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Help and recommendations for building an indoor propane burner
primarist
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Posted on 08/02/2024 1:53 PM
I'd like to get some opinions and recommendations for how I might (safely) build an indoor propane burner for my coffee roasting. I know there are many of you who have done this with great success but sadly there isn't much clear information or guides on how to go about doing this. On the contrary, the number of conflicting opinions on this topic is honestly astounding. I consider myself a pretty adept DIY'er and safety-minded person, but the amount of hyperbole on the internet about propane burners is unreal. Because of this, it has been terribly hard for me, a person who is approaching the topic in good faith, to sift the beans from the chaff.

I currently have a Kaldi fortis, which I was previously using with a cheap 12,000 BTU camp stove before it broke. This camp stove posed a few issues that inspired this whole idea of building my own burner. Firstly, it was never really powerful enough to overcome the thermal mass of the Kaldi and couldn't provide enough flame to feel responsive. Secondly, it was structurally not adequate to support the (quite heavy) Kaldi unit, and I was always concerned with the cheap sheet metal collapsing, sending the 400 degree roaster crashing to the floor.

So here is what I'm proposing. I would love a low pressure burner that I could build into a stainless steel worktop-cart, with a needle valve for gas control, a low pressure gauge for monitoring pressure, and a cutoff valve at the regulator. I could either feed this burner with the small green camp cylinders or, with a 10ft length of hose, from a 20lb tank stored outside. Does this idea sound totally insane? Like I mentioned, I've done hours of internet research and really come up with two prevailing opinions: "you're totally fine, go for it" and "save your family the trouble and sign your own death warrant."

My outstanding questions are:

1) What is the maximum BTU low-pressure burner that I can safely use indoors? I plan to use this in conjunction with a CO and volatile gas alarm and it will be in a well ventilated room, likely with the windows open. I am very reluctant to believe that it is never safe to use propane indoors, like some claim, as I grew up in a house where yearly we would cook Thanksgiving dinner on a propane range and oven running full bore for 12 hours with no issue lol.

2) What kind of fittings, thread tape, and hoses can I definitively use? I have found forum threads claiming that threaded brass fittings are fine, that brass fittings are a deathtrap and to only trust crimp fittings, that yellow teflon tape is gas-rated, that its not, etc etc. I would love clear answers on this.

3) What would be the most effective way to measure pressure in this setup, and what order should the gas line parts be placed in? I understand there is some difficulty measuring low pressure gases and there is a difference between measuring backpressure and flow. What kind of instrument would be suited to this? Also I plan on having two valves in this system, one rough valve at the tank regulator, and a finer needle valve on the control panel. Would the gauge go between these valves? After the needle valve?

4) What are the differences between running this setup on the small green cylinders versus a larger 20lb tank? Other than the obvious that the smaller cylinders will be used up much faster, is there any fundamental safety or practical reason to prefer one over the other? If I were to use a larger tank, it would be placed outside on the porch with a longer hose snaked under the door, but it would be nice to have the option to use the smaller tanks as well.

Lastly, if any of you generous souls have experience doing this and would actually like to help me plan this out and select the appropriate fittings and parts, I would be deeply in your debt. Seriously though, I've done a lot of DIY and this topic has been beyond confusing for me and any help or encouragement would be appreciated. I truly would love to learn and don't want to just barrel through with zero consideration, but I do have an objective here that I think is reasonable. Thanks for reading this far and for the advice!

EDIT: I reread this and realized I was letting my frustration come through a lot, sorry if it reads a little ranty! I just really want to roast again and the internet has been making this project harder instead of easier.
Edited by primarist on 08/02/2024 2:08 PM
Roaster: Kaldi Fortis
Grinder: 1zpresso JX / Rancilio Rocky
Brew Method: Aeropress / Moccamaster

I love coffee, but roast a lot of charcoal bbq
 
HarryDog
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Posted on 08/02/2024 7:17 PM
I have seen propane furnace in a house, propane piped in so they must have fittings.
I don't remember a propane stove but a range hood vented out like for natural gas might be a good ventilation option. I would use a turkey fry burner over the cheap stove.

If I was to make a burner I would try something like this.

https://www.amazo...d6fab3a352

I'm no help at putting it inside but in a garage yeah.
 
allenb
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 08/04/2024 2:41 PM
I'd like to get some opinions and recommendations for how I might (safely) build an indoor propane burner for my coffee roasting.

Just as you will never find anyone or any institution giving advice for constructing a "safe" indoor propane bbq grill, you won't find advice for a safe indoor use coffee roaster propane burner. Even though you could construct one using close to the same burners, plumbing and safety cutouts, without it being vetted by the proper testing/approving authorities and getting a stamp of approval, it might or might not be safe. Most of us in the DIY community know that our home brew burners are only safe if we monitor it continually and ensure it doesn't get out of line. Even then, there's always the possibility that something could go wrong and explode on us if we make a wrong move.

I currently have a Kaldi fortis, which I was previously using with a cheap 12,000 BTU camp stove before it broke. This camp stove posed a few issues that inspired this whole idea of building my own burner. Firstly, it was never really powerful enough to overcome the thermal mass of the Kaldi and couldn't provide enough flame to feel responsive. Secondly, it was structurally not adequate to support the (quite heavy) Kaldi unit, and I was always concerned with the cheap sheet metal collapsing, sending the 400 degree roaster crashing to the floor.

I noticed one or maybe more good threads on your roaster on Home Barista that show a particular counter style propane burner that the roaster sets on and provides plenty of BTUs (more than 12kbtu). I would check those and other threads to zero in on what burner they are using and purchase that one. Then, you will have most of the parts/pieces needed to disassemble and recreate into your custom worktop-cart without having to design a custom burner from the ground up which will usually require lots of time and $ to end up with a successful unit.

On pressure gauge, if low pressure propane, use the 0-15" water column gauges in a dial pressure gauge like this https://www.amazo...mp;sr=8-19
Unfortunately, there are literally hundreds of possible hose/fittings/connectors out there for connecting the burner parts together and will be decided by what particular burner you purchase as well as what regulator and needle valve you choose. What many of us end up doing is to utilize a burner vendor and put them to work on selecting the items you'll need to hook it up. Without that, it's usually a very frustrating chore with lots of disappointments.

On whether to use 1lb propane bottle versus 20 lb? Definitely go with the 20 lbr for a 1lb roaster otherwise, you will experience flameouts in the middle of lots of roasts when it empties. But, be sure to thoroughly investigate local codes and your insurance carrier to determine what is allowed inside a garage or residence. It's usually frowned upon to use a propane tank inside a home for obvious reasons.

On the fittings question, I use whatever is available, brass, copper, iron white teflon/yellow won't really matter. Now, if you're going to be selling a completed roaster, there are small differences in how long one material will last versus another when running propane or natural gas through them but for the number of hours we homeroasters have our roaster powered up, any metal and any pipe thread sealing tape will outlive most people.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
primarist
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 08/05/2024 11:14 AM
Thanks for the replies everyone. One thing I notice is that, while there are some amazing build threads on these forums, usually they don't go into *quite* enough detail to actually replicate what they did. So we're left with guessing precisely how they built their setup and maybe leaving out some critical step that wasn't mentioned, which is enough to plant the seed of doubt.

I actually cross posted this over on the Home Barista forums to get some more responses, so you may see my thread over there too!

allenb, on your point about dissecting a countertop burner, I would actually worry that would be less safe than building a burner from the ground up. Often those burners are cheap, Chinese made, units that do work fine for really simple applications (I use one for car camping), they are not designed to be serviceable at all. Tampering around in them would almost definitely invite breaking some non-serviceable component, leading to a leak, or at best a broken burner unit.

The Kaldi Fortis, if I had to guess, weighs about 40 lbs dry. When set on top, the trivet of the old camp-stove style unit I used to use would flex and bend under the weight. It does look like lots of people use a "cajun burner" style unit for their Fortis, which is built out of angle iron and is much more sturdy, however we're kind of back to square one with this. If I were to use that burner, I'd be constructing my own gas line/regulator anyways (since it doesn't come with one) and I'd still have to use bottled propane indoors.

What's also too bad is that even though I'd be willing to pay a professional to build something for me, no one seems to be willing or able to do it! On the one hand, I get it for liability reasons, but on the other hand, I really don't get it. I have to imagine that given the fact that (1) there are many many homes out there that run on propane (my family home for one) and (2) there a propane professionals (paging Hank Hill) that regularly install and plumb propane into custom homes, that I *could* theoretically have this thing built. But its seems everyone I call says that its literally "impossible." I'm not sure how, at least for the burner unit itself, this is any different from having a custom gas range plumbed into a kitchen.

I guess it would also be useful to do a poll... How many of you roast indoors vs outdoors vs semi-outdoors (e.g. in an open garage or porch)?
Roaster: Kaldi Fortis
Grinder: 1zpresso JX / Rancilio Rocky
Brew Method: Aeropress / Moccamaster

I love coffee, but roast a lot of charcoal bbq
 
renatoa
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 08/05/2024 11:42 AM
The new black is to go electric...
Reasons? It seems you listed enough above... Shock
And you forgot the carbon footprint Grin
 
primarist
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 08/05/2024 1:59 PM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

The new black is to go electric...
Reasons? It seems you listed enough above... Shock
And you forgot the carbon footprint Grin



As slick at the Allio Bullet is, with tax and shipping, it's coming in at just under $4000 nowadays, which is a pretty major expense given the fact that I already have a perfectly good propane roaster that I already paid $2000 for haha.
Roaster: Kaldi Fortis
Grinder: 1zpresso JX / Rancilio Rocky
Brew Method: Aeropress / Moccamaster

I love coffee, but roast a lot of charcoal bbq
 
renatoa
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 08/06/2024 2:26 AM
Who say to buy one ?! Grin
 
allenb
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 08/09/2024 7:47 PM

Quote

allenb, on your point about dissecting a countertop burner, I would actually worry that would be less safe than building a burner from the ground up. Often those burners are cheap, Chinese made, units that do work fine for really simple applications (I use one for car camping), they are not designed to be serviceable at all. Tampering around in them would almost definitely invite breaking some non-serviceable component, leading to a leak, or at best a broken burner unit.


Unfortunately, in regards to building ones own burner, unless one has design experience, it can be difficult to nail down the correct venturi that allows a burner to burn efficiently and stay lit while going from very low fire up to high fire rates.

For my 1 lb gas fired fluidbed roaster, I utilized a small camp stove propane burner. For me to be able to install a suitable needle valve, I had to cut the hose at the inlet end and use a barbed brass fitting to adapt to the needle valve I wanted to use. Working with all of these various burners requires one to design their own work around for that particular burner. Even if someone lists what burner and connecting parts they used, it may not be possible with newer versions of the same burner.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
JETROASTER
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 08/19/2024 12:23 PM
Hello, I haven't been around HR much lately, just checked in and saw your plight.
I've been roasting w/ propane for a couple decades. I only do it in a warehouse, but I could see where the right garage could work. That has less to do with the fuel source, and more to do with the 10lb batches. Coffee/chaff fires can be...unruly.
Right upfront, I would be curious about how large a batch you'd like to roast?
Have fun- Scott
 
JETROASTER
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Posted on 08/20/2024 8:48 AM
Ooops. My bad. This is all about the Kaldi. There is a pretty wide selection of outdoor grill burners available. You could use more than one to help deal with the thermal mass. A sort of 'boost' burner, just for warm up, then fall back to the main burner for more subtle control. I can't imagine that a homemade burner is needed unless you need to go pressurized.
A sturdy support for the roaster could be fashioned from refractory brick/cement.
Cheers-Scott
 
allenb
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2024 11:49 AM

Quote

JETROASTER wrote:

Ooops. My bad. This is all about the Kaldi. There is a pretty wide selection of outdoor grill burners available. You could use more than one to help deal with the thermal mass. A sort of 'boost' burner, just for warm up, then fall back to the main burner for more subtle control. I can't imagine that a homemade burner is needed unless you need to go pressurized.
A sturdy support for the roaster could be fashioned from refractory brick/cement.
Cheers-Scott


Howdy Scott and good to hear from you! Great ideas on the burner issue on a Kaldi.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
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