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03/04/2024 3:55 AM
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In Memory Of Ginny
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March 2010 roast comparison and tasting bean swap.
endlesscycles
I'm posting my notes. I feel awkward having reviewed my own roasts more positively than others, but I feel fair in doing so as the cupping was blind to the finish.

a: 12 grams, roasted to a full city. Some oil on surface of beans. Darkest of all roasts. Dry fragrance was kitty litter (-3), wet aroma was musty shoes(-3), ash tray at the break(-2). Cup was culled without further evaluation.
John Despress
Roast notes: yellow at 7:00, 1st at 12:10, finished at 15:40
(7:00 / 5:10 / 3:30)

b: 9grams, city plus. Light and even roast, but came crushed. Dry fragrance was fruit juice (2.5), wet aroma was light juice (1.5), break bright with strawberries (2.5). Cup had good juice flavor, moderate sweetness, and a light body. There was an off flavor present in the finish, a slight ashy hint perhaps some staling.
Gene Counts
Roast notes: yellow?(guess) at 5:00, first at 13:11, finished at 14:45
(5:00 / 8:11 / 2:34)

c: 13 grams, city roast. Very light with some evidence of tipping. Dry fragrance was deep toned (1), wet aroma was floral and bright (2), the break contained current notes and exhibited juiciness (2.5). The cup was very sweet with a mild body. Bright ripe juice flavors and a hint of tea finishing with a slight astringency. Third favorite
Marshall Hance
Roast notes: yellow at 5:00 310F, 1st at 7:30 375F, finished at 10:15 420F
(5:00 / 2:30 / 2:45)

d: 12 grams, city roast. Light and even, slight tipping evident. Lightest of all roasts. Dry fragrance was mild and nice (2), wet aroma was juicy and awesome (3), break was complexly layered with caramel, fruit, and chocolate powder (3). Cup was sweet, with lively strawberry juice acidity and a dry finish. Favorite overall.
Marshall Hance (non-submitted sample)
Roast notes: yellow at 4:45 300F, 1st at 7:15, 375F, finished at 10:15 420F
(4:45 / 2:30 / 3:00)

e: 13 grams, city roast. A very even roast, came crushed. Dry fragrance was exceptionally bright (3+), nice wet aroma (2), and some fruit at break. (2). The cup was smooth and sweet with a mulled wine acidity. Second favorite, exceptionally good.
Randy Tsuchiyama
Roast notes: yellow at ?, 1st at 9:50, finished at 14:10
(? / ? / 4:20)

f: 12 grams, city roast. Very nice looking, but a hint of tipping. Dry fragrance was muted (1), wet aroma had slight fruit (1), the break was mild (1). The cup was flat and mild.
Chad Bueford

g: 13g city plus roast. Nice looking roast, though there was some evidence of scorching. Dry fragrance was muted (1), wet aroma was very quiet (1), and had a mild break (1). The cup was very similar to f, but slightly brighter.
William Welch
-Marshall Hance
Asheville, NC
 
ginny
John:

how do you get into this action??

gShock
 
John Despres

Quote

ginny wrote:
John:

how do you get into this action??

gShock


You're a little late for this one, but there will be another. Hang in there, Tootsie-Pop! Keep your eyes open for the next one.

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
John Despres
And here are my results - I blind cupped them with my own submission in the group.
Listed below in order of finish ? Scored on a 1 to 5 ranking. I didn?t bother with regional distinction or cupper?s correction.

Tim?s was destroyed by the mail and Marshall?s didn?t arrive in time, so here are the six I cupped.

Gene
Dry grounds fragrance 4 ? Very sweet
Wet grounds aroma 4 ? sweet mild chocolate
Body/mouthfeel 4
Acidity 2
Complexity 3
Depth 4
Sweetness 3
Balance 4
Total 28
Notes: somewhat uneven roast, city +, slight oils showing

Wayne
Dry grounds fragrance 4 ? Sweet & winey
Wet grounds aroma 3 -
Body/mouthfeel 4
Acidity 2
Complexity 4
Depth 4
Sweetness 3
Balance 3
Total 27
Notes: Fairly even roast, city, no oils showing

Bill
Dry grounds fragrance 3 - Sweet
Wet grounds aroma 5 ? lovely chocolate, sweet
Body/mouthfeel 3
Acidity 0
Complexity 3
Depth 3
Sweetness 4
Balance 3
Total 24
Notes: Pretty even roast, City +, a little oil showing

Randy
Dry grounds fragrance 3 ? Rich, full
Wet grounds aroma 4 ? Nice chocolate
Body/mouthfeel 3
Acidity 0
Complexity3
Depth 3
Sweetness 3
Balance 3
Total 22
Notes: Somewhat uneven roast, City, no oils showing

CHAD
Dry grounds fragrance 3 ? Mildly sweet but a little flat
Wet grounds aroma 3 -
Body/mouthfeel 3
Acidity 2
Complexity 3
Depth 2
Sweetness 3
Balance 2
Total 21
Notes: Fairly even roast, City, no oils showing

John
Dry grounds fragrance 2 ? No distinctions
Wet grounds aroma 3 ? Bitter chocolate
Body/mouthfeel 3
Acidity 1
Complexity 3
Depth 2
Sweetness 1
Balance 3
Total 18
Notes: Fairly even roast, Full city, lots of oils showing

Interestingly, I found very little acidity in any of them. From the beginning, I had problems with this coffee and couldn?t seem to get a handle on it and it seems to show in my own cupping? Prior to my submission and after, I?ve not come to terms with this one. Ugh.

Based on my own results combined with Marshall's, I have a feeling I'm in for a licking on this one. Bring it!

:|

John

Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
randytsuch

Quote

ginny wrote:
John:

how do you get into this action??

gShock


You missed this one. We all bought some green from Marshall (endlesscycles) earlier this month, spent some time playing roasting them, and then exchanged about 10-15 grams of beans with each other, sent out last Monday.

Marshall
I'm flattered by your review.
I just finished my writeup, I'll post it later, so I felt OK to read your review. I'll comment more when the others have said they have finished their cupping review (except for bvwelch, who is traveling)

BTW, I did not cup Wayne's yet, because it came yesterday in the mail, after I had finished cupping. I am off on vacation for a few days, and will cup it when I get back.

Randy
 
seedlings
Process: I weighed 8g of coffee from an envelope onto a plate, then placed the envelope on top. Once I did the same with the rest of the samples, I told my wife to put a the same letter on each envelope/plate combo, then put all the envelopes away, leaving 8 lettered plates with coffee beans. I washed our little dust-buster and used it to clear out the chute between grind samples. I ground A, placed it in a cup, vacuumed the grinder, then repeated for each offering. All the while water was coming to boil on the stove. Once all cups had grounds, I put the water to high until it started swirling (but not bubble rolling), then poured 5oz to each cup A through H, and a spoon cleaning cup. Set the timer for only 3 minutes because after I ground the first coffee, I wished I'd made it a bit coarser, but left the grinder set and adjusted brew time to compensate. At the 3:00 mark, I broke crust and sniffed each coffee A-H, and wrote a short note. Then I went back to A and slurped, cleaned the spoon, sipped some cold water, then went to B. After going through all the coffees I went back and started taking notes. I'd sip A, then E, then back to A to see which I liked better, and so on.

Beans: I didn't inspect the beans until after cupping. I would say all beans are in a close range of roast between City+ and Full City. On the lighter end was Marshall, Wayne and Randy. Bill, Gene and myself were in the middle, with Tim's ever so slightly darker. John's was just a touch darker still and was the only coffee I noticed oil droplets. I didn't find anything but very light signs of tipping on any of the roasts.

Grounds: I think this particular Ethiopian always smells better than it tastes. There wasn't much variation in the grind aromas to me except for some smokines with Tim's.

Break Crust/Aroma: This is where I could begin to tell differneces form one offering to the next. Marshall, Gene, Bill and Mine were close enough to call the same: general berry aroma (0). Wayne's added distinct blueberry, and I gave it the nod for 1st here (+1). Randy's had a the berry, but added a baking bread aroma - tied with John's "dark berry" (-1). Tim's smelled heavily of smoke (-2).

Taste: I call the general flavor profile for this coffee "earthy berry," and Gene's (6.5) roast was a nice example. Slight sweetness, medium-light body, lingering earth. Marshall (7) pulled out a little more sweetness, and Randy (7.5) added some brownie to go over the top. Gene (6) was similar, but a little flat or baked. Bill (5.5) lost some of the sweetness and leaned slightly dark/bitter. Mine (4.5) added smoke over the top of the general profile. The samples from Tim (4) and John (4) had dominant smoky notes.

These numbers are NOT based on a formula. I just wanted to give an idea of how close or far apart each entry was.

E 88.0 Randy
A 87.5 Marshall
C 87.0 Gene
G 86.0 Bill
B 85.5 Wayne
H 83.0 Chad
F 81.5 John
D 80.0 Tim

The letters correspond to my wife's scheme, and were arranged alphabetically with A on my far right, through H on my far left.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
camper
I used the coffee rating sheet used by Tom at Sweet Maria's. The following numerical values were used: Dry Aroma, Wet Aroma, & Body were scored 1-5; Acidity, Flavour & Finish were scored 1-10; then 50 points were added to each sample to get the total score.

The following is how I scored the 7 samples:
John
Dry Aroma 4
Wet Aroma 3
Acidity 8
Body 4.5
Flavour 8
Finish 8.5
Add 50
Total 86

Wayne
Dry Aroma 4.5
Wet Aroma 3.5
Acidity 7
Body 4.5
Flavour 8
Finish 8
Add 50
Total 85.5

Bill
Dry Aroma 3
Wet Aroma 3
Acidity 8
Body 4.5
Flavour 8
Finish 8
Add 50
Total 84.5

Chad
Dry Aroma 4.5
Wet Aroma 3
Acidity 7
Body 4
Flavour 8
Finish 8
Add 50
Total 84.5

Gene
Dry Aroma 4
Wet Aroma 3.5
Acidity 7
Body 3
Flavour 7
Finish 8
Add 50
Total 82.5

Randy
Dry Aroma 4
Wet Aroma 3.5
Acidity 5
Body 3
Flavour 7
Finish 5
Add 50
Total 77.5

Marshall
Dry Aroma 3
Wet Aroma 2
Acidity 7
Body 3
Flavour 6
Finish 5
Add 50
Total 76

I prefer french roast coffee & I thought John's roast tasted best.
I received coffee beans in excellent condition from John, Bill, Chad, Randy & Marshall. Gene's sample arrived with a small slit in the edge of the envelope & most of the beans crushed.
 
gene
Been a long day. Its on verge of darkness and I have been outside trying to do a batch ot Tom's Monkey Blend. Right on very edge of 2nd crack. Just beginning to smoke twice before cooling.

At one PM today here comes Judy from mailbox. I had everything laid out for cupping. I was trying to get new grinder dialed in or I would have been finished. "You have another bulky envelope".
Seems I now have everyone but Wayne? Used CG suggestions on cupping. Judy had numbered cups and envelopes earlier so I wouldn't be prejudiced. It seems John and Bill had the darkest roasts. Marshall the lightest.

This is one of hardest things I have attempted in awhile. Next time won't take two days! Here goes:

Randy
Aroma. Dry 8 Muted berry
Aroma, Wet 9 definite blueberry
Acidity 7
Mouthfeel 8
Flavor 8
Aftertaste 7
Add 50
Total 97

Marshall
Aroma. Dry 9 Winey and hints of berry
Aroma, Wet 8 Complex, seems to have maybe choc and wine
Acidity 7
Mouthfeel 7
Flavor 8
Aftertaste 7
Add 50
Total 96

Bill
Aroma. Dry 8 Faint Choc
Aroma, Wet 8 muted choc
Acidity 7
Mouthfeel 7
Flavor 7
Aftertaste 7
Add 50
Total 94

John
Aroma. Dry 8 Dark bitter choc, yet sweet
Aroma, Wet 7 definite choc aroma
Acidity 7
Mouthfeel 7 choc
Flavor 7
Aftertaste 7
Add 50
Total 93


Tim
Aroma. Dry 8 berry
Aroma, Wet 7 very muted
Acidity 7
Mouthfeel 6
Flavor 6
Aftertaste 7
Add 50
Total 91

Chad
Aroma. Dry 7 Faint berry?
Aroma, Wet 6 faded, can?t tell
Acidity 7
Mouthfeel 6
Flavor 6
Aftertaste 6
Add 50
Total 88

Gene
Aroma. Dry 7
Aroma, Wet 6
Acidity 7
Mouthfeel 5
Flavor 6
Aftertaste 5
Add 50
Total 86

We definitely need our bad Girlz next time, Ginny and Milknmycoffee et al!
 
camper
Now that we have had the maiden voyage, what is next?
We are almost into April.
Are we going to stay with the everyone gets the same beans or are we;) going to another format?
 
Hamilton
Here are my notes. I used the formula John detailed in the other thread in this forum. In order of tasting:

Chad
dry grounds 3 fruity, berries, slightly ashy?
wet grounds 3
body 2
acidity 1
complexity 2
depth 3
sweetness 1
balance 3
total: 18

Gene
dry grounds 2
wet grounds 2
body 1
acidity 3 slightly more acid than most other roasts. pleasant
complexity 2
depth 2
sweetness 1
balance 3
total: 17

Bill
dry grounds 4 lots of fruit and berries
wet grounds 4 fruity, almost citrusy. piney?
body 3
acidity 2
complexity 3
depth 2
sweetness 1
balance 3
total: 22

John
dry grounds 2 not a lot of berry. mild
wet grounds 1 slightly ashy
body 1
acidity 1
complexity 2
depth 2
sweetness 1
balance 2
total: 12

Randy
dry grounds 5 very powerful, clean berry aroma. very nice
wet grounds 4
body 3
acidity 2
complexity 4
depth 3
sweetness 2
balance 3 this is a very good cup
Total: 26

Marshall
dry grounds 4 blueberry
wet grounds 3 berry persists. slightly bready
body 2
acidity 3 pleasant amount of acidity.
complexity 4
depth 4
sweetness 3
balance 4
total: 27

Marshall's was my clear favorite. Randy's beans showed up mostly smashed but still cupped very well. His was an excellent second, IMO. Overall I seemed to prefer the lighter roasts, which is not surprising for an Ethiopian, I guess.
Tim
 
Hamilton
And the notes on my roast: 300F @ 3:45, 1C @ 8:50 (435F), finish @ 11:50. This was done in a RoasterRob style air roaster



I'm also just now realizing I did not get an entry from Wayne.
Sorry, Wayne.
Edited by Hamilton on 03/30/2010 11:43 PM
Tim
 
randytsuch
Sorry for the delay in posting my review, I just got back from a short vacation, we left on Sunday, and the hotel was charging for internet, so I did not post it from there.

But, here it is.

All coffee was ground in my Vario, then measured to 7 grams with my scale. I would run my Vario for about ? second when I put a new bean in, to purge it between beans. Then I ran it for about 4 seconds, weighed and got 7 grams in a yogurt cup. Dumped contents of yogurt cup in a coffee mug.

I did the cuppings in two batches of 4 each. I actually was missing one, but I had enough of one roast (20 grams), to divide it into two, so I could use that one in both cuppings. That worked out, it gave me a standard to compare the first and 2nd cuppings.

I used about 5 oz of boiling water, with the 7 grams of coffee. The cuppings were blind, I had put the number of each roast on the bottom (good suggestion Marshall), and then dumped the ground coffee in each mug. When all mugs were ready, I closed my eyes and mixed them up.

In the first cupping were contestants Gene, John D, Chad/Seedlings and bvwelch. I had enough of bvwelch?s roast so he was in both cuppings, 2nd cupping was everyone else.

I attempted to smell the coffee as a bean, after grinding, and after adding water. I also smelled after breaking the crust, but I couldn?t tell the difference between adding water and breaking crust, so I didn?t make notes on the breaking crust smell.

Before I give you my ratings, let me say that I was probably biased against the darker roasts. I did all my roasts pretty lightly, and had gotten used to lighter roasts when I cupped my trials.

Scores and ratings were my own system, based on 1-10 for aroma, and 1-10 for taste. I had a hard time finding any difference in body or acidity, so I did not rate those in my scores.

Ratings
17 = Marshall/endlesscycles
16.5 = Gene
15 = William Welch/ bvwelch
15 = RandyTsuch
14 = Chad/Seedlings
13.5 = John D.
13.5 = Tim/Hamilton

Scores
Marshall
Smell = 7
Taste = 9
Most complex taste, sweet, fruity. Best of the bunch.

Gene
Smell = 7
Taste = 8.5
Sweet, Fruity taste. Did not directly compare with Marshall, but I think Marshall?s was more complex, and also had more flavor/stronger taste.

William Welch
Smell = 7
Taste = 8
Not quite as much flavor as Gene?s, or mine (this was blind), but I liked the taste. Fruit/citrus.

Randytsuch
Smell = 6.5
Not as much aroma as the others
Taste = 8.5
More flavor then Bill?s, but Marshall?s was better. Did not compare directly to Gene?s, but I think they would have been close.

Seedlings
Smell = 7
Taste = 7
Not as much flavor is bvwelch or Gene, but did have a nice, fruity flavor.

John D
Smell = 7
Taste = 6.5
Here is where my bias against dark may have occurred. John and Tim had the darkest roasts. I think this would make a nice drip of dark, and I am going to try roasting this bean darker, for making drip and maybe an espresso blend with. But, I think it did not have as much taste as the others, and I think I was tasting the roast more then the bean.

Hamliton
Smell = 7
Taste = 6.5
Basically same comments as for John.

Next time, I will try to use the more complex, standard cupping rating system, but this was what I could do this time.

Randy
 
bvwelch
I regret to report that mostly, what I received from the post office today, was crushed, stale coffee. I did my best to try and pick out the best whole beans, but very few had sufficient available.

I'll go ahead and give my blind cupping report, but unless you're curious about stale coffee, it is doubtful that you'll find anything new here.

Ranking: None: random order as arranged by my wife.

bvwelch: Dry: pleasant chocoate, Wet: faint spice, berry/floral when stirred. Taste: good flavor

John: Dry: nice chocolate. Wet: floral when stirred. Taste: dark roast taste, nice mouthfeel

Wayne: Dry: pleasant chocolate, Wet: faint spice. Taste: good flavor, slightly grain/green.

Gene: Dry: mild, pleasing. Wet: faint spice, Taste: good taste, slightly off aftertaste

Chad: Dry: nice chocolate, Wet: mild spices, Taste: good tasting coffee

Marshall: Dry: pleasant, Wet: spice, Taste: tart

Randy: Dry: pleasant choc, Wet: spice, Taste: good tasting coffee


Thanks for all of your time and effort. We'll figure out a better shipping process next time.
Edited by bvwelch on 03/31/2010 4:28 PM
 
randytsuch
I'll take some/all of the blame for the shipping problems. I didn't think about crushed beans when I suggested just putting the beans in an envelope, and sending them in the mail.

But, based on what I received, Chad's method worked pretty well, taping the ziplock to a piece of paper got his beans to me intact.

We could go for padded envelopes next time, that should protect the beans better, and would also keep the post office from sticking the beans in the automatic sorting machings.

Randy
 
randytsuch
For anyone interested, here is some info for the beans I sent out for this comparison.

I created a "drop" page with a graph of Bean Temp, Env temp and ET-BT for the beans I submitted here
http://drop.io/rt...march_2010

There are also two excel files.
One is small, and has the PID profile information. The PID controls ET in me setup. I measure BT with a probe at the top of the beans.
The other file is larger, and has the source data for the graph, along with tabs for the graphs.

I ended up creating 4 different profiles in my PID when trying different roasts for this bean. I did not like the cups from the first two as much, they were slower roasts. The 3rd and 4th profiles were better, the 3rd cupped the best.

However, when I tried to recreate my best roast, I had trouble. I did two roasts that I threw away, they were slower then what I was shooting for.
I ended up using the 4th profile, which was faster then the 3rd profile, and used air flow to slow it down, to make it closer to the what I was shooting for.

I ramped up the temp to first crack, but after first crack I maintained an almost flat ET. The goal was to have some time between first crack and the end of roast, while keeping a light roast. I was able to get about 3.5 minutes from middle of first crack until I stopped the roast.

Not sure if this data is helpfull to anyone else, but I have it, so I thought I would share it.

Randy

Edit: Made link useable
Edited by John Despres on 03/31/2010 8:37 PM
 
bvwelch
padded envelope sounds good.

John's vac-pac beans did pretty well, but the vacuum wasn't maintained.

trying to think of a somewhat rigid container that is light and cheap. DVD packaging maybe? We can re-cycle them. :-)

Shall we try the Rasin beans next? Or are we tired of DP beans?
 
bvwelch
I need help with cupping technique - very messy and I don't like choking on the grounds while trying to slurp. What's the secret? Otherwise I'll do pour-over drip with a cone filter next time.
 
seedlings

Quote

bvwelch wrote:
I need help with cupping technique - very messy and I don't like choking on the grounds while trying to slurp. What's the secret? Otherwise I'll do pour-over drip with a cone filter next time.


After you break the crust, repeatedly push the grounds down into the coffee with the back of a spoon (not stirring, just pushing down an inch), then go to the next cup and do the same. Finish all the cups then return to the first cup and skim the top with a spoon (or pair of spoons) and dump the grounds you find.. The bulk of grounds should stay at the bottom of the cup. You'll probably always have some grounds. If an excessive amount of grounds stays floating, perhaps the grind was too coarse.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
milknmycoffee
This has been very interesting and informative to watch from the sidelines. One thing I like is that everyone seemed to admit to any biases (such as a preference for dark or light roasts).

Everyone's notes were extremely clear and well organized. I doubt I could do such a good job being concise and clear!

Having had the opportunity to taste a version of Gene's roast (which I loved), it was fun to read the reviews of his roast.

As far as participating...hhhmm this badgirl feels outta her league. Might have to get a little more experience under my belt or a thicker skin LOL.

No seriously, another thing I noticed was the professionalism of the reviews. I think everyone was honest but also tactful :)
 
DavidG
I second everything MnMC said.. to the phrase.

The deference and respect shown among this community is second to none. I too really enjoyed watching and learning. I am not sure if I am ready to sit at the big kids table yet... :)

You all make it a pleasure to keep learning, and you all have a knack of making sure (gently) that there is always more to learn.

Godspeed,
David
europiccola | yama + coryrod | chemex | AP | clever
wbp1 | wepp1 | bm/hg | co hybrid (still coming soon...)
 
randytsuch
You guys (and girls) have been here longer then I have, you should give it a go the next time.

I wasn't sure if I would be able to tell a difference between roasts, but when you have a bunch of cups of coffee in front of you, sipping them with a spoon, the differences are there. I can't discern the suble flavors like others can, but I was at least able taste differences in the cups.

Plus, it was really educational to get the reviews from others here, who can taste the subtle flavors, and see what flavors they pick out of your roast, and they others roasts that you tasted.

That was the part that taught me the most.

Randy
 
randytsuch
What about the next one?

I guess we missed April now, but May is upon us.
I find I'm more motivated to optimize a roast if it's for something like this, so I'd like to do it again with a different bean.

I know the hard part is finding the green, and distributing it.

I would help distribute, but I don't know where to get a large quantity of green.

Randy
 
John Despres
I'll start up an April discussion.
John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
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