/S7 PLC, a TC4 PID firmware PID, or the internal Artisan software PID), but never more than one. You did configure for a MODBUS PID and thus this is what it is using. It sends the SV to the register you configured in the MODBUS PID and the external PID follows whatever it is configured for. Artisan has no influence on this in this configuration. You might be able to configure this on your device which actually runs the PID loop somehow.
 
MaKoMo
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 07/24/2024 6:18 AM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

The info below... at line 196:

controlETpid=1, 2
readBTpid=1, 1
arduinoETChannel=2
arduinoBTChannel=None

... and ...
at line 497:
pidSource=2

... from the .aset file, suggests you have PID controlled by ET... and no BT at all !

You can try manually edit of the .aset file and see how it goes.
I mean ...

arduinoBTChannel=1
pidSource=1


NEVER manually edit the .aset file or an .alog file!
 
renatoa
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 07/24/2024 8:42 AM
I did it for years... without knowing it is forbidden... d'oh... Shock

I figured if this information has a dialog to scroll through... then it's for a purpose, not just for display.
 
vbuys
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 07/24/2024 6:39 PM

Quote

MaKoMo wrote:

This is a very Artisan specific question, why not ask this the Artisan community on its own Discussion Forum such that the whole Artisan community can learn from this?

https://artisan-scope.org/discussions/

Regarding your issue: Artisan is handling multiple PID configurations, either to drive external PIDs (like a Fuji or a MODBUS/S7 PLC, a TC4 PID firmware PID, or the internal Artisan software PID), but never more than one. You did configure for a MODBUS PID and thus this is what it is using. It sends the SV to the register you configured in the MODBUS PID and the external PID follows whatever it is configured for. Artisan has no influence on this in this configuration. You might be able to configure this on your device which actually runs the PID loop somehow.


Thanks, I'll try joining and reaching out on the Artisan discussion forum as well. Like you mentioned, I am using the external PID, and it is sending a SV value to the PID, however it is sending the data from the ET background curve and I need it to send from the BT curve but cannot figure out where that setting needs to be changed in order to make it follow the correct curve.
 
MaKoMo
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 07/26/2024 11:17 AM
This is kind of a bug that the Input source popup is hidden in the current Artisan version. While for the external MODBUS PID Artisan cannot control where the input is coming from, Artisan uses the channel selected under INPUT also to decide where to take the SV in follow-mode from. Next release, to appear quite soon, will show that Input source selector again. Sorry.
 
vbuys
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 07/26/2024 1:57 PM

Quote

MaKoMo wrote:

This is kind of a bug that the Input source popup is hidden in the current Artisan version. While for the external MODBUS PID Artisan cannot control where the input is coming from, Artisan uses the channel selected under INPUT also to decide where to take the SV in follow-mode from. Next release, to appear quite soon, will show that Input source selector again. Sorry.


Thanks! I had some time to do a bunch of troubleshooting last night. I tried nearly every combination I could think of and was able to make some observations.

If Meter -> MODBUS is selected in the ET/BT tab of Devices, the TC4 outputs wont work and I believe the 4 TC ports won't return a value.

IF TC4 is selected, but BT Channel is "None" the Control will default to ET, because it believes there is no BT channel, even though I have used symbolic assignment to pull BT from MODBUS

IF, however, I select TC4, and set BT to 1 and then overwrite it with symbolic assignment mapped to MODBUS chan 1, AND go into the *.aset file and manually change (sorry) pidSource to "1", that seems to have fixed things, at least on the software side.

When I test ran a background roast, not connected to the machine, SV is now tracking my BT curve. I'm hoping to get a chance to try it on the machine tonight and verify that it works in the real world.


I appreciate all the effort that has gone into creating Artisan. It's 1000x more difficult to create software that works for any number of various options and configurations than one that is tailor made for a particular machine.
 
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